What is Mariology?

[face2face]

The Church took centuries formulating dogmatic definitions, usually to combat heresies. Just because a dogmatic definition has not been defined does not mean it was not held from the beginning. In the first few centuries the definitions were around God and Christ. Later other truth were dogmatically defined. By 1854 the Magisterium of the Church decided the time had come the dogmatically define this truth.

Justification for wrong teaching.
What you are saying is certain Scriptures which you hold to teach the immaculate conception have only been understood since 1854. Should read dogmatically define this error.

 

[face2face]

When Adam sinned his sin affected the whole human race.
Rom 5:12 . "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man [Adam] and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned"

In verses 15-19 Paul tells us the consequences
15. For if many died through one man's trespass………
16. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, ………….
17. If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, …………
18. Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men,………
19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,……

It is this effect on us of Adam's sin that we call original sin. It is not a sin we personally have committed but we suffer the effects.

Personal sins are those we personally commit. Do you need examples of that?

So this is simply saying that our inherited nature (one that dies) causes us to sin. I think rather than you use Scripture to force your misunderstanding why don't you define "original sin" as the RCC does, then we can place that along side the Scripture.

 

[face2face]

She was saved from the effects of original sin. That is why she needed a saviour; not because she personally sinned.

Okay so she did sin!

 

[Mungo]

What are the effects of original sin and show us in the Scripture this idea?

See post #452

 

[Mungo]

Justification for wrong teaching.

It's not wrong teaching

What you are saying is certain Scriptures which you hold to teach the immaculate conception have only been understood since 1854. Should read dogmatically define this error.

No I didn't say that. Please stop lying about what I say.

 

[Mungo]

So this is simply saying that our inherited nature (one that dies) causes us to sin. I think rather than you use Scripture to force your misunderstanding why don't you define "original sin" as the RCC does, then we can place that along side the Scripture.

I give scripture and you don't want scripture.
I give what the Catholic Church says and you want scripture.

Try to be more consistent.

 

[Mungo]

Okay so she did sin!

No she didn't sin.
Stop lying about what I say.

 

[theefaith]

What are the effects of original sin and show us in the Scripture this idea?

gen 3:16-19
Psalm 51:5
Rom 5:12

mary preserved

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity)

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)

Two ways of being savior, forgive sins: and to preserve us from sin:

Mary was preserved by God from sin!

 

[face2face]

No she didn't sin.
Stop lying about what I say.

You said she was saved from sin!
All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God therefore whether it be original or personal she still sinned.

 

[face2face]

I give scripture and you don't want scripture.
I give what the Catholic Church says and you want scripture.

Try to be more consistent.

To mean I can't provide Scripture to show your original v personal sin.

Okay.

 

[face2face]

It's not wrong teaching

No I didn't say that. Please stop lying about what I say.

So which Scriptures teach the immaculate conception of Mary?

 

[Mungo]

You said she was saved from sin!

I said (post #455)
"She was saved from the effects of original sin. That is why she needed a saviour; not because she personally sinned."

All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God therefore whether it be original or personal she still sinned.

That may be your personal opinion but I disagree.

 

[Mungo]

To mean I can't provide Scripture to show your original v personal sin.

That sentence doesn't make sense.

 

[Mungo]

So which Scriptures teach the immaculate conception of Mary?

Lk 1:28
Gen 3:15
Ps 93:5

 

[Mungo]

the Bible holds that ALL people are sinners with the exception of Jesus Christ.

Can you show me a Bible quote to prove that?

I'm still waiting for your reply

 

[Mungo]

You and I both know the Scripture is super clear she did..[sin]

Then perhaps you can quote some scriptures that say Mary sinned

I'm still waiting for your reply

 

[Mungo]

Can you explain the difference between Jesus being filled with the Spirit cmp to Mary?

Where have I said there is any "difference between Jesus being filled with the Spirit cmp to Mary"?

I'm still waiting for your reply

 

[theefaith]

Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

All graces come from the merits of Christ, from His passion and death and come thru Mary to the glory of Her only begotten Son!

 

[face2face]

Lk 1:28
Gen 3:15
Ps 93:5

Nothing there.
Take one verse and speak to it - start with Genesis 3:15; its a good one to start with.

 

[face2face]

I said (post #455)
"She was saved from the effects of original sin. That is why she needed a saviour; not because she personally sinned."
That may be your personal opinion but I disagree.

No - you said she was saved from sin therefore she must have sinned.