What is "OSAS"?

[Eternally Grateful]

I think when the five solas was declared anathema,cursed, by the RCC's Council of Trent, it was a deep dive into
vacating the truth of God in Christ and his Gospel.

It started when a pagan king made rome a pagan-christian nation and called it Catholic

 

[Shittim]

Hence the admonition about the "Great harlot that is in Rome" ?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

It started when a pagan king made rome a pagan-christian nation and called it Catholic

When the Solas were cursed by the Cost, I believe that was done so to insure the insulated primacy of the Romans church.
Faith alone? Acursed. Christ alone? Acursed. On and on, all acursed.

Now what?
You must have the church to lift the cursed and bring them together to work in unison under the guidance of holy Mother church. (Father God,Mother church)

There was a church before the RCC.

 

[Marymog]

I go where He tells me to go, and when I do He works through me to do His will. I see nothing in scripture indicating we are saved by church attendance. We are told to not forsake worshiping together in His name. Most churches I am aware of don't invite His presence, they only talk about Him for an hour or so. This is FAR from the church described in Acts.

Thanks, Shittin,

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I am going to say what I think you are saying so I better understand:

You do go to a building that people call church. Those buildings that you go to are the ones He tells you to go to. When you go to those buildings He works through you to do His will.

Is that a fair summary of what you are saying?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

She has NO need for confession.
YOU misrepresented what I said by implying in that I said we were saved by grace FROM the Church.

That's NOT what I said.

Well, I wonder if @Eternally Grateful would you like to confess and admit she was wrong? Time will tell.....

 

[mailmandan]

Hey Mailmandan,

What is your answer to Paul's questions: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

How do you interpret these words from Paul: Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

Looking forward to you interpretation.........Mary

The obvious answer to Paul's question is YES. 1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death.

The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death or soul sleep. (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4)

How about a little context. In 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, Paul said - Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry, and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

The Corinthians’ communion services had become corrupted with selfishness, drunkenness, and discrimination against those who have nothing. They were not honoring the Lord.

 

[Marymog]

You keep referring to the his flesh and blood. what about the rest of the passage, the bread of Life.

Also. even if we stick to the flesh and blood

Jesus said: 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

He did not say may have eternal life. he said they do.

He did not say he might raise them up the last day, He said he would

6 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

He did not say he who keeps feeding on him, He said whoever feeds on him will live as he lives because of him,

He also said they will live forever.

Ah EG, I THINK I see what you are saying. Catholics believe what Jesus said when he held up the bread/wine and said this is my body/blood. We say YES to Paul's questions in 1 Corinthians 10:16. However, not all Catholics (and some Protestants who believe it is His body/blood) end up living forever and having eternal life (go to heaven) even though they partook of the bread/wine every Sunday for their entire life.

Is that what you are saying?

Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, I wonder if @Eternally Grateful would you like to confess and admit she was wrong? Time will tell.....

She? lol. You can't even get that right

And you still have not admitted you were wrong when you falsley accused me.

Its ok. I have learned along time ago. I do not expect you to admit error. Like you think your church is, you have no error.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The obvious answer to Paul's question is YES. 1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world. Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death.

The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death or soul sleep. (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4)

How about a little context. In 1 Corinthians 11:20-22, Paul said - Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry, and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.

The Corinthians’ communion services had become corrupted with selfishness, drunkenness, and discrimination against those who have nothing. They were not honoring the Lord.

Notice,

It was not some ceremony where a priest puts a wafer in your mouth, and you take a sip of the cup

They were meeting and eating It was a meal. Just like the lords supper in the upper room was a meal.

Sadly. SO many churches get this tradition so wrong

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ah EG, I THINK I see what you are saying. Catholics believe what Jesus said when he held up the bread/wine and said this is my body/blood. We say YES to Paul's questions in 1 Corinthians 10:16. However, not all Catholics (and some Protestants who believe it is His body/blood) end up living forever and having eternal life (go to heaven) even though they partook of the bread/wine every Sunday for their entire life.

Is that what you are saying?

Mary

Ah Mary, I think I know what your doing

Jesus said whoever eats will never Hunger, Never thirst, Live forever. Never die, Never lost, And be raised on the last day and has eternal life

Catholics think we have to eat often, and even then, we are not assured we will receive any of these things Jesus said they WILL (not might) GET

And as we see. Mary will not even comment on what Jesus said in John 6. She ignores it.. Of course everyone here knows why

 

[Marymog]

Jesus did NOY say whoever ate would recieve those things.

Well, yes he did and YOU previously quoted those passages:

John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—He who eats this bread will live forever.”

And he did not tell us how to do it.

Ummm....Several months after He told us in John 6 that he is the bread of life and that we MUST eat him he showed us how to do it: as they were eating, Jesus took bread, ......gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

He told us we must eat his body and then several months later he showed us how to do it. At the time some of the Jews didn't believe him and they walked away. They are non-believers. WE say yes to Paul; the bread IS a participation in the body of Christ. We agree with Jesus when he said this IS my body! Us Christians believe Him and 2,000 years later we still do what the 1st century Christians did.

Mary

 

[Shittim]

Thanks, Shittin,

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so I am going to say what I think you are saying so I better understand:

You do go to a building that people call church. Those buildings that you go to are the ones He tells you to go to. When you go to those buildings He works through you to do His will.

Is that a fair summary of what you are saying?

Mary

I think so, at zero-dark-thirty in the morning.
Think of it as Jesus said, "I only do what I see the Father do, I only say what I hear the Father say"
He modeled for us how we are to live.
Ask him for divine encounters, He gives freely.
blessings

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, yes he did and YOU previously quoted those passages:

John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—He who eats this bread will live forever.”

So you now believe that once you eat that bread. Unlike the children of Isreal. who ate manna often and died. that you will live forever. when did you change your view?

Ummm....Several months after He told us in John 6 that he is the bread of life and that we MUST eat him he showed us how to do it: as they were eating, Jesus took bread, ......gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

He told us we must eat his body and then several months later he showed us how to do it. At the time some of the Jews didn't believe him and they walked away. They are non-believers. WE say yes to Paul; the bread IS a participation in the body of Christ. We agree with Jesus when he said this IS my body! Us Christians believe Him and 2,000 years later we still do what the 1st century Christians did.

Mary

Oh back to this, I knew it was good to be true.

No Jesus did not tell us how to then.

He told us how in John 6.

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

And peter said he understood what Jesus meant

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Peter ate the bread from heaven, And because of it, He believed

he believed what the spirit said through Jesus

It is not some wafer of unleavened bread and a cup of wine..

 

[Marymog]

No. Paul did not re-afirm that message. He spoke of a ceremony which represented Christ, and a ceremony to do in remembrance of him.. who gave his life that we who believe will have eternal life

I agree with you EG!!

In 1 Corinthians 10 Paul "spoke of a ceremony which represented Christ". In that "ceremony" what we were told to do in remembrance of Him was a re-creation or a re-enactment of The Last Supper. Jesus said at that "ceremony" the bread IS His body. You say it isn't. 30 years later Paul REAFFIRMED in a letter to the church in Corinth when he rhetorically said it IS his body and that if you eat the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner you WILL be guilty of SINNING against the body and blood of the Lord. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

So I ask you EG. How can one eat mere bread in an unworthy manner?

Curious Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with you EG!!

In 1 Corinthians 10 Paul "spoke of a ceremony which represented Christ". In that "ceremony" what we were told to do in remembrance of Him was a re-creation or a re-enactment of The Last Supper. Jesus said at that "ceremony" the bread IS His body. You say it isn't. 30 years later Paul REAFFIRMED in a letter to the church in Corinth when he rhetorically said it IS his body and that if you eat the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner you WILL be guilty of SINNING against the body and blood of the Lord. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

So I ask you EG. How can one eat mere bread in an unworthy manner?

Curious Mary

I assume you mean 1 cor 11?

1 cor 11:
20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

How about that Paul tells them WHY they eat. Not to recieve eternal life. but to PROCLAIM THE LORDS DEATH!!


27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

wow, amazing, Paul even said IF we are judged, we are chastened..(Many are weak, and sick and some have died (sleep)

Did Jesus make any of these requirements in John 6? Of course not

The lords supper is to REMEMBER THE LORD

John 6 is to RECEIVE the bread of life that we WILL NOT DIE!

Huge difference

 

[Marymog]

I think so, at zero-dark-thirty in the morning.
Think of it as Jesus said, "I only do what I see the Father do, I only say what I hear the Father say"
He modeled for us how we are to live.
Ask him for divine encounters, He gives freely.
blessings

I don't understand the zero dark thirty analogy but none the less.....

What church do you go to so that you can fulfill Matthew 18:17?

 

[Marymog]

I assume you mean 1 cor 11?

1 cor 11:
20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you.
23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

How about that Paul tells them WHY they eat. Not to recieve eternal life. but to PROCLAIM THE LORDS DEATH!!


27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and [f]blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

wow, amazing, Paul even said IF we are judged, we are chastened..(Many are weak, and sick and some have died (sleep)

Did Jesus make any of these requirements in John 6? Of course not

The lords supper is to REMEMBER THE LORD

John 6 is to RECEIVE the bread of life that we WILL NOT DIE!

Huge difference

I referenced 1 cor 10 AND 11 but YES...I did mean 11 also. Thank you.

Paul says that whoever eats (bread) in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body of the Lord. THAT re-affirms what Jesus said when he said it IS his body. For you see EG one can't eat MERE BREAD in an unworthy manner. We can eat HIM in an unworthy manner, but not mere bread.

At a Catholic mass when we remember Him and eat the bread we say those words; proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes again.

I don't understand how your theory that since Paul didn't say that when we receive Him in the form of bread that we will have eternal life that Jesus didn't mean that when we receive him we will have eternal life. TO ME it seems you are suggesting since Paul DIDN'T reaffirm the exact words of Jesus in John 6 that His words had no meaning.

Thanks for your time...Mary

 

[Marymog]

So you now believe that once you eat that bread. Unlike the children of Isreal. who ate manna often and died. that you will live forever. when did you change your view?

EG, I did not in this conversation with you or any conversation on this forum say that we only have to do ONE thing to have eternal life. I have NEVER said that. There was no change of view.

I believe and Scripture teaches that we must do ALL of what Jesus and the Apostles taught. ONE of the things we must do is eat/drink His body/blood to have eternal life. Scripture also says that we must be baptized, proclaim with our mouth, keep the commandments, do good works etc etc. to obtain salvation. Scripture NEVER says if you do this ONE thing you will have eternal life.

The bread that the children of Israel ate was mere bread. The bread He gave us (which is Him) is not mere bread; just like Jesus and Paul said.

Did you know that the Israelites kept manna in The Ark of the Covenant? Why did they do that EG?

 

[Marymog]

Catholics think we have to eat often, and even then, we are not assured we will receive any of these things Jesus said they WILL (not might) GET

Yes EG, Catholics think, the 1st century Christians practiced, and Scripture says that we are to eat/drink in remembrance of Him (just like He told us too) and we do that often just like they did in Acts 2:46. There is NO restriction in Scripture how often to do it HOWEVER in Acts 2:46 says they did it daily. The larger Catholic churches offer DAILY mass so that we can do what the 1st century Christians did. Does your church offer you daily bread spoken of in Matthew 6:11?

Yes, Scripture and The Church makes no assurances that just because we participate in the Lords Supper on a daily basis, we are not assured eternal salvation.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

She? lol. You can't even get that right

And you still have not admitted you were wrong when you falsley accused me.

Its ok. I have learned along time ago. I do not expect you to admit error. Like you think your church is, you have no error.

You can give the evidence of your allegation against @BreadOfLife OR you can apoligize.....It's that simple. I have yet to see your evidence, so I hope to see an apology.....You know, like a Christian would do.

But instead of admitting you are in error you are going to get mad at me and put me on the ignore list..... I guarantee it.

I have admitted my errors on this forum when they were pointed out to me......Soooo you can take your false comment back and apologize OR you can continue to lie.

Keeping it real....Mary