What is Predetermined?
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
I attended a baptist church years ago at the request of a friend, when i was young. The preacher told me if i said 3 lines of prayer, i was saved. What a croc. The same Joel Osteen tells those on tv he doesnt even know them at all. Ear ticklers. I say=--Run from them.
I was a drug dealer, drug doer, drunkard, fornicating, thief. I sure was not saved. I didnt say the prayer because i already knew it wasnt truth. It just gives those an excuse to remain in sin. After studying the bible for years i have repented of all of those things. One must be holy. Ephesians 1:4
We can not save ourselves. All we are responsible for is asking and continuing to believe.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Then you tell us why a little flock( Luke 12:32) is mentioned and other sheep( John 10:16) who are the great crowd ( Rev 7:9)which no man can number. And why at Rev 14:3 it teaches 144,000 are bought from the earth. And it has to be the little flock because they are numbered.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Because, when I was child, I spake as a child and went Neah! Neah! Neah! when I heard something I didn't like nor have an answer for.68, why?
Small minds only care for the small things they already think they know, and will never be corrected by greater things than their own small selves, so that the only things they will ever know are small and of their own.
When I understood that, I put away childish things and became a man of understanding, because I became a student of correction.
But, hey, I can still play kids games with you, if you want. All work and no play makes the student a dull boy.
The little flock and the other sheep are all part of the church. I don't see where you get a connection to the 144000. Whoever you think they are, they are Jews. You think that they are who?
Anyone, any person, can talk and argue with any other person as long as they want, and even until Jesus comes back, but no one can argue with God. That being said, I have yet to hear anyone offer any alternative understanding to the understanding of the following passages that God's salvation is invincible and, once given by God, cannot be lost by any person. Yet again:
"Then Job answered the LORD and said: 'I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.'"
[Job 42:1-2]
"...we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one Who died ~ more than that, Who was raised ~ Who is at the right hand of God, Who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, 'For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him Who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
[Romans 8:28-39]
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."
[Ephesians 1:3-14]
"I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
[Philippians 1:6]
"God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with Him."
[1 Thessalonians 5:9-10]
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
[1 Peter 1:3-9]
"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."
[Jude 24-25]
This is the Word of the Lord. The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the Word of our God stands forever (Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:24-25). Thanks be to God.
Grace and peace to all.
"Then Job answered the LORD and said: 'I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.'"
[Job 42:1-2]
"...we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one Who died ~ more than that, Who was raised ~ Who is at the right hand of God, Who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, 'For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him Who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
[Romans 8:28-39]
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."
[Ephesians 1:3-14]
"I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
[Philippians 1:6]
"God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with Him."
[1 Thessalonians 5:9-10]
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
[1 Peter 1:3-9]
"Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."
[Jude 24-25]
This is the Word of the Lord. The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the Word of our God stands forever (Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:24-25). Thanks be to God.
Grace and peace to all.
Okay, so when are you going to stop?
Ah, you seem to be fooling yourself.
Lean not on your own understanding, friend. Now, where have I heard that before?
Grace and peace to you.
Um, yeah, I agree, but this doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we have been talking about. I'm not sure how you got here. But... no matter. Grace and peace to you.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Now you make it personal...which is hypocritical, because I only called your personal rant a rant, not for any other reason except that it was obvious that you were simply venting and going on and on with a personal pet peeve--not sharing any biblical wisdom, exactly what a child might do. Judging from your above post, you just went from bad to worse.
But...if you want to stick to biblical truth without making it your own personal rant--I will gladly discuss it with you. But that has not happened yet.
Change is in order.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
All know the Israelite religion is cut off of being Gods chosen-Matt 23:38-39- They have outright refused to do verse 39 for over 1975 years. Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen, from every nation The little flock are the only ones promised heaven.
You think only 144 thousand are going to heaven out of all the people who ever lived?!
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
it is well known that JW think only 144,00 make it to Heaven. Yea…. Cults usually say the darnedest things.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes they are numbered. The rest who are righteous will inherit the earth- Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:9-11, 29, Prov 2:21-22-- Jesusdoesnt need billions of kings sitting by him. 144,000 are his bride-Bought from the earth-Rev 14:3--Will serve as kings on thrones judging-Rev 1:6-Rev 20:4-9--these get the first ressurection. The rest of the dead do not get resurrected until after the 1000 year reign.
The 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8 is a symbolic number denoting a "complete complete completeness," so to speak. It is God's Israel in its entirety. The innumerable "great multitude" from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” is not a separate group but one and the same group ~ again, the latter symbolized by the former. Heaven and earth will be one at that point, heaven having come down to us rather than remaining separate, after the return of Jesus and the final Judgment. God says, in Revelation 21, not "Behold, I am making all new things," but rather "Behold, I am making all things new."
Grace and peace to all.
Grace and peace to all.
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
No its the little flock( Luke 12:32)= numbered literally. Your teachers are in error. The rest stay on earth=the great crowd no man can number-Prov 2:21-22--says they remain on earth. Matt 24:22-- shows they are brought through on earth. Psalm 37:9-11,29-Matthew 5:5--they inherit the earth and reside forever upon it. They will stand before the throne on earth. It will be the only ruling power in existence at that point( Daniel 2:44) All creation will be before the throne.
Heaven isnt coming down, it just means all will be before the throne. protected by Gods kingdom rule.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You are a living soul/spirit, that exists inside the body that is on the earth.
Your body is dying, and your spirit never will, and its going somewhere once that body gets put to bed in the earth with a shovel.
Where will you go?
2 Choices.
Heaven or Hell.
There is no 3rd.
You get to choose.
Choose wisely, BECAUSE= God WILL honor your choice for eternity, after your body dies and your spirit meets Him.
Believe it.
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