What is so wrong with Calvinism ?

[reformed1689]

Sure He did see 1 John 2:2, John 3:16-18 and Hebrews 2:9 for starters.

What makes you think I have not looked at those? Where does it say he died for all sin? Not one of those verses say that.

 

[ChristisGod]

So, reformed1689 said, "God did not pay for all sin." This is true in one sense but untrue in another. And I'm pretty sure he/she is well aware of that. It's true in the sense that Christ's atonement was sufficient for the world, but is not true in the sense that Christ's atonement was not made to be effective unto all. All these verses, Christophany, clearly state the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for all, and not the effectiveness unto all.

Grace and peace to you.

And when one places their faith in Christ as the sacrifice for their sins they are saved. Faith is the criteria. It always has been and always will be by faith .

hope this helps !!!

 

[farouk]

I have been one for over 40 years and know all the doctrines and history. I've taught it for decades. I know its strengths and its weaknesses.

It begins with a misconception of who God is with the Trinity's main attribute- Love. I proved this in the OP.

hope this helps !!!

@Christophany One sometimes hears the phrase Biblical Calvinist; in other words, the person in his or her methodology rests upon Scripture rather than upon logical propositions (which can be turned around).

Ephesians 2 is a searching passage which seems to show it must be all of grace. 'But God....'

 

[reformed1689]

And when one places their faith in Christ as the sacrifice for their sins they are saved. Faith is the criteria. It always has been and always will be by faith .

hope this helps !!!

Is faith really the criteria? Or is faith the vehicle? The criteria is the choice of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

Is faith really the criteria? Or is faith the vehicle? The criteria is the choice of God.

Do you affirm Compatibilism

 

[BruiserMiller]

Love is one of the primary and essential attributes which reflect the nature and character of God. The word Theology refers to the study of God, and God is Triune, a Trinity- Tri-Unity. All doctrine begins with God at its starting point. God’s innate attributes are Aseity (God is self-sufficient), Infinite (without limit), Eternal (God has no beginning or end, he is timeless), Immutable (God is unchanging), Love (God is love), Holy (God is set-apart), Perichoresis (the indwelling of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Divine Simplicity states God is Love and because He is Love, not because He possesses that quality. God's love is the center of all the Divine Attributes. They point to His Being. God is not distinct from His nature.

God is Love. In love, the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John 4 tells us.

We must understand how God's attributes all work in harmony together, not in opposition to each other. God's attributes and character flow from His love—for God is love.

God being love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is love, and that love is perfect, lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love, by definition, has to be expressed with another, which is why a unitarian god cannot be love. Love requires another to share and express that love, and it is what we see with the Triune God. God is love before anyone/anything existed.

In Calvin’s Institutes monumental work, it is interesting for a man with such an attention to detail when it comes to dogma and Scripture that he left out any mention of Gods primary attribute that God is love from 1 John 4:8;1 John 4:16 and any biblical reference to those two verses in 1 John regarding God is love. His institutes contain thousands of bible references, over 1500 pages and 40 index pages of scripture references. But strikingly he chose to leave out God is love and the 2 passages in 1 John.

Another interesting fact is that in the Shorter Westminster Catechism of Faith, question 4 “What is God “? We read the following regarding Gods attributes and notice what is left out.

“God is Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth. “

Notice like in Calvin’s Institute’s, the WCF leaves out Gods primary attribute that He is love.

Before creation, there was no sin. There was no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, and justice. There was no Sovereignty for there was no creation to be Sovereign over. Why do you ask about those attributes and that they were not necessary? Because those are God's secondary attributes concerning the creation and the fall. God's love is a primary attribute, like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes, which were not in use until the creation and the fall.

The true nature of Gods love is at the heart of the gospel message: God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in His shall not perish but have everlasting life, John 3:16.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17.

conclusion: Love is missing in Calvinism. In calvinist doctrine we get an unbiblical view of Gods love for man and a gospel that is limited to some, not all.

PS- I was a staunch calvinist for over 40 years. So I understand the ins and outs of calvinism very well as I have defended it for several decades. Love is the missing link in Calvinism.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is LORD!!!

 

[BruiserMiller]

You just did. Who is "we?" You are all different. Many, many Calvinists identify quite exclusively as Calvinist. When you talk to a Calvinist, you never know who you're talking to. The god who fashions some of his creatures for the intended purpose of harassing his elect and then of being consigned to eternal agony in flames is not Christian. Are you that flavor of Calvinist? I can't keep track of who believes what among those who identify as Calvinists here. People who flock to and set up camp in threads about Calvinism and advocate its tenets are identifying themselves as Calvinists.

I would say I identify as a Calvinist regarding Soteriology, but I identify as a Christian regarding my Faith. I try to avoid committing the Logical Fallacy of making a Category Mistake by Conflating Calvinism with Christianity as a Religion or as the same thing...

 

[BruiserMiller]

I would be considered a five point Calvinist. Someone who believes the Bible. ALL of the Bible, including Romans 9 that yes says some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

It is a pleasure to meet you. I am a Calvinist too...

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus is LORD!

Amen

 

[ChristisGod]

It is a pleasure to meet you. I am a Calvinist too...

Watch out for him , just kidding he is a good guy in all seriousness.

 

[BruiserMiller]

Except God did not pay for all sin. No Scripture states that he did. Not a drop of Christ's blood was wasted.

What about Jesus being the Propitiation for the World, and especially for Believers?

 

[BruiserMiller]

He hidin'...

 

[marks]

What makes you think I have not looked at those? Where does it say he died for all sin? Not one of those verses say that.

Behold the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:15-17 KJV
15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

And again . . .

Behold the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would say I identify as a Calvinist regarding Soteriology, but I identify as a Christian regarding my Faith. I try to avoid committing the Logical Fallacy of making a Category Mistake by Conflating Calvinism with Christianity as a Religion or as the same thing...

Anyone who can seek to avoid making Logical Fallacies! Welcome!

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Behold the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:15-17 KJV
15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

And again . . .

Behold the Lamb of God Who carries away the sin of the world.

Much love!

Now prove world means all individuals. Good luck.

 

[marks]

Now prove world means all individuals. Good luck.

You can see for yourself how "world" is used in the Bible, so it's up to you what you believe.

You apparently think it doesn't mean the world actually, and instead means Christians, I guess. That's why I posted the passage I did, so deal with it.

Let's put your thinking to the test, if "world" refers only to Christians:

1 John 2:15-17 KJV
15) Love not the Christians, neither the things that are in the Christians. If any man love the Christians, the love of the Father is not in him.
16) For all that is in the Christians, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the Christians.
17) And the Christians passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

* * * * * This is NOT the correct text * * * * *

The world is . . . the world, this age, this kosmos.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Romans 9 that yes says some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

Your verse is explained by this verse. John 3:36

See those unbelievers in the verse?
Those are the "VESSELS" fitted for destruction.
They were never born again, so, they died as a CHRIST REJECTOR< of their own free will.
God knew they would, before they were born, as His Foreknowledge knows who will believe and who wont, and he has a JUDGEMENT waiting , "prepared" for these Christ Rejecting "VESSELS", even before they are born.
HELL and the Lake of Fire was o created for the DEVIL and His group that were all cast out of Heaven, and that was before God created ADAM the 1st.

Here is what is waiting for all Christ Rejectors....never born again....the "vessels fitted for destruction"..

1.) Hell
2.) Great White Throne Judgment
3.) The Lake of Fire, which is the 2nd Death.

 

[GISMYS_7]

that is correct those whom are elect/predetermined and predestined will through irresistible grace be saved. They have no choice otherwise.

Think !! Only those that make the choice to believe are saved!
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that """whosoever believeth in him"""should not perish, but have everlasting life.==== Some will choose to believe and some will choose to reject Jesus==all your choice!

 

[PinSeeker]

Think !! Only those that make the choice to believe are saved!

If everyone's sin is taken away, then everyone has to be saved, and a choice of any kind is not even necessary. Yes, if that were the case ~ Jesus died for everyone's sins and they were all taken away ~ then God would be unjust not to save everybody. So that's quite the conundrum for the folks that believe that. I mean, it shouldn't be, because thinking that is... not thinking.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Enoch111]

If everyone's sin is taken away, then everyone has to be saved, and a choice of any kind is not even necessary.

That is definitely NOT what the Bible says at all. While the sins of all human beings were paid for at the cross in full, only those who obey the Gospel will benefit from that finished work of Christ. All those who reject Christ or reject the Gospel will face God's wrath. Here are the words of Christ (John 3:36): He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.