What is : The Meat of the word

[Davy]

Actually Paul said that, which is why i say it.

Just read Hebrews 13:9

You are NOT to build or continue to build your faith or your theology on strong Doctrine, until you are completed grounded in the Grace of God, in your HEART.

Hebrews 13:9

That's not the same analogy. Paul is contrasting The New Covenant in Christ with "strange doctrines" of those steeped in serving the "tabernacle", which means the Jews. Thus those strange doctrines are not New Covenant doctrine, whereas the "strong meat" of Hebrews 5 is. It's easy to fall to confusion when one simply pulls out a single verse and applies however they want.

Heb 13:8-12
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
KJV

 

[Behold]

That's not the same analogy. Paul is contrasting The New Covenant in Christ with "strange doctrines" of those steeped in serving the "tabernacle", which means the Jews.

Not at all.

Paul told the believers that the devil's ministers would come into the body and lead many astray. Philippians 3:18.
Also, 1st Thessalonians 1:2-4.
Jude said these same are committing the "error of Cain", as their teaching and within their personal theology that they use to try to ruin the faith of real believers.

And they are not talking to unsaved Jews about the Tabernacle.

 

[justbyfaith]

Notice carefully the context of the verse you posted, that i posted.

Notice "His Goodness"..

See that? We the born again continue in GOD's Goodness, which means that God has us, according to Philippians 1:6.

"God who began SALVATION in all the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to complete it".

So, to "continue in God's goodness" is to realize that God Himself is Faithful to complete your salvation.
Not you.

And when you try to keep yourself saved, you fall from this understanding, and are "fallen from Grace".
And once you are there, you are found to be a Galatians 1:8, if you teach "another gospel"., such as the Gospel of self saving.

Just so you are aware, @Behold, I have never denied that it is the Lord that keeps us.

For I have always taught that if we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we have an everlasting faith.

This does not change the fact, however, that if we do not continue in His goodness, we will be cut off.

For such a thing would be the evidence of the fact that we were never sealed by the Holy Spirit.

For there are two types of faith in holy scripture.

1) a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith, that falls away in time of temptation, persecution, or tribulation (Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13)...

2) a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14). Such a faith is unto everlasting life (John 6:47)...life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been identified as temporal

The second type of faith is the everlasting faith that is the result of being sealed with the Holy Ghost.

It should be clear that the first kind of faith does not procure everlasting salvation; for when faith ends (because the person fell away), the person loses access to grace and thus loses access to salvation (see Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2).

While the first kind of faith, may indeed procure deliverance from sins (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14); if only for a season.

So, the encouragement here, is to heed the following scripture.

Phl 2:12, Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

which means:

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[Behold]

Just so you are aware, @Behold, I have never denied that it is the Lord that keeps us.

You've posted at least 100x to me that if you dont hold unto your faith, or "abide", then you are LOST.

So, that is 100x you have denied that Jesus keeps you saved.

That's your reality, as clearly posted to me, for the last 6+ months.

You can deny it now if you like.. No prob.

 

[justbyfaith]

You've posted at least 100x to me that if you dont hold unto your faith, or "abide", then you are LOST.

So, that is 100x you have denied that Jesus keeps you saved.

That's your reality, as clearly posted to me, for the last 6+ months.

You can deny it now if you like.. No prob.

I have posted what it says in 1 John 2:27...that the anointing teaches us to abide.

Personally, I believe that if someone does not have a circumcised heart, that righteousness may indeed be imputed to them (Romans 4:11). So, I don't think that I would post anything that is truly contradictory to that belief.

I also believe that if anyone is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they have an everlasting faith, that is upheld by the Lord...

However, I encourage people to give diligence to make their calling and election sure.

Because there is a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith that will fall away when temptation, persecution, or tribulation comes (Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13). And a person who falls away will not continue to have salvation afterward. To teach otherwise is heresy.

There is a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14). Such a faith is unto everlasting life (John 6:47)...life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal. Such a faith apprehends the Holy Spirit, so that the Holy Spirit seals the man unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

A person sealed by the Holy Spirit is kept by the Holy Spirit. Faith is cultivated in him as a fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) and as a gift (1 Corinthians 12:9) and will not cease in the man who has been given a permanent indwelling of the Holy Ghost (through being sealed). For the Holy Ghost will continue to produce faith in the man.

But of course, if someone ceases to have faith, they do not continue to have salvation.

For we are saved by grace through faith; and we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2).

Therefore faith is the conduit by which we have access to grace. Since we are saved by grace, if we do not have access to grace, we don't have access to salvation.

Therefore, if we cease to have faith in Jesus, we would cease to have access into grace and thus we would cease to have access to salvation.

 

[Behold]

But of course, if someone ceases to have faith, they do not continue to have salvation.

You are still teaching the Devil's Gospel of "self saving".

That's Galatians 1:8.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are still teaching the Devil's Gospel of "self saving".

That's Galatians 1:8.

Salvation by grace through faith is the devil's gospel of "self-saving"?

 

[Behold]

Salvation by grace through faith is the devil's gospel of "self-saving"?

Have you noticed that i never try to include water baptism, with Salvation?
Have you noticed that i never deny the Blood Atonement's power to keep me saved?

See those 2?
They are not your theology, so, please do not now pretend that they define what you believe.

You do not believe that God keeps you saved.
You believe that you keep yourself saved by doing a work of abiding, and probably now a bit of water baptism, helps thats out.

 

[justbyfaith]

Have you noticed that i never try to include water baptism, with Salvation?
Have you noticed that i never deny the Blood Atonement's power to keep me saved?

See those 2?
They are not your theology, so, please do not now pretend that they define what you believe.

You do not believe that God keeps you saved.
You believe that you keep yourself saved by doing a work of abiding, and probably now a bit of water baptism, helps thats out.

I think that you need to re-read post #185 (What is : The Meat of the word).

For if you read that post, you will see how my concept of abiding coincides with my understanding and belief that God keeps me saved.

As for water baptism, that is behind me...so I have no worries about not being saved for having not been baptized. From here on in it is by faith alone...faith in the operation of God (Colossians 2:12) and faith in what I identified with in my baptism...the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

 

[Behold]

I think that you need to re-read post #185 (What is : The Meat of the word).

For if you read that post, you will see how my concept of abiding coincides with my understanding and belief that God keeps me saved.
.

What about the months of posts you threw at me, where you argued that if YOU dont abide, then you lose your salvation.

So, do you see it differently now?

 

[justbyfaith]

What about the months of posts you threw at me, where you argued that if YOU dont abide, then you lose your salvation.

So, do you see it differently now?

The person who is sealed with the Holy Spirit will be kept by the Lord and cannot help but abide.

Of course if you are not abiding in the present moment you are not abiding in salvation (from sin) in the present moment.

But if you have the Holy Ghost, He will draw you back into an abiding relationship with Christ so that your koinoneia fellowship is restored.

In the meantime, righteousness can be imputed to us even if we are not behaving as those who are spiritually circumcised (Romans 4:11).

We are justified by faith...declared righteous even when we are doing the ungodly thing (Romans 4:5).

What this translates into is that we have an unshakable identity in Christ...that we are righteous in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Now that you have this identity, go and live like it, is the exhortation (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

For we abide by faith; and through faith we both enter into a desire to be set free from sin and also receive the power to be set free from sin.

(see Romans 4:20-22)....certain promises that apply to it are 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT).

 

[justbyfaith]

What about the months of posts you threw at me, where you argued that if YOU dont abide, then you lose your salvation.

So, do you see it differently now?

I don't see it differently now...I have always seen it as I have described to you above.

Of course, I do believe that the fire in John 15:6 is the fire of hell...(see John 15:1-8 for context)

 

[Davy]

Not at all.

Paul told the believers that the devil's ministers would come into the body and lead many astray. Philippians 3:18.
Also, 1st Thessalonians 1:2-4.
Jude said these same are committing the "error of Cain", as their teaching and within their personal theology that they use to try to ruin the faith of real believers.

And they are not talking to unsaved Jews about the Tabernacle.

We were talking about Hebrew 13:9, not Phil.3 and Jude 1 which is another matter altogether.

 

[Behold]

We were talking about Hebrew 13:9, not Phil.3 and Jude 1 which is another matter altogether.

Jude 1.. "contend for the Faith"..

So, there is a REAL faith, and there is also religion guised as self righteousness that is preached as "real faith", by Dark Lights.
Dark Lights are deceived people, who can be believers, who have fallen from Grace and are now involved with "another gospel".
Paul said these are "Bewitched", and "in the Flesh".
this "other" gospel is "water baptism", "self effort"..."commandment keeping".....etc.

Jude 1, Contend for the "real faith".
This is "Paul's Gospel"... "Justification by Faith, without works"...... its "the Gift of Righteousness"...>Its being "Made Righteous".... which is "the Gift of Salvation".
And what is that?
That is Hebrews 13:9.. "Grace"...... establish your heart there. Establish your own heart in all ways.... in the assurance of God's Grace.
What is that?
That is "once born again, always born again". That is.."Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved". That is Philippians 1:6

See, once your heart is established in GRACE, then you wont pursue any other Gospel, you wont be deceived by "doctrines of devils"... and you will be immune to the liars and heretics who live on forums and build churches to try to make you believe that you can lose your salvation, unless YOU keep yourself saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now what is taught by the holy scriptures on these issues?

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

I would only encourage the believer to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10) by seeking to make sure that your faith is not a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (as in Luke 8:12-13) but a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) (as in John 6:47)...a faith that apprehends the sealing of the Holy Spirit so that you can indeed have eternal security in the Lord.

 

[Behold]

Now what is taught by the holy scriptures on these issues?
if thou continue in his goodness: .

Let me help you with your understanding.

Notice,......>"if you continue in GOD's Goodness"...... you wont be among those who Jesus comes back to destroy.
But if you continue to teach that your abiding, and your commandment keeping, and your sin confessing, is "God's Goodness", then you have replaced "God's Goodness", which is "the Gift of Salvation", with the your false gospel of works, and when you do that, you are cursed. Galatians 1:8

Dont do that.
Dont replace "God's Goodness", which is "the Gift of Righeeousness" with water, or abiding, or any of your self control failed management techniques.

A.) How do you stay in God's Goodness? = By being born again.

There is no other way.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, by your estimation, God's goodness is imputed righteousness only; and has nothing to do with anything practical.

Just another indication to all that you are not a faithful teacher of the word of God.

See 1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6.

 

[justbyfaith]

and when you do that, you are cursed. Galatians 1:8

Now I realize that Paul the apostle used this verse as a deterrent from preaching a false gospel; but it seems to me that the devil uses this verse today to put fear in people's hearts as concerning the true gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, by your estimation, God's goodness is imputed righteousness only; and has nothing to do with anything practical.

...and has nothing to do with the practical issue of believing either, he says.

 

[Behold]

Now I realize that Paul the apostle used this verse as a deterrent from preaching a false gospel; but it seems to me that the devil uses this verse today to put fear in people's hearts as concerning the true gospel.

Let me show you something really enlightening.

Jude 1 says....>"contend for the FAITH".

"contend" means to FIGHT against FALSE "faith", or "false doctrine".

And what is that specifically. ?
Its Jude explaining that false brethren........who could be born again, but turned heretic, or could be "satan's ministers", pretending to be Preachers and Teachers, came into his Local Body, and not just into his, but into Paul's and all the apostles..
They infected the believers with this cunningly devised satanic Mental stronghold, that causes real believers to fall from Grace and never recover.
Its a remarkable piece of Satanic Achievement that has continued for 2000 yrs to ruin believers, and often its believers who are teaching this dark enlightenment.

Jude teaches this as the "error of Cain".

What it is, is a substitution of SELF EFFORT, in Place of God's Grace, by claiming that Grace, when taught correctly, is "license to sin".
So, the Devil's preachers prevent believers from understanding GRACE and the "Gift of Salvation" correctly by teaching very strongly that Grace, when taught truthfully, is "license to Sin".

The Devil is still laughing since he caused this incredible demoic deception to run rampant for 2000 yrs, in the body of Christ.