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So, was Paul one of these heretics when he said the following?
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
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.
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So, @Behold, by all means correct me on this (with scripture) if I am wrong.
Listen,
to continue in Christ is to be born again.
You can't not continue to be born again.
Why?
Because Once you are born again you are always born again, and that is WHY you continue.
The continuance of being Born again, is not so difficult to understand, is it?
Is it difficult to realize that once you are BORN, you are BORN for good?
Many believers can't understand this, for some odd reason.
You're theology is beyond dark.
Have you considered changing your forum alt to "justbywater" as then you'd be honest.
Also, its not the name of Jesus that saves.......its Jesus's BLOOD and Death and Resurrection that God accepts to save you and give you His Righteousness, is why and how you are saved.
Also, typical of a deceived legalist, you dont understand "continuing in Gods Goodness"""".
See, you think this means, that by trying not to go to hell by self effort, (self righteousness) you keep yourself in God's Goodness.
But actually that is how you deny it, and resist it.
See, let me explain....
"God's Goodness" is the GIFT of Salvation, as the GRACE OF GOD.....so, to exist there, is to stop trying to keep yourself saved.
Its to TRUST that Jesus will get you into heaven.
That is how you EXIST in GOD's Goodness.
You are the typical Legalist who has confused your self effort with God's goodness.
Typical of a deceived self righteous legalist, you have confused JEWS with "time of the Gentiles".
See those JEWS who are "broken off" so that the gentiles have the "time of the Gentiles" to become a part of the Family of God?
Well, those same Jews are going to be dealt with again, after the "time of the gentiles" ends, and that is known as the Great Trib.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Actually, he does say that. The people who get turned away are evildoers, which he defines as those who do not put his words into practice....
Matthew 7:21-27
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 ...‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
26 ...everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 ...‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
26 ...everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
Which commentary would that be?
I don't read commentaries.
A person who is born, while they cannot be unborn, can die:
Jas 1:14, But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15, Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16, Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Nope; it is @justbyfaith.
Because even with my belief that water baptism has the power to save (not that it exclusively saves; for I believe that a man can be saved through faith alone), faith is still the primary catalyst for salvation:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
So, it is my contention that, being baptized apart from faith in the operation of God is merely getting wet.
Now, I gave a scripture reference for that. Did you not read it?
Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Continuing in God's goodness is to continue to walk in the goodness that is the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23)...which equates to moral goodness.
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
What I have highlighted above in larger letters refers to Jews and Gentiles (not only Jews) who will be cut off if they do not continue in God's goodness.
The Law defines sin.
Commandments do it as well.
Heresy and heretics are shown also by the Law and Commandments and by Self effort.
See, a heretic, teaches that works, self effort, deeds, enduring, and similar is how you stay saved.
And this deceived theology is teaching that the Cross of Christ and the Blood Atonement is only as good as you are....
And that is the Gosple of works, and that's the Devil's Gospel.
You can't be un-born again.
Once born you are born......there is no stopping this, there is no undoing a Birth.
The Born Again, are born.......and they are "ONE with God".
You can't end this with behavior issues.
A BIRTH can't be changed by an attitude problem or carnality and stupidity.
So, when you read symbolic verses, and you dont understand them, you end up with a lot of warped theology that has nothing to do with the Cross or Redemption that exists as the Blood Atonement.
And there you are found.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Genesis 15:6
6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
I'm no Bible genius, but I'm pretty sure that was long before Paul's time.
Of course Peter knew justification was by faith. Jesus taught that salvation was by faith.....
Luke 7:48-50
48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
What Peter knew that you don't know is that genuine faith has corresponding actions connected to it, or else it isn't genuine faith.....
Genesis 22:12
Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.
Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Believing in God for the forgiveness of sin is not a self righteous work of merit.
Interesting.
You give Jesus the Credit due Him for keeping Abraham saved by Abraham becoming the righteousness of God.
Yet, at the same time you run around Christian Forums showing us that you are saving yourself by "holding on to this, and enduring to the end of that".
You're confused, and quite certain you are.
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Davy
Well-Known Member
This is where you strayed from The Word:
You said:
"= Paul says to build your theology and your spirituality on GRACE, not on "Meat".
And "meat"... is referring to doctrines, and man's teaching, commentaries, and so forth."
Paul didn't say that, you said that. The "strong meat" Paul spoke of is what he said those still in need of 'milk' should have had already, and should have been teachers.
Heb 5:12
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
KJV
The "strong meat" does not represent men's doctrines, nor commentaries. You strayed with that idea too, as it is not Biblical.
The "strong meat" simply means understanding in God's Word full strength, as one who has matured in God's Word is no longer in need of milk to keep growing, but in need of "strong meat". Just as with our bodies, once we are weaned off milk we need meat to keep growing. That's Paul's analogy.
Men's commentaries often are filled with organizational denominational doctrines which means, you can buy a study Bible full of commentary that fits only a particular denomination view. That's not the "strong meat". It's the leaven doctrines of men Lord Jesus warned us about. The "strong meat" instead is always about God's Truth, full strength, like the 'new wine' comparison Jesus gave.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Abraham believed all the way to the end, even though he had the opportunity to stop believing God's promise and go back to where he came from.
13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. Hebrews 11:13-16
But anyway, the point I was making was Paul's gospel is the same gospel preached to Abraham. As Paul himself shows us, righteousness has always been secured by faith, not by works. It's not a New Testament thing.
6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. Galatians 3:6-9
So we see that Paul did not preach a new gospel. He preached the gospel. He filled in the details of who the Son is that God promised to Abraham who would inherit the blessing on his behalf.
Actually Paul said that, which is why i say it.
Just read Hebrews 13:9
You are NOT to build or continue to build your faith or your theology on strong Doctrine, until you are completed grounded in the Grace of God, in your HEART.
Hebrews 13:9
If you will actually read the verses, its says that Abraham is the Father of our Faith.
Not of our works.
And if you read more you'll read this....that Abraham BELIEVED and it was accounted to Him = AS Righteousness.
(the same AS)...
What does that mean?
It means that at that very instant, Abraham became RIGHTEOUS, having been made so by God.
Abraham gave God FAITH, and God gave Abraham Righteousness.
This happened outside of any "work" and before any works.
this is "Grace through faith, without works"..
And why does God give righteousness that is not connected to works or self effort. ?????????
= "lest any man should BOAST"..
See, when a person is infected with self righteousness, they will brag about it on a fourm, as : "see me keeping myself saved"? "let me show you my WORKS that im doing to keep myself saved".
1.) holding onto faith as a work
2.) keep believing as a work
3.) enduring to the end as a work
4.) commandment keeping
5.) even water baptism, gets turned into a "this is what i did so that God would save me". = SELF EFFORT WORK of self righteousness.
Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Notice carefully the context of the verse you posted, that i posted.
Notice "His Goodness"..
See that? We the born again continue in GOD's Goodness, which means that God has us, according to Philippians 1:6.
"God who began SALVATION in all the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to complete it".
So, to "continue in God's goodness" is to realize that God Himself is Faithful to complete your salvation.
Not you.
And when you try to keep yourself saved, you fall from this understanding, and are "fallen from Grace".
And once you are there, you are found to be a Galatians 1:8, if you teach "another gospel"., such as the Gospel of self saving.
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