What is the purpose of Grace?

[amigo de christo]

Grace is established by God. Faith appropriates grace. God releases grace to faith. We overcome the flesh through grace.....released to us by faith.

Mercy and truth are the balance of God's judgment. For the righteous and the meek, mercy triumphs over judgment. The truth pertains to satisfying God's righteousness...leading to a higher attainment...holiness.

Justice is righteousness. With the merciful God will show mercy. If we forgive others we will be forgiven. We reap as we sow.

we surely do reap as we sow .
And he who calls GOD a liar is gonna reap damnation on JESUS Day .
SO here is who calls GOD a liar , EVERY RELGOIN DOES . cept those whose faith BE IN HIS CHRIST .
Inclusivians lied to you , heck i read that book , they lied to me too . ONLY I DIDNT BUY IT and you DID .
That currency you keep talking about , YEAH its not gonna save anyone .
IN fact NO WHITE GARMENT , THEY ONLY CAST OUT .
AND The only ones wearing a white garment ARE THOSE WHOSE FAITH IS IN JESUS CHRIST and not rather
the inclusive lie that darn sure has made the path TO GOD very broad as it sure does accept sins
as well as ....................UNBELIEF .
HEY EPI , WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham BELIEVED and it was counted unto him FOR RIGHTOUESNESS .
WIthout FAITH NO MAN can please GOD . AND if one calls GOD a liar , IF ONE BELEIVES HIM NOT
OH THEY GOT NO FAITH IN GOD .
HE who recieves HIS TESTMONY has set to his SEAL that GOD IS TRUE .
BUT HE who recieves NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , HE CALLS GOD A LIAR .
SOMETHING these inclusivians DENY . Like i said I KNOW what they teach and you
exposed yourself today for all t osee . I KNEW you believed that lie all along
cause as i told you I DID learn about inclusivity long ago . EVEN THEN i knew it was of anti christ .

 

[Hepzibah]

Needed 5 minutes to question the objectivity of the author and looked him up.

This is a quote of the author of the video -

Dr. David Litwa - It took me three years of college to realize that one needed to, frankly, become an atheist. I needed to recognize that much of what I grew up with was a sham: an instance of inauthentic thinking, and very complex measures for self-deception.

As such I don't trust the video.

Fair enough, but a quick search will show that Irenaeus has been indeed, the subject of much debate amongst scholars, and even more so Origen. Their writings have never been accepted as authoritive amongst the Orthodox, and if you are happy that Marta Przyszychowska, the author of the work, uses these two controversial figures for his/her main argument, I am not. I will go (video excepted) to reliable sources. (Sorry about missing that one.)

The author does admit that original sin was not used before Augustine, but misses what was actually said by Nazianzus by failing to read it carefully or being as dishonest as many scholars:

"For we believe that since we had fallen due to sin from the beginning and been led away by pleasure as far as idolatry and lawless bloodshed, we needed to be called back again and restored to our *original state*, through the heartfelt compassion of God our Father, who could not bear that such a work of his own hands as the human being should be lost. 366 Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 45, 12; PG 36, 637-640; transl. N. Verna Harrison, 171."

How can this be if we are born into a state of sinfulness? It rather says that something happened to us - we fell away from the original state (innocence) being tempted, and a work of God was required to call us Back and Restore us. The sin from the beginning, is of course Adam's sin with which we share once we give in to temptation which is inevitable due to the power of Satan.

And what is our *original state*? It is clearly not sinful and is what is in the minds of the early fathers when they talk about healing and not justice.

 

[Hepzibah]

Pointing out that Irenaeus should be tested against the surviving evidence is not the same thing as claiming that his testimony about his opponents “cannot be trusted.” That conclusion goes much further than the evidence presented here. And even if Irenaeus got some historical details wrong, that does not make Gnostic teaching true. The Scripture is enough to judge it by. “For ALL things were made by him; and without him was not ANYTHING MADE that was made.” (John 1: 3) “That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,” (1 Corinthians 15:3). Questioning Irenaeus does not help teach doctrines that go against the Bible.

Please read my reply to @ProDeo which explains what I mean. As you have seemingly not read the article you are really not in position to comment.

 

[Marvelloustime]

we surely do reap as we sow .
And he who calls GOD a liar is gonna reap damnation on JESUS Day .
SO here is who calls GOD a liar , EVERY RELGOIN DOES . cept those whose faith BE IN HIS CHRIST .
Inclusivians lied to you , heck i read that book , they lied to me too . ONLY I DIDNT BUY IT and you DID .
That currency you keep talking about , YEAH its not gonna save anyone .
IN fact NO WHITE GARMENT , THEY ONLY CAST OUT .
AND The only ones wearing a white garment ARE THOSE WHOSE FAITH IS IN JESUS CHRIST and not rather
the inclusive lie that darn sure has made the path TO GOD very broad as it sure does accept sins
as well as ....................UNBELIEF .
HEY EPI , WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham BELIEVED and it was counted unto him FOR RIGHTOUESNESS .
WIthout FAITH NO MAN can please GOD . AND if one calls GOD a liar , IF ONE BELEIVES HIM NOT
OH THEY GOT NO FAITH IN GOD .
HE who recieves HIS TESTMONY has set to his SEAL that GOD IS TRUE .
BUT HE who recieves NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , HE CALLS GOD A LIAR .
SOMETHING these inclusivians DENY . Like i said I KNOW what they teach and you
exposed yourself today for all t osee . I KNEW you believed that lie all along
cause as i told you I DID learn about inclusivity long ago . EVEN THEN i knew it was of anti christ .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

the god of the incluisivains and its progressive mindset will lead them all to perdition .
Its growing daily and by the hour now .
stay IN the scriptures . The god of the inclusivains cannot save them . FOR IT BE NOT THE GOD
OF our LORD and sav oir JESUS CHRIST . IT be the god of lies and mirrors . always twisting
and always misleading it does . The carnal progressive mind of man can RECIEVE IT .
ONLY the sheep who now have the mind of CHRIST can and will resist it . The hour is late my friend .
The hour is very late indeed .

@amigo de christo

 

[ProDeo]

Fair enough, but a quick search will show that Irenaeus has been indeed, the subject of much debate amongst scholars, and even more so Origen. Their writings have never been accepted as authoritive amongst the Orthodox, and if you are happy that Marta Przyszychowska, the author of the work, uses these two controversial figures for his/her main argument, I am not. I will go (video excepted) to reliable sources. (Sorry about missing that one.)

The author does admit that original sin was not used before Augustine, but misses what was actually said by Nazianzus by failing to read it carefully or being as dishonest as many scholars:

"For we believe that since we had fallen due to sin from the beginning and been led away by pleasure as far as idolatry and lawless bloodshed, we needed to be called back again and restored to our *original state*, through the heartfelt compassion of God our Father, who could not bear that such a work of his own hands as the human being should be lost. 366 Gregory of Nazianzus, Oratio 45, 12; PG 36, 637-640; transl. N. Verna Harrison, 171."

How can this be if we are born into a state of sinfulness? It rather says that something happened to us - we fell away from the original state (innocence) being tempted, and a work of God was required to call us Back and Restore us. The sin from the beginning, is of course Adam's sin with which we share once we give in to temptation which is inevitable due to the power of Satan.

And what is our *original state*? It is clearly not sinful and is what is in the minds of the early fathers when they talk about healing and not justice.

I am not as good as you regarding the ECT's, I only studied Origen and in particular his theory of pre-existence. Marta (the author) rejects Origen out of hand while she should at least have mentioned the theory because it answers the question of original sin, her chosen topic.

In a nutshell, Origen reasoning about the fall, God walking in the cool of the day in Paradise is symbolism, the Bible later explains God is Spirit. The talking snake is symbolism, we later understand it was the devil. A&E as we later learn represent all humans ever lived, live now and in the future, symbolism also. This without denying A&E were real historical persons. His conclusion - We were all in Adam, pre-existence souls, in Paradise and we participated in the rebellion, demanding to know about evil and God gave us disobedient souls what we wanted, away from Paradise, landing on the violent Earth where death rules as a necessity and we experience good and evil and learn the difference. We had our chance, but.... we rebelled, guilty as charged, born sinners by default, fallen creatures in need for restoration in Christ.

Problem, the Scriptures he used are not convincing, so I don't believe it as truth, but the thought is fascinating.

 

[Hepzibah]

I am not as good as you regarding the ECT's, I only studied Origen and in particular his theory of pre-existence. Marta (the author) rejects Origen out of hand while she should at least have mentioned the theory because it answers the question of original sin, her chosen topic.

In a nutshell, Origen reasoning about the fall, God walking in the cool of the day in Paradise is symbolism, the Bible later explains God is Spirit. The talking snake is symbolism, we later understand it was the devil. A&E as we later learn represent all humans ever lived, live now and in the future, symbolism also. This without denying A&E were real historical persons. His conclusion - We were all in Adam, pre-existence souls, in Paradise and we participated in the rebellion, demanding to know about evil and God gave us disobedient souls what we wanted, away from Paradise, landing on the violent Earth where death rules as a necessity and we experience good and evil and learn the difference. We had our chance, but.... we rebelled, guilty as charged, born sinners by default, fallen creatures in need for restoration in Christ.

Problem, the Scriptures he used are not convincing, so I don't believe it as truth, but the thought is fascinating.

The problem is, that it is perfectly possible to say that man 'joined' with Adam's sin nature, when he inevitably sins himself, yet he was not born in that way which the quote I gave, seems clear to me. Plus the scriptures given to support OS are very weak. I add that to the majority of the ECF's, if correctly interpretated, did not accept man is born sinful but that there was a propensityweakness to sin which was realized.

Man is born in the same state as Adam, innocent and makes the choice, led by Satan, and falls, and is restored by making the choice through faith to the state of Adam and then to go on to perfection or theosis in ECF terms. That in totality is the gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

epi what you THINK is proper currency AINT THE WAY INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD
SO telling lizabeth she aint got it your version of this currency IS A COMPLIMENT TO HER and myself .
YOU inclusivians preach a false gospel . And you proved what i already knew about you and this inclusivity
WHEN you came after my post exposing the religoin of anti christ for peace .
SO i will stick to THE BLOOD OF CHRIST , FAITH IN HIM as MY CURRENCY INTO THE KINGDOM .
cause your inclusivity AINT GETTING YOU OR ANYONE INTO THIS KINGDOM OF GOD . You better repent epi .

What you teach is from a spirit that says...DON'T listen to Jesus...don't listen to His words!!!!

You think God accepts lip-service.....but He doesn't. If you love Jesus then obey Him.

But only His sheep hear His voice, If you were His sheep you would not deny His words. You call God a liar because you have adopted the traditions of men...the antichrist is at work in those who say they believe in Jesus....but they are lawless and will be rejected.

Obey God. Obey the Lord Jesus. Hearing is not enough....one must DO His words to be saved.

You have no idea what the kingdom of God is or His righteousness. All you have is a man-made religion with LOTS of condemning of others. Having no mercy....means no mercy for you. You reap as you sow.

True faith in Christ is to walk as He walked...without sin and without all the fleshly self-interest and self-promotion you display here.

 

[Lizbeth]

It's like we having to go to a spiritual storehouse where things are laid up. The bible calls this the throne of grace. But those things are not necessarily for us personally. If I go to a store I never think that all the items I see on the shelves are mine...that are there for me. They are potentially there for me....but not necessarily. I have to BUY them with the proper currency. I can't use play money. Likewise you can't think your play/pretend money can buy you anything from heaven.

Why haven't you ever been translated into the kingdom realm? You don't have the proper currency.

Jesus has paid the price for everything, and in Him and through Him it is all being imputed to the believing child of God meanwhile.........as we also pay a price to follow Him and seek to apprehend those things.

Why aren't you in the kingdom realm? Do you ever examine yourself? And since you aren't, you don't have the right to rebuke others for not being there yet. If anything, I would think your situation would make you more understanding of others (assuming your experience was genuine).

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus has paid the price for everything, and in Him and through Him it is all being imputed to the believing child of God meanwhile.........as we also pay a price to follow Him and seek to apprehend those things.

Why aren't you in the kingdom realm? Do you ever examine yourself? And since you aren't, you don't have the right to rebuke others for not being there yet. If anything, I would think your situation would make you more understanding of others (assuming your experience was genuine).

When one examines himself by a false gospel thus by a god of the broad path of unbelief ........
It be as a blind mind groping in the dark and looking right into a mirror .
He simply cannot see . he might feel the mirror but he cannot see .
Those who stumble in the darkness cannot see that which they stumbled upon .
And any who preaches the inclusivian gospel is blind indeed . For though they bring even Jesus words
they will use such words in incluisivain light . And that light be darkness sister .
What a man sees is only that which is pleasing to His flesh .
And he will walk miles upon miles and over hills and moutains to find
what was promised water , but only finds an empty cistern .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus has paid the price for everything, and in Him and through Him it is all being imputed to the believing child of God meanwhile.........as we also pay a price to follow Him and seek to apprehend those things.

Why aren't you in the kingdom realm? Do you ever examine yourself? And since you aren't, you don't have the right to rebuke others for not being there yet. If anything, I would think your situation would make you more understanding of others (assuming your experience was genuine).

When a man uses scripture , even the words of JESUS in the gospels ,
but only uses such words to negate HIS other words , namely the dire need to BELIEVE on HIM
Then the light that is in them be only darkness .
And if the light that is in one be darkness , THEN GREAT is that darkness sister .

 

[Lizbeth]

Back to topic "What is the purpose of Grace?"

I believe that grace is the enabling power for us to become sons of God. If we receive him by faith and believe on His name.

No need to complicate it

Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Power comes to us through His grace, but grace is not just power........it is God's overall disposition of favour to the believer based on our faith in and acceptance of His Son. We have found favour with God, through faith. So He is disposed to be gracious to us, which comes from the root word grace. Through that grace come all the "benefits" of the gospel....salvation, Holy Spirit, blessing, provision, protection, guidance, power, spiritual gifts, etc.