WHAT Is the Trinity?

[VictoryinJesus]

I have a question for anyone here:

Who is greatest in the body(the church) of the Christ?

Are apostles greater?
Pastor, Teachers?
Or Administration?

 

[GodsGrace]

you do not, but many others abuse the Trinity doctrine for just this purpose, making it into "you have to agree with me where Jesus is concerned, or you are lost."

No where have I ever read that one MUST UNDERSTAND or accept the trinity to be called a Christian. I know some who tell me that if a person NEVER HEARD of Jesus, they cannot be saved.

We like to put God into little boxes and label them.
I like to know doctrine and theology, but I NEVER state whether one is saved or not.
ONLY GOD can know this. I only speak to doctrine.

I've been told (not here) that I'm going straight to hell because I don't believe in Hyper grace and am mixing grace with works. Who cares what anyone thinks? We're not here to discuss the condition of a person's soul.

The reason I say that it's important to believe that Jesus is God is the following:

IF Jesus was not who HE said He was or who the APOSTLES said He was:
Then He must have been a madman and the Apostles must have been liars.

THIS is the only reason I say that one must believe Jesus is God.
I see no alternative.

 

[bbyrd009]

And your one verse with which you have a problem:

The one v that is not scribed to death in order to make Jesus into God, "God is the head of Christ,"

so that is actually maybe the one verse with which i do NOT have a problem; whereas most of the rest take liberties in translation to make Jesus into God, by translating a common form of "Lord" that might even refer to a "Master" or even other "gods," as the Lexicon still attests--but don't worry, they'll have that all fixed up i'm sure, in the next edition of Strong's lol

 

[GodsGrace]

but if the Buddhist manifests Christ, what does the label amount to? Was the Good Samaritan a "Christian?" Would he even want to listen to a Christian Priest passing by on the other side of the road? Would he accept the Priest's words about Jesus?

I agree.

I've said that some who believe they're on the narrow road are really on the wide road and V V.

I also will say that Jesus' main theme in all His teachings was the Kingdom of God, NOT salvation. (this could be checked)

He spoke about the Kingdom about 100X.
About salvation 5 or 6 times.

The Buddhist is serving GOD. There is only ONE GOD.
You call it manifesting Christ. OK. I can go with that although that's not how I'd say it.

 

[bbyrd009]

THIS is the only reason I say that one must believe Jesus is God.
I see no alternative.

ha what's wrong with "God is the head of Christ, and you are the Body?"

 

[GodsGrace]

"Jesus is God, and i am the Body of Christ, therefore i am God," although this is of course never stated

I don't use emoticons a lot but I'm pretty horrified by that thought!

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't use emoticons a lot but I'm pretty horrified by that thought!

yet we all believe that we have some truth that others cannot see, don't we?
that is all that is, same thing

 

[Helen]

Some believe they are totally equal in position.
This creates theological problems.
The ECF believed they had differing positions.
This does clear up problems, such as when Jesus prayed to Father; however, He also said "the father and I are ONE". One in NATURE.

What is ECF ? That's why I "quoted you."
----------

 

[Helen]

To the confused I usually use John 3:12-13 to show the majesty of the godhead.
One God expressing Himself in three ways, but One.
We know that people often ask- "How can Jesus be God and He was separated from God in death ..how can He die and still be God, so he can't be God."
I like- v 12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Here Jesus is showing how He lives in the Spirit while walking in the flesh.
We've all heard the phrase - We are spirit beings living in a body. NOT a body which has a spirit. Jesus shows this here I think.
He was still very much who He always was from before the beginning.
He was God while He was here, but He also wasn't God...
....because He CHOSE to lay that majesty down and leave it in 'heaven' as it were, so that he could "be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin." When He came into His ministry I am sure He knew then who He was....but before...I had to have had a struggle...because we used to struggle..in believing who God is, and who we are in relationship to him.
I'm not sure that he could always have had that assurance..because if He always knew that He was God..then the whole thing was a silly 'no contest'.
Phil 2:7 " He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." He laid down His power and glory to come.
The Great Creator became of saviour...
I'm still letting these things sift themselves in my spirit...and hopefully settle.

 

[lforrest]

but if the Buddhist manifests Christ, what does the label amount to? Was the Good Samaritan a "Christian?" Would he even want to listen to a Christian Priest passing by on the other side of the road? Would he accept the Priest's words about Jesus?

You mean like that one guy that was here a few months ago? He magnified Christ and then elevated himself to equal status telling people to believe in he himself for salvation.

People will look many places if they are thirsty for God, and they will find him. Question is what will they do once they find him? Will they recognize him, or will they pass by and keep searching? Search criteria can be a problem, when we have presuppositions about God that are incorrect. How many Buddhists have rejected Christianity because of reincarnation?

 

[101G]

Could you explain the highlighted in a different way.

I've never heard of what you're saying...

first thanks for the response. I touched on this in the topic "Whose lying?" post #60. but here, to make is very plain, our Lord Jesus is clearly the Spirit, the HOLY SPIRIT. as I prove, the letter is from ONE PERSON, see Rev 1:4 & 5. the highlight you speak of from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ. all three of these Epithet are identification or function to the ONE PERSON "JESUS". the answer of ONE PERSON was right in the from of the letter, "from him", clear as day. the which is, and which was, and which is to come. describe his three dispensation in our history

"WHAT" vs "WHO" God is is expressed in his name that he Gave Moses. Moses asked "WHAT" was his name, Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? God's answer, Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you". what a name is, is not who a name is. example, if I asked you "what" was the first woman name is. most would say "Eve" and you would be wrong. let's see "what" her name is. Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created". see that? her name is Adam in the day they was created. but her PERSONAL Name is "Eve" which her husband gave her after their fall. see the difference now. what vs who in name. I AM THAT I AM is what Moses asked, and God gave Moses exactly what he asked for, no more nor less. now if Moses would have asked "WHO" are you in Name, then God would have said "JESUS". game over close shop and go home. but Moses didn't, he asked "what" is your name. so I AM is what God is . I AM King of kings, LORD of Lords. I AM Creator & maker of all things. I AM saviour, and redeemer of mankind. I AM Comforter and Mediator. I AM your righteousness.... ect. see I AM is what he is but JESUS is who he is. and his dispensations in our History is "I AM (Gen 1:1 Spirit, Father), THAT (John 1:1 Spirit diversified in flesh, Son), I AM (Rev 1:1 Glorified in Spirit with flesh and bone, the HOLY SPIRIT) .

hoped that helped.

 

[GodsGrace]

so that is actually maybe the one verse with which i do NOT have a problem; whereas most of the rest take liberties in translation to make Jesus into God, by translating a common form of "Lord" that might even refer to a "Master" or even other "gods," as the Lexicon still attests--but don't worry, they'll have that all fixed up i'm sure, in the next edition of Strong's lol

Agreed.
But even if the translations are wrong, and I know they are, we could still
Trust His life story as told by the apostles.

 

[GodsGrace]

To the confused I usually use John 3:12-13 to show the majesty of the godhead.
One God expressing Himself in three ways, but One.
We know that people often ask- "How can Jesus be God and He was separated from God in death ..how can He die and still be God, so he can't be God."
I like- v 12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Here Jesus is showing how He lives in the Spirit while walking in the flesh.
We've all heard the phrase - We are spirit beings living in a body. NOT a body which has a spirit. Jesus shows this here I think.
He was still very much who He always was from before the beginning.
He was God while He was here, but He also wasn't God...
....because He CHOSE to lay that majesty down and leave it in 'heaven' as it were, so that he could "be tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin." When He came into His ministry I am sure He knew then who He was....but before...I had to have had a struggle...because we used to struggle..in believing who God is, and who we are in relationship to him.
I'm not sure that he could always have had that assurance..because if He always knew that He was God..then the whole thing was a silly 'no contest'.
Phil 2:7 " He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men." He laid down His power and glory to come.
The Great Creator became of saviour...
I'm still letting these things sift themselves in my spirit...and hopefully settle.

Very good post.
Sorry , not at computer and can't highlight.
What do you mean by

If he always knew he was god, the whole thing would have been a silly no contest.
??

 

[GodsGrace]

first thanks for the response. I touched on this in the topic "Whose lying?" post #60. but here, to make is very plain, our Lord Jesus is clearly the Spirit, the HOLY SPIRIT. as I prove, the letter is from ONE PERSON, see Rev 1:4 & 5. the highlight you speak of from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ. all three of these Epithet are identification or function to the ONE PERSON "JESUS". the answer of ONE PERSON was right in the from of the letter, "from him", clear as day. the which is, and which was, and which is to come. describe his three dispensation in our history

"WHAT" vs "WHO" God is is expressed in his name that he Gave Moses. Moses asked "WHAT" was his name, Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? God's answer, Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you". what a name is, is not who a name is. example, if I asked you "what" was the first woman name is. most would say "Eve" and you would be wrong. let's see "what" her name is. Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created". see that? her name is Adam in the day they was created. but her PERSONAL Name is "Eve" which her husband gave her after their fall. see the difference now. what vs who in name. I AM THAT I AM is what Moses asked, and God gave Moses exactly what he asked for, no more nor less. now if Moses would have asked "WHO" are you in Name, then God would have said "JESUS". game over close shop and go home. but Moses didn't, he asked "what" is your name. so I AM is what God is . I AM King of kings, LORD of Lords. I AM Creator & maker of all things. I AM saviour, and redeemer of mankind. I AM Comforter and Mediator. I AM your righteousness.... ect. see I AM is what he is but JESUS is who he is. and his dispensations in our History is "I AM (Gen 1:1 Spirit, Father), THAT (John 1:1 Spirit diversified in flesh, Son), I AM (Rev 1:1 Glorified in Spirit with flesh and bone, the HOLY SPIRIT) .

hoped that helped.

Good post decribing the "name" of God.
As for your ending words, I believe we can agree in the sense that all are God and God is all.

 

[GodsGrace]

yet we all believe that we have some truth that others cannot see, don't we?
that is all that is, same thing

Shouldn't be this way.
Of course, we Protestants have experienced many schisms.
It's embarrassing, imo.

God does show us some very individual " truth " that is for us only.
Personal revelation.
Not to be shared except, maybe, to edify.

 

[bbyrd009]

You mean like that one guy that was here a few months ago? He magnified Christ and then elevated himself to equal status telling people to believe in he himself for salvation.

this does not strike me as equating with the GS' position though, so i am not getting you i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

How many Buddhists have rejected Christianity because of reincarnation?

more to the point might be how many Christians automatically condemn Buddhists because of reincarnation. Especially in light of the reincarnation going on in the Bible that is reasoned away as "not the same thing."

 

[bbyrd009]

Trust His life story as told by the apostles.

well, i certainly don't think that they were lying; just writing dialectically. And if you try to read them logically, you will inevitably form opinions of truth that conflict with other verses. You will, most certainly, see Him come down in the same way that you saw Him go up; as did those standing there hearing that, that day. But of course no one wants to interpret that passage in that way now, do they.

 

[GodsGrace]

What is ECF ? That's why I "quoted you."
----------

Early church father's.....or theologians.
Those closest to that time and some even knew the apostles.
Imagine being able to ask them questions...

 

[GodsGrace]

well, i certainly don't think that they were lying; just writing dialectically. And if you try to read them logically, you will inevitably form opinions of truth that conflict with other verses. You will, most certainly, see Him come down in the same way that you saw Him go up; as did those standing there hearing that, that day. But of course no one wants to interpret that passage in that way now, do they.

bb
You seem to know all the "problematic" verses.
Written 30 and on years after Jesus died.
Trust Jesus, more than the Bible!;