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Featured WHAT Is the Trinity?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by GodsGrace, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your efforts, but we are still not really communicating.
    Give God the glory!

    By the way, This thread is supposed to be on the trinity.
     
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    THE COMFORTER is the the Lord Jesus Glorified with the Spirit, the seven Spirit as stated in Revelation. but let's get straight to the heart of the matter. scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever" there's that Greek word "another" G243 allos. now, what so interesting is this. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". ok, so when did the Lord Jesus come to them? let the scriptures answer. John 14:16 & 17 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you". Judas asked the perfect question, listen. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?". GREAT, good question. Judas asked "How, How, wilt thou manifest thyself". remember the Lord Jesus said in verse 18, "I will come to you". here's how and when, he came on the day of Pentecost in the MANIFESTATION of the Spiritual Gifts, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". that's how he came, IN "SPIRIT". and we have the list there . and if one keep on reading one will see the list and what gift was used on Pentecost. notice verse 10, 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues" understand, the world did not see this coming, but only his MANIFESTATION, as Judas asked about. but when he come in "appearance" in Glorified flesh and bone, every eye will see him then scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen". understand my friend, the Lord Jesus return is twofold. what do I mean? first in Spirit, unseen, on the day of Pentecost, and his second return, or his appearance soon to be, in Glorified flesh and bone, the eternal one (rev 1:7). this second "appearance", supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". see, the first time on Pentecost no one saw him, he MANIFESTED himself in the spiritual gifts. but this next appearing "EVERY" eye will see him.

    I hope this helped.

    if not, we can pick this up tomorrow, getting late here.
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    but A, there is no trinity.

    be blessed see you tommorrow.
     
  4. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I am blessed, but I won't be around much tomorrow until late as I have a fellowship meeting to attend out of town.
     
  5. breathofdesire

    breathofdesire Active Member

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    God begets the perfect body of Christ.
    Isn't our Lord imageless? Then is Jesus body and face not the image of God.
     
  6. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Jesus' body and face is the image of God in the sense that Jesus is God and we have some perception of what Jesus looked like.

    However, Jesus is not God Father. God Father is spirit. We have no idea what God Father looks like.
    The OT tells us that no one has seen the Father.
    Sorry. No Bible here.
    I'm sure you know this.

    Is that what you meant?
     
  7. breathofdesire

    breathofdesire Active Member

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    I am saying that God is not big on idolatry, and people making images of him. I figure his physical body and face (As the Christ) is in no way an image of God. Because he's spirit, and I don't think God has has an image.
     
  8. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi Amadeus,
    I pretty much had your experience.
    BUT, why would those nice nuns lie to us??
    I don't believe they did.

    I'd love to understand the ONENESS doctrine better.

    Regarding your statement which I highlighted, it is easy enough to understand.

    To baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is a FORM of baptism. Jesus commanded this in Mathew 28:19 so it must be correct. He did not make mistakes.

    Acts 2:38 is instead telling us about a TYPE of baptism.
    John baptized for the repentence of sins and was preparing the way for Jesus who preached repentence and the turning to God and living in His Kingdom.

    So Peter says to repent and be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS.
    This means with fire and the Holy Spirit.
    Acts 1:8
    For the power to witness to even the remotest part of the earth.
     
  9. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    We sometimes speak of different Jesus when speaking about doctrine. Doctrine that may be incorrect does NOT change the person of Jesus. What you have stated above DOES.

    Jesus must be God or the Christian faith does not really exist.
    If Jesus is not God, not only is He a different Jesus, but everything we've been told about Him might very well be a lie.
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the problem perhaps then becomes not those who seek a better understanding of Christ, but those who would use that as a starting point for excluding anyone God might accept simply because they do not accept that dogma. Iow "Jesus has to be God, therefore you must believe that Jesus is God to be "saved," and if you do not agree with me you are lost."

    of course if you are the Body of Christ, you are also accepting a form of deity for yourself, as perceived by many also. The progression there is also pretty obvious, i guess.

    The one v that is not scribed to death in order to make Jesus into God, "God is the head of Christ," is brushed aside, see, because that is not "A" enough for most Christians i guess
     
  11. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Hi Truth,

    Different beliefs abound about who the three men in Genesis 18:1-17 are.
    When there is doubt, I try not to give too much importance to the verses.

    However, I have checked 4 different bibles and here's what I come up with - have thought about this in the past too...:

    Genesis 18:1 is referring to God Father.
    YLT says Jehovah.
    KJV says LORD (which is God Father)
    NASB says LORD " "
    NIV says LORD " "

    So we could be sure that Genesis 18:1 is GOD speaking.

    Genesis 18:3
    YLT ...... Lord (master)
    KJV ...... LORD (God Father)
    NASB.... Lord (master)
    NIV ...... Lord "

    If you check, you'll find that the KJV is not the best for translating all the words in Hebrew that meant "God". So I trust the other three and must believe that God did not appear to Abraham. Nor did Jesus, but a Lord of some type.
    I'm not firm on this and am willing to hear opinions.

    Some believe two of the three men were angels and one was Jesus.


    As to your last question which I highlighted:

    ALL the bibles above say "hide from Abraham that which we are about to do"...
    even the KJV.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    Helen likes this.
  12. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Great verse Amadeus.
    Hebrews 1:6-8 which is from Psalm 45:6

    Of course in the above verse God is telling Jesus, the SON, that He is God and will be sitting on His throne forever.

    Maybe we could speak about this word "begotten" which has so many confused. (I don' mean on this forum).

    Begotten does not mean that Jesus was gotten or made.
    It means that He was a part of God Father and then became separate from God Father. But Jesus, or the 2nd person we should say, WAS FROM THE BEGINNING.
    He was NOT CREATED.

    It just means that He is a UNIQUE "person" - a person of deity, a divine person, ....GOD. When the bible is speaking about Jesus it will use Lord and when speaking of God it will use LORD. This is to distiniguish who is being spoken of --- not because Jesus is less in nature to God. His NATURE is a nature of God.
     
  13. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Could you explain the highlighted in a different way.

    I've never heard of what you're saying...
     
  14. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the poster who stated that the doctrine of the Trinity was defined with time.

    Jesus DID mention the Holy Spirit in Mathew 28:19 when He sends the Apostles on the Great Commission.

    I believe Jesus told the Apostles the Holy Spirit would come, but they seem to have concentrated on what their eyes could see (Jesus); much as is done today?
     
  15. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    They both existed at the same time!
    Jesus is the Word. The Word was with God and was God.
    The Word was Always with God.
    THEN He became a man. But He was Always with God, Jesus did not come second in time.

    Perhaps in "position"---to be discussed.
     
  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    But do you UNDERSTAND it??!!
     
  17. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by A and notA??

    I exclude no one. I'm not God and I certainly am very far from being a legalist.

    I DO however believe that certain criteria has to be followed to be called a Christian.
    If one is NOT called a Christian this does not mean he is not saved. This is absurd.

    BUT, is a Buddhist a Christian? No. This is what I'm speaking to.

    What do you mean by "a form of deity"?

    And your one verse with which you have a problem:
    Do you mean 1 Corinthians 11:13?

    God Father is the head of God Son in POSITION.

    God Father is the Almighty.
    Jesus is the Son.
    and then the Holy Spirit.

    They are all three GOD IN NATURE.
    They have different ATTRIBUTES.
    They have different POSITIONS.

    Some believe they are totally equal in position.
    This creates theological problems.
    The ECF believed they had differing positions.
    This does clear up problems, such as when Jesus prayed to Father; however, He also said "the father and I are ONE". One in NATURE.
     
  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    you do not, but many others abuse the Trinity doctrine for just this purpose, making it into "you have to agree with me where Jesus is concerned, or you are lost."
     
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  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    but if the Buddhist manifests Christ, what does the label amount to? Was the Good Samaritan a "Christian?" Would he even want to listen to a Christian Priest passing by on the other side of the road? Would he accept the Priest's words about Jesus?
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "Jesus is God, and i am the Body of Christ, therefore i am God," although this is of course never stated
     
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