What is truth?

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Matthias

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modalism is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in apostolic council
Bound on earth Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18

I doubt you’ll convince the modalists with that kind of reasoning. Better, in my experience, is to try to reason with people where they are.

Take you, for instance. Where you are is in the authority of church councils.

Which church council would you say supports your belief that the Trinity is three beings?
 

Matthias

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no I said “human”

You said “human nature”.

So your question has nothing to do with the Trinity.

“Is it possible for three unique distinct [human] persons to share the same human nature???”

Why wouldn’t it be?
 

theefaith

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I doubt you’ll convince the modalists with that kind of reasoning. Better, in my experience, is to try to reason with people where they are.

the church is a ruling kingdom not a Bible study!

Take you, for instance. Where you are is in the authority of church councils.

Which church council would you say supports your belief that the Trinity is three beings?

council of Nicea

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen.
 

theefaith

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You said “human nature”.

So your question has nothing to do with the Trinity.

“Is it possible for three unique distinct [human] persons to share the same human nature???”

Why wouldn’t it be?

then why it is also possible for there to be three unique distinct divine persons or three persons with the same divine nature!
 

Matthias

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council of Nicea

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Thanks. Where in the Nicene Creed is the Trinity said to be three beings?
 

theefaith

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Thanks. Where in the Nicene Creed is the Trinity said to be three beings?

The father is God!
The sin is God!
The HS is God!

one God (divine nature) three beings (persons)

the father is a being
The son is a being
The HS is a being

the father is not the son or Hs
The son is not the father or HS
The Hs is not the father or the son

simple logic demands three beings

To deny this is to reject Jesus Christ and his church!

Is to reject salvation!

Lk 10:16 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 

Matthias

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The father is God!
The sin is God!
The HS is God!

one God (divine nature) three beings (persons)

the father is a being
The son is a being
The HS is a being

the father is not the son or Hs
The son is not the father or HS
The Hs is not the father or the son

simple logic demands three beings

To deny this is to reject Jesus Christ and his church!

Is to reject salvation!

Lk 10:16 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

There is a difference between “persons” and “beings” in trinitarian theology. Other trinitarians know it and have said so. Why don’t you?
 

Matthias

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The father is God!
The sin is God!
The HS is God!

one God (divine nature) three beings (persons)

the father is a being
The son is a being
The HS is a being

the father is not the son or Hs
The son is not the father or HS
The Hs is not the father or the son

simple logic demands three beings

To deny this is to reject Jesus Christ and his church!

Is to reject salvation!

Lk 10:16 16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Your logic is diametrically opposed to the logic of the Athanasian Creed.
 

Matthias

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Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!

“There are not three eternal beings.” - Athanasian Creed

“There are three beings.” - you
 

theefaith

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There is a difference between “persons” and “beings” in trinitarian theology. Other trinitarians know it and have said so. Why don’t you?

If you want nature to be being: Fine
If you want person to be being:
Fine

let me know
 

amigo de christo

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THIS IS TRUTH .