What is truth?
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Good answer
1 pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Now since Christ has ascended to heaven whom did he appoint as pastor in his place and visible head of the church on earth? And is submission and obedience to them obedience to Christ?
Peter and the other apostles. As the church expanded beyond Jerusalem other bishops, elders, pastors and deacons were established, as described in Acts.
As long as they’re acting properly, yes.
how of you must submit and obey?
even if they are personally wrong we must still obey as Christ commanded the successors of Moses in Matt 23:1
They held to the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Jesus ascended to heaven leaving Peter and the apostles to govern the church and teach all men Matt 28:19
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
The spirit of Christ is the spirit of truth.
Your church is littered with bad leaders. How do you know this is true?
Would you blindly follow / obey those bad leaders?
In this conversation, my mind continues to return to your comments on the Vatican.
the apostles are not impeccable
but we cannot be the arbiter of truth ourselves!
we must be taught!
matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Who lead the apostles into all truth Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 and they are commanded to teach all men Matt 28:19
acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but God sent an apostle to teach and baptize him!
btw how does the eunuch know about baptism?
Possibly from something he had seen or heard while he was in Jerusalem, but I think more likely he heard about it from Philip (Acts 8:34).
How do you think he knew about it?
cos the apostle Philip preached the necessity of baptismal regeneration contrary to the “faith alone” boys who say they only preached “accept Christ as your savior”!
Yes. Why?
“Jesus is God.”
Now the question is, how is Jesus God?
Trinitarianism has an answer. At one time I believed this is the correct answer.
Binitarianism has an answer. At one time I believed this is the correct answer.
Unitarianism has an answer. At one time I believed this is the correct answer.
Jewish unitary monotheism has an answer. I believe this is the correct answer.
Our point of agreement is that he heard about baptism from Philip.
When we take the time to really talk with and listen to people we’re eventually able to find points of agreement.
the correct answer is what the church teaches! Matt 28:19
Jesus is the truth! Jn 14:6 and His church is the truth extended to all time and place! 1 Tim 3:15
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
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