What makes a doctrine false?

[Stumpmaster]

And if you don't receive it in this lifetime?

See here:

A parable that deals with eternal condemnation is found in Luke 16:19-31. In this parable, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and suffered torment in Hades. Jesus shares that this man longed to be able to send a warning to his family members who were still alive that they should not make the mistake that he did, of not trusting in and walking with God. This parable is important because it helps us understand the urgency of responding to the gospel and receiving the gift of salvation and life that is extended to us in Jesus.

See also:

2Th 1:5-10 All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. (6) After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, (7) and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels (8) in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. (9) They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, (10) on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.

 

[St. SteVen]

"Freely you have received; freely give" stands out for me.

That's a great point/observation.
Consider what Jesus has done for you, that you should do for others.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hmm yes. Gods law, natural law, truth, kametic law or just plain old God. It all means the same thing. You won't see me quoting scripture much, all of what I say comes strait out and onto the board. Even tho scripture teaches us alot we need to learn to descern what is Truth without having to rely on something exterior from ourself. On that note, here is some script that I admire.

‘Heed these words, You who wish to probe the depths of nature: If you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither will you find it outside. In you is hidden the treasure of treasures. Know Thyself and you will know the Universe and the Gods.’

Inscription on the Greek temple at Delphi – Delphi Oracle

That's interesting.
I'm guessing you have left the church and no longer practice Christianity?
Kametic law? (that was a clue)

 

[St. SteVen]

Because God is just and merciful, those not forgiven before death will have their testicles crushed in a nutcracker every second of every minute forever and ever and ever. Amen.

And the women?
Wait... don't answer that! - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

Anything that contradicts the Bible is false. Anything that the Bible contradicts is false. Other than that it may or may not be true, unless the Bible specifically says it's true.

Yes, that's the standard operating procedure.
However, not everyone agrees on what the Bible says about any specific subject.
Determining what is true and what is false is difficult at times.

 

[Zachariah]

Yes, that's the standard operating procedure.
However, not everyone agrees on what the Bible says about any specific subject.
Determining what is true and what is false is difficult at times.

Very true. We need to remember that around 300 ad during the roman empire, the population became aware of truth and where becoming hard to controle as they understood natural law and where prepared to fight for freedom. The romans quickly took controle of the Christian faith and attempted to burn and destroy any remnants of any other spiritual teachings that had the power to shift peoples conciousness into an awake state. They demonised the ancient Gnostic and Pagen teachings along with various other mystic traditions. They also hung and burnt people at the stake if they possessed anything of this nature. In this time they also locked 30 of the best scribes in a temple under duress, and they where forced to put together the cannon we see today in a way that would make people comply with Roman man made law and taxes. People say that Paul wrote the book of romans, but I would contest that and say the Romans forced the jewish scribes to write it. After all, the book is called Romans.

Let's take a look at a passage from the book of Romans, and when we understand true morality we know that taxation is simply theft. We also know that when we don't pay taxes the government uses threats of violence and if we don't comply, strait up violence and imprisonment.

Respect for Authority
Ro 13:1-7: "Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience. Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid. They are serving God in what they do. Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and government fees to those who collect them, and give respect and honor to those who are in authority."

Complete and absolute trash. A prime example of man claiming to be God and using spirituality in order to decieve and manipulate the people. The belief in man made authority over other people is the belief in slavery. Period, the end.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hmm yes. Gods law, natural law, truth, kametic law or just plain old God. It all means the same thing. You won't see me quoting scripture much, all of what I say comes strait out and onto the board. Even tho scripture teaches us alot we need to learn to descern what is Truth without having to rely on something exterior from ourself. On that note, here is some script that I admire.

‘Heed these words, You who wish to probe the depths of nature: If you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither will you find it outside. In you is hidden the treasure of treasures. Know Thyself and you will know the Universe and the Gods.’

Inscription on the Greek temple at Delphi – Delphi Oracle

Can't get a hit on "kametic law" but Natural Law is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature and values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society). According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason".

 

[Zachariah]

Can't get a hit on "kametic law" but Natural Law is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature and values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society). According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason".

You brink on the verge of moral relativism. Our rights are enherent by the Creator, not man. Man cannot make rights or make wrongs, this is fallacy. "Natural Law" or the "Law of God" is the objective Truth that governs the consequences of our free will. Kametic law is exactly this and is in Truth the same thing. Human nature is relative and not always based in Truth, hence it is attached to our free will. Natural Law is Truth, its objective and in no way relative. With this understanding we can see the contridiction in your post. You are in a dangerous place if you base human nature on what is true. It is saying that Truth is relative.

 

[Stumpmaster]

You brink on the verge of moral relativism. Our rights are enherent by the Creator, not man. Man cannot make rights or make wrongs, this is fallacy. "Natural Law" or the "Law of God" is the objective Truth that governs the consequences of our free will. Kametic law is exactly this and is in Truth the same thing. Human nature is relative and not always based in Truth, hence it is attached to our free will. Natural Law is Truth, its objective and in no way relative. With this understanding we can see the contridiction in your post. You are in a dangerous place if you base human nature on what is true. It is saying that Truth is relative.

Can you provide references that support your opinions. Weird how you disagree with things I post and then by what you post restate them. Still no such thing as kametic whatever getting hits. ???

I've heard of karmic law but it's from eastern religion and intrinsically incongruous.

 

[Zachariah]

Can you provide references that support your opinions. Weird how you disagree with things I post and then by what you post restate them. Still no such thing as kametic whatever getting hits. ???

I've heard of karmic law but it's from eastern religion and intrinsically incongruous.

Maybe I miss read what you said. But you did state "Natural Law is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature and values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law" This is incorrect. Natural law or "Truth" is objective, binding and immutable. It is un changing. Even when you look up the true meaning of the word "law" you will find this answer. Law is something that cannot be broken. However human nature is relative and changes from person to person. This is where I see contradiction.

Natural Law = Objective/Unchanging
Human Nature or Free Will = Relative/Changing

You see something that is objective cannot be based on something that is relative.

What im trying to explain here isn't an opinion or a belief. I have done much reading and study and had much experience on the matter and have come to know and understand it. Its a matter of 2+2=4, its fact. Its what is. I dont ask you simply to believe it either, we cannot truly know something just by believing it. We must seek and experience it ourself to come to know and understand something as truth. A parent can tell a child that the stove is hot and not to touch it, they can explain the consequences of touching it, and the child can believe these words to be true. The child however, will never truly know and understand until he burns himself. This is when it becomes known. We can read and recite scripture till the cows come home, but until we experience God we cannot Truly know God. This is the prosses of gnosis.

What im suggesting is that if you are interested, re inspect your current belief on this subject, stay open minded, and do your own truth discovery on the matter. Experience it for yourself.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Maybe I miss read what you said. But you did state "Natural Law is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature and values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law" This is incorrect. Natural law or "Truth" is objective, binding and immutable. It is un changing. Even when you look up the true meaning of the word "law" you will find this answer. Law is something that cannot be broken. However human nature is relative and changes from person to person. This is where I see contradiction.

Natural Law = Objective/Unchanging
Human Nature or Free Will = Relative/Changing

You see something that is objective cannot be based on something that is relative.

What im trying to explain here isn't an opinion or a belief. I have done much reading and study and had much experience on the matter and have come to know and understand it. Its a matter of 2+2=4, its fact. Its what is. I dont ask you simply to believe it either, we cannot truly know something just by believing it. We must seek and experience it ourself to come to know and understand something as truth. A parent can tell a child that the stove is hot and not to touch it, they can explain the consequences of touching it, and the child can believe these words to be true. The child however, will never truly know and understand until he burns himself. This is when it becomes known. We can read and recite scripture till the cows come home, but until we experience God we cannot Truly know God. This is the prosses of gnosis.

What im suggesting is that if you are interested, re inspect your current belief on this subject, stay open minded, and do your own truth discovery on the matter. Experience it for yourself.

You better get busy editing this Wikipedia page:

Natural law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Natural law[1] (Latin: ius naturale, lex naturalis) is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature, and based on values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society).[2] According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason."[3] Natural law theory can also refer to "theories of ethics, theories of politics, theories of civil law, and theories of religious morality."[4]

 

[Zachariah]

You better get busy editing this Wikipedia page:

Natural law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Natural law[1] (Latin: ius naturale, lex naturalis) is a system of law based on a close observation of human nature, and based on values intrinsic to human nature that can be deduced and applied independently of positive law (the express enacted laws of a state or society).[2] According to the theory of law called jusnaturalism, all people have inherent rights, conferred not by act of legislation but by "God, nature, or reason."[3] Natural law theory can also refer to "theories of ethics, theories of politics, theories of civil law, and theories of religious morality."[4]

And you can see the way that I have been using The term natural law on this thread. Objective Truth. You can put any meaning to it that you like. You can even hold multiple contradictive meanings to it just like Wikipedia. Its up to you. What we are talking about here is objective truth, and relative free will. These are the two principle aspects of our reality.

Better yet, maybe you could pick a word in respect to objective truth that suits you, replace it in you mind with the word I use, and take part in the subject.

 

[St. SteVen]

The belief in man made authority over other people is the belief in slavery. Period, the end.

Do you see a difference between leadership and authority?
I suppose government and law enforcement would be a similar question.

 

[Zachariah]

Very interestion question.

Leadership is different because it can be based in morality and Truth. On the other hand...

One that follows orders does not exercise conscience. And one that does not exercise conscience is in every case immoral. We call this the walking dead.

So who is more at fault, the order giver, or the order follower? In every case its the order follower for they are the one that ultimately carried out the immoral deed. In relation to truth and morality, there is no such thing as passing blame. No one can technically "make" somone do anything. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. This is because by Natural Law we are sovereign beings. There is NO SUCH THING as external rulership over the self. It does not exist in nature. We grow up brain washed and under the illusion that man made authority is normal. The world is kept in a state of fear because when people are scared they are easy to controle. Most people these days on a subconscious level don't want to take ownership and rule the self. Being a sovereign being comes with great responsibility and most people would rather ignore that. And this is why we find ourself in a state of slavery.

The correct meaning of anarchy means "no rulers". To be an anarchist means you have aligned yourself with truth and morality and to know that you are inherently sovereign. You have rulership of yourself and understand that external rulership does not exist by Truth. Jesus is a prime example of an anarchist.

So when we look at the human condition on a whole:

Internal rulership = External anarchy.
Internal anarchy = External rulership.

So we can see that the mass bodies of institutional controle are meerly the affect and not the cause. The cause of the current human condition of slavery is because most people are in a state of internal chaos and anarchy. They lack in knowlage, understanding and Truth and ontop of that are filled with toxic belief systems and ideologies. We grow up with these toxic belief systems and ideologies because the puppet masters controle the media, the education system, ALL major religions and many other day to day influences that we are not even aware of. Through it all they controle the people.

Knowing this stuff is what it truly means to be awake and it all comes down to the causal factor of "knowing thyself". Knowing the Truth. The Truth really does set you free. Becoming a "spiritual person" or an "enlightened being" is a highly destructive process because we need to break down our ego and false belief systems. Anyone that tells you otherwise is part of the problem. Being a person of truth does in no case mean peace either, its far from it. We are at WAR with lies and deception.

This is a figure of speech, but if Jesus came back tomorrow the police would follow their orders and put him down as quick as possible. And the sad thing is, no one would even recognise it was him.

 

[Zachariah]

The belief in man made authority has always been, and always will be false as it has nothing to do with freedom, nothing to do with morality and nothing to do with Truth.

A true Christian knows there is no legitimacy in the belief of authority for authority is based in slavery and Christianity is based in freedom.

 

[St. SteVen]

No one can technically "make" somone do anything. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. This is because by Natural Law we are sovereign beings. There is NO SUCH THING as external rulership over the self.

Great post, thanks.

What about extortion?
Or a police state that forces people to comply or go to jail?

I certainly see spiritual extortion in the church with the hell doctrine. "Believe, or burn."

 

[Stumpmaster]

Kametic law?

What is it?

 

[St. SteVen]

What is it?

Walk like an Egyptian. - LOL

Walk= live.


cc: @Zachariah

 

[Zachariah]

Great post, thanks.

What about extortion?
Or a police state that forces people to comply or go to jail?

I certainly see spiritual extortion in the church with the hell doctrine. "Believe, or burn."

To determine a right we must understand that it is apophatic in nature, meaning that a right is anything that isn't a wrong. What is enherently wrong can all be boiled down to theft of possession. Rightfully we posses and own our own body. Anything we possess we are responsible for, just like we are responsible for our own actions as talked about in my last post. If I start calling you names and putting you down as a person, spiritualy this is a theft of life. Rape is a theft of life. Tax is a theft of life. Murder is of course the ultimate theft of life.

On the flip side, giving food to somone is a gift of life. Giving kind compilemts to somone is a gift of life. Giving your physicle life for somone is of course the ultimate gift of life.

So anything that isnt a wrong is our enherent right. As long as we are not harming another sentient being, it is by law a right. Ill add that if we stuff the planet with pollution we are in fact stealing everyone's life on a whole. Our right to breath fresh air and the right to life of those to come.

So what if somone is trying to harm us? Do we have a right to defend ourself using force? Yes we do. It is our God given right to uphold what is right. If it came to it we are in every right to use fatal force. This is the principle of defence or the sword of justice. If we see somone robbing an old lady, it is infact our right to intervene.

Once again it all boils down to Truth. When we are aligned with Truth we are aligned with morality and can descern right from wrong in any given situation. This is by definition the act of Wisdom.

Its sad to see but the problem we see today is that most people do not know Truth, therefore they do not know the difference between right and wrong.

Internal anarchy = external control
Internal controle = external anarchy

We have been manipulated and decieved, fed virus belief systems and ideologies, the Truth has been swept under the rug and occulted, all to put us in a state of chaos and fear so that we are easy to manipulate and controle. We do not know the difference between right and wrong so how could we fight for it? We don't even know what a True right is and this is we we are losing them on a day to day basis. Man has eaten the apple and strayed far far from the place of eden.

If I came to your home and extorted you, would that be a right? Of course not. The government says on the other hand "well, the people gave us the right to do this." And I say that the right never existed in the first place, so how does somone give somone else a right that does not exist? Its all lies, theft and extortion. Mind controle and deception.

Any belief that is based in salvation is based in fear. Like I said in my earlier post, fear is the tool used to controle the people. Christianity is about Truth, freedom and sacrifice. The rest is nonsense.

 

[St. SteVen]

Any belief that is based in salvation is based in fear. Like I said in my earlier post, fear is the tool used to controle the people. Christianity is about Truth, freedom and sacrifice. The rest is nonsense.

Another very interesting post, thanks.
So, how do you separate salvation from Christianity?
Or is that not what you were saying?