What makes a doctrine false?

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Zachariah

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Belief in government = belief in slavery.
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John 20:29 esv
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Like I stated before, belief is a bad translation, not because the translators didn't do their job but because the English language lacks versatility and depth compared to Hebrew and Greek. We dont say we believe that 2+2=4 because we know it to be Truth. Truth does not require beleif as it is true.
 

quietthinker

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Like I stated before, belief is a bad translation, not because the translators didn't do their job but because the English language lacks versatility and depth compared to Hebrew and Greek. We dont say we believe that 2+2=4 because we know it to be Truth. Truth does not require beleif as it is true.
semantics is the big hide behind while trumpeting for transparency!
 

MatthewG

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'I am the way, the truth and the life'.....Jesus.
Conclusion, without knowing Jesus, thrashing around in the untamed undergrowth of imagination is inevitable.
Are you so sure? What about those who just seek God in faith? Loving God and loving others even if they do religious practice? Or only see the nature itself, saying “i believe there is someone greater than myself out there”, will God work in their mind and heart by the spirit?
 
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quietthinker

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Are you so sure? What about those who just seek God in faith? Loving God and loving others even if they do religious practice? Or only see the nature itself, saying “i believe there is someone greater than myself out there”, will God work in their mind and heart by the spirit?
'knowing' is beyond solely cognitive
 
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MatthewG

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'knowing' is beyond solely cognitive
Would you says its inheritly unknown to us until you discover a change with-in which is caused by something greater?

Because the things of God are not understood by our flesh?
 

quietthinker

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Would you says its inheritly unknown to us until you discover a change with-in which is caused by something greater?

Because the things of God are not understood by our flesh?
When you love you know. It is not a phenomena you need to prove with words while simultaneously it manifests in relating.
 
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Zachariah

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Belief in government = belief in slavery.
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Are you so sure? What about those who just seek God in faith? Loving God and loving others even if they do religious practice? Or only see the nature itself, saying “i believe there is someone greater than myself out there”, will God work in their mind and heart by the spirit?
In faith we have found God. We have attached ourself to something of unseen nature and unlimited potential. Hope is divine sight, where as faith is divine attachment.

Heb 11:1: "Faith shows the reality of what we hope for; it is the evidence of things we cannot see."
 

Patrick1966

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One's faith can come by simply observing the beauty of God's creation. One doesn't need a PHD in Bible Theology to believe in God or to be a faithful follower of Christ.

Romans 1:20
English Standard Version
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
 
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Zachariah

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One's faith can come by simply observing the beauty of God's creation. One doesn't need a PHD in Bible Theology to believe in God or to be a faithful follower of Christ.

Romans 1:20
English Standard Version
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
True. I would go one step further than that and say that one does not need any knowlage of the bible or even that it exists to experience God. However the Bible is a great way to get to know and form a relationship with God.

We judge man by his fruits, not what he claims to be. David Attenborough states he is an athiest yet he experience's God through his relationship with nature and his practice of wholistic thinking.
 
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Patrick1966

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True. I would go one step further than that and say that one does not need any knowlage of the bible or even that it exists to experience God. However the Bible is a great way to get to know and form a relationship with God.

Amen my brother.
 

Zao is life

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Christian doctrine should be biblically based. But it is indeed man-made.
If doctrine is God-given, why are there differing views? Is God undecided?

doctrine
dŏk′trĭn

noun​

  1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
a.k.a "the rudiments [stoicheîon] of this world":

Colossians 2:8:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [stoicheîon] of the world, and not after Christ.
No. Division is caused by not accepting that there are differing views.

Division is when I tell you that:
- your view is WRONG and my view is RIGHT.
- my view is SOUND doctrine, and your view is FALSE doctrine.
- my doctrine is GOD-GIVEN and yours is from HELL.
I fully agree. It's bullying, a tactic used by the "teachers" in both Catholic and the churches that grew out of the Protestant Reformation, and permeated the body of Christ over time, and it's part of the works [érgon] of men.

The word érgon always refers to works in the New Testament (without exception) - either the works of God, or to the works of Satan, or to the works of men.

Look at this, so we can keep the things you are talking about, in perspective (I'm not saying read all the verses, but look at the list, so you can see the doctrine of Christ and His apostles about this that follows this list):

VERSES THAT USE THE WORD érgon (WORKS) THAT ARE REFERRING TO THE érgon (WORKS) OF CHRIST AND OF GOD THE FATHER:-

Matthew 11:2; Luke 24:19; John 4:34; John 5:20; John 5:36; John 6:28; John 6:29; John 7:3; John 7:21; John 9:3; John 9:4; John 10:25; John 10:32; John 10:33; John 10:37; John 10:38; John 14:10; John 14:11; John 14:12; John 15:24; John 17:4; Acts 13:41; Acts 15:18; Romans 14:20; Philippians 1:6; Hebrews 1:10; Hebrews 2:7; Hebrews 3:9; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 4:4; Revelation 15:3.

VERSES THAT USE THE WORD érgon (WORKS) THAT ARE REFERRING TO THE érgon (WORKS) OF DARKNESS OR OF SATAN:-

Romans 13:12; II Corinthians 11:15; Ephesians 5:11; I John 3:8.

VERSES THAT USE THE WORD érgon (WORKS) THAT ARE REFERRING TO THE érgon (WORKS) OF MEN:-

Matthew 5:16; Matthew 23:3; Matthew 23:5; Matthew 26:10; Mark 13:34; Mark 14:6; Luke 11:48; John 3:19; John 3:20; John 3:21; John 7:7; John 8:39; John 8:41; Acts 5:38; Acts 7:22; Acts 7:41; Acts 9:36; Acts 13:2; Acts 14:26; Acts 15:38; Acts 26:20; Titus 2:14; Romans 2:6; Romans 2:7; Romans 2:15; Romans 3:20; Romans 3:27; Romans 3:28; Romans 4:2; Romans 4:6; Romans 9:11; Romans 9:32; Romans 11:6; Romans 13:3; Romans 15:18; I Corinthians 3:13; I Corinthians 3:14; I Corinthians 3:15; I Corinthians 5:2; I Corinthians 9:1; I Corinthians 15:58; I Corinthians 16:10; II Corinthians 9:8; II Corinthians 10:11; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:2; Galatians 3:5; Galatians 3:10; Galatians 5:19; Galatians 6:4; Ephesians 2:9; Ephesians 2:10; Ephesians 4:12; Philippians 1:22; Philippians 2:30; Colossians 1:10; Colossians 1:21; Colossians 3:17; I Thess 1:3; I Thess 5:13; II Thess 1:11; II Thess 2:17; I Timothy 2:10; I Timothy 3:1; I Timothy 5:10; I Timothy 5:25; I Timothy 6:18; II Timothy 1:9; II Timothy 2:21; II Timothy 3:17; II Timothy 4:5; II Timothy 4:14; II Timothy 4:18; Titus 1:16; Titus 2:7; Titus 3:1; Titus 3:5; Titus 3:8; Titus 3:14; Hebrews 4:10; Hebrews 6:1; Hebrews 6:10; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 10:24; Hebrews 13:21; James 1:4; James 1:25; James 2:14; James 2:17; James 2:18; James 2:20; James 2:21; James 2:22; James 2:24; James 2:25; James 2:26; James 3:13; I Peter 1:17; I Peter 2:12; II Peter 2:8; I John 3:12; I John 3:18; II John 1:11; III John 1:10; Jude 1:15; Revelation 2:2; Revelation 2:5; Revelation 2:6; Revelation 2:9; Revelation 2:13; Revelation 2:22; Revelation 2:23; Revelation 2:26; Revelation 2:19; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 3:2; Revelation 3:8; Revelation 3:15; Revelation 9:20; Revelation 14:13; Revelation 16:11; Revelation 18:6; Revelation 20:12; Revelation 20:13; Revelation 22:12.

So Peter tells us that the rudiments [stoicheîon] of this world and the works [érgon] of men are going to be burned up when Christ returns, and then there will be a new heavens and a new earth in which only righteousness dwells:

2 Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall [parérchomai] with a great noise, and the rudiments [stoicheîon] shall be dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat [kausóō], the earth also and the works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up [katakaíō].

Each one's work [ergon] shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work [ergon] as to what kind it is. If anyone's work [ergon] which he built remains, he shall receive a reward. If anyone's work [ergon] shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15)

In the mean time, we understand that God is allowing the weeds to grow with the wheat, until the body of Christ is purged (Matthew 24:13-30). He's allowing it so that the weeds do not remain hidden. How can you see the weeds unless you let them grow?

And if God is allowing both to grow together, who are we to try and stop it?

But you are right to point it out.

So what we need to understand is that only those who truly want to be like Christ will abide in Him and only those who abide in Him can ever produce the fruit of the Spirit, because without Him, we can do nothing.

My own engagement in the eschatology board has exposed my own lack of evidence of the fruit of the Spirit (to myself) a few times, I'm not pointing fingers - but the principle is that both the rudiments (doctrine:
  1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
of this world, plus the works (ergon) of men - including ours, because we say we believe in Jesus - are going to be burned up.

And in the mean time God is allowing both the wheat and tares to grow together.

Only some will hear what you are saying about this, and I fully agree with you, but also, keep it in perspective.
 
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Jan 23, 2022
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We seem to be at an impasse. - LOL
How and why a person believes, we can never know until Judgement Day. Fact is Christ died for the sins of everybody and took away the sins of the world. This must never be reduced to Him dying only for the elect, otherwise He would not be justified in claiming He could judge those He will ultimately reject. They would not be His to own or disown. "Many called but few are chosen", doesn't mean we are predetermined to be accepted or rejected. The choice depends on the call.
A clearer picture of God's purpose is given by the symbolism given in Genesis by the historical incident that happened to Adam and Eve. It shows that they had a choice to accept or reject God's commands. They were rejected because they disobeyed, not because they were predetermined to be rejected. Jacob was chosen to be the inheritor of the birth right before He was born, but Esau wasn't rejected fro this because he was pre-excluded from God's grace,if he really was, but that we all live at determined times and in destined ways, and have our lives marked by God in certain ways but we can choose much of what happens to and for us.
Not all sons born of Abraham could inherit the birth right, but only through Isaac. We must not misread one passage in the Holy Bible that to make it undo another. All the Bible is inspired by God. God desires all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. .
 

St. SteVen

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How and why a person believes, we can never know until Judgement Day. Fact is Christ died for the sins of everybody and took away the sins of the world. This must never be reduced to Him dying only for the elect, otherwise He would not be justified in claiming He could judge those He will ultimately reject. They would not be His to own or disown. "Many called but few are chosen", doesn't mean we are predetermined to be accepted or rejected. The choice depends on the call.
A clearer picture of God's purpose is given by the symbolism given in Genesis by the historical incident that happened to Adam and Eve. It shows that they had a choice to accept or reject God's commands. They were rejected because they disobeyed, not because they were predetermined to be rejected. Jacob was chosen to be the inheritor of the birth right before He was born, but Esau wasn't rejected fro this because he was pre-excluded from God's grace,if he really was, but that we all live at determined times and in destined ways, and have our lives marked by God in certain ways but we can choose much of what happens to and for us.
Not all sons born of Abraham could inherit the birth right, but only through Isaac. We must not misread one passage in the Holy Bible that to make it undo another. All the Bible is inspired by God. God desires all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. .
Welcome to the forum. Or should I say, forum participation. (only 7 posts since Jan 23, 2022)

What is your understanding of the Word that was from the beginning? The Word that became flesh?
Seems to me that God anticipated (orchestrated?) the Fall and the redemption that would follow.
 

brightfame52

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avbiblestudy

How and why a person believes, we can never know until Judgement Day.

Believers believe because of Grace, thats what scripture teaches Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: