What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Prayer Warrior]

I get into trouble sometimes because in Church I am like a kid in a candy store. Humor… sometimes I am direct, sometimes the humor is a little dry, prankster. Prayer Warrior does not get me sometimes. I am thinking of changing my avatar to a laughing clown with a bottle of whiskey in my hand and making my message at the bottom of the post, “I love Prayer Warrior!” Maybe she will get the point. Most of the time I am being playful…unless I am faced with evil…

Wow, GH, an avatar with that on it? For me? I'm so touched.

I do have one question for you. How do you define reality?

 

[Grailhunter]

Wow, GH, an avatar with that on it? For me? I'm so touched.

I do have one question for you. How do you define reality?

I think I did define reality. It a college course, the five senses and the limitations thereof. Can you study reality with only five senses? Physical reality, metaphysical reality, spiritual reality, and the reality of the cosmos. The physical is real, the Divine is real, and the cosmos is real. But the most understood concept of reality is personal. Live on a island by yourself your whole life and it is the universe. So to some extent, reality is what you perceive.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I think I did define reality. It a college course, the five senses and the limitations thereof. Can you study reality with only five senses? Physical reality, metaphysical reality, spiritual reality, and the reality of the cosmos. The physical is real, the Divine is real, and the cosmos is real. But the most understood concept of reality is personal. Live on a island by yourself your whole life and it is the universe. So to some extent, reality is what you perceive.

Okay, then I don't understand your definition. A college course? I took some college courses that were not reality.

 

[Grailhunter]

Okay, then I don't understand your definition. A college course? I took some college courses that were not reality.

I took some college courses that were not reality. Not sure what you mean by that?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I took some college courses that were not reality. Not sure what you mean by that?

Didn't you say that reality is a college course in the following comment? Maybe you left out a word.

I think I did define reality. It a college course, the five senses and the limitations thereof.

 

[Giuliano]

You compare understanding the TRUTH to describing a chair??

I thought perhaps I should tell you this line is why I haven't answered you. You missed my point and wrote this. I was not comparing "the TRUTH" to "describing a chair." I was trying to tell you how inadequate language is to describe simple earthly objects. How much more inadequate then would human language be when trying to convey a spiritual reality? You missed the point. I don't feel like persisting then when you resort to irrelevancies.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I thought perhaps I should tell you this line is why I haven't answered you. You missed my point and wrote this. I was not comparing "the TRUTH" to "describing a chair." I was trying to tell you how inadequate language is to describe simple earthly objects. How much more inadequate then would human language be when trying to convey a spiritual reality? You missed the point. I don't feel like persisting then when you resort to irrelevancies.

Sorry. I feel like an irrelevancy.

If you will give me another chance, I would like to discuss it with you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Didn't you say that reality is a college course in the following comment? Maybe you left out a word.

It a college course....yeap it is a college course.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

It a college course....yeap it is a college course.

So what did you mean by that?

 

[Grailhunter]

So what did you mean by that?

So what did you mean by that?

When you get into astrophysics and quantum mechanics, one of the topics is the perception of reality. What “things” really are. You and I discussed the story of the bridge…perception of reality, that it was stable, but it really was not.

I use to give this demonstration.
I would put an empty styrofoam cup on a table and ask them what it is doing? Most the answers were “nothing.” I would tell them that the cup had millions of atoms and with the atoms were millions more electrons traveling around a center…neutron and protons at a speed close to 186,000 miles an hour.

Then I would ask, “Is it moving?” Some would catch on and say it is moving with the earth and some would say it was standing still.Then I would explain that the cub was moving with the earth as it rotated at 2400 miles an hour…over half a mile a second. Then I would go on to explain....

The cup was traveling around the sun with the earth at over 66,000 thousand miles an hour, or 19 miles a second.

The cup was traveling with the solar system at 214,000 miles an hour or 60 miles a second.

The cup was traveling with the galaxy at 436,000 miles per hour or 121 miles a second.

The cup was actually a speedster and was humming and vibrating while it was doing it. The point being our perceptions are due to the limitation of our senses as they gather data from what is around us and deliver them to our brain. What is reality can be much different than we perceive it.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

When you get into astrophysics and quantum mechanics, one of the topics is the perception of reality. What “things” really are. You and I discussed the story of the bridge…perception of reality, that it was stable, but it really was not.

I use to give this demonstration.
I would put an empty styrofoam cup on a table and ask them what it is doing? Most the answers were “nothing.” I would tell them that the cup had millions of atoms and with the atoms were millions more electrons traveling around a center…neutron and protons at a speed close to 186,000 miles an hour.

Then I would ask, “Is it moving?” Some would catch on and say it is moving with the earth and some would say it was standing still.Then I would explain that the cub was moving with the earth as it rotated at 2400 miles an hour…over half a mile a second. Then I would go on to explain....

The cup was traveling around the sun with the earth at over 66,000 thousand miles an hour, or 19 miles a second.

The cup was traveling with the solar system at 214,000 miles an hour or 60 miles a second.

The cup was traveling with the galaxy at 436,000 miles per hour or 121 miles a second.

The cup was actually a speedster and was humming and vibrating while it was doing it. The point being our perceptions are due to the limitation of our senses as they gather data from what is around us and deliver them to our brain. What is reality can be much different than we perceive it.

Yes, we had this discussion going 200 miles per hour back some time ago. I wanted a chance to discuss it more calmly.

I see what you're saying about perception, but in reality the cup is moving with the earth even if we don't perceive the movement. This is true. So, is reality based on perception or is it based on what's true?

American Heritage Dictionary defines reality as the quality or state of being actual or true. This is their number one definition.

How would you compare reality with truth?

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, we had this discussion going 200 miles per hour back some time ago. I wanted a chance to discuss it more calmly.

I see what you're saying about perception, but in reality the cup is moving with the earth even if we don't perceive the movement. This is true. So, is reality based on perception or is it based on what's true?

American Heritage Dictionary defines reality as the quality or state of being actual or true. This is their number one definition.

How would you compare reality with truth?

American Heritage Dictionary defines reality as the quality or state of being actual or true.

The definition is correct. Easier to say than know. What is actually going on with everything? That is hard to know, even impossible to know. Pontius Pilate asked Christ what is truth? If you know a few things about the Romans you might know that he might not of been being facetious. Science tries to define reality through science. To some degree Christians and historians and archaeologists look to the articles of the past.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus, when you get going you say a mouthful. I was not disagreeing with you either, just adding a point, concerned with how you thinking. That is why I edited my post.

*disliking of the usage of the word, "reality"
*People here on this forum, and I guess everywhere, use the word, "reality", and the word, "literal", speaking of that they apparently perceive with the five natural/carnal senses of taste, touch, vision, hearing and smell as if this were it.

Now this was one of the reasons I was getting into the world thing. The study of reality, a college course, the five senses and the limitations thereof. Can you study reality with only five senses? Physical reality, metaphysical reality, spiritual reality, and the reality of the cosmos. But the real is here, and you have to pay attention.

What you understand and what you do not understand and do not see….is going on all around us. While your feet are on this earth you have to deal with the real…if you do not…..”We are wisps in the wind.”…..lost his kids. Turned it all over to God…..and he lost his kids. The Holy Spirit can lead us and God can protect us, but you have to deal with the real, or bad things happen. So my point, if to you…is that you need to embrace reality….it leads to bad things if you do not. As we get older reality changes and I get that too…..

I have given this pep talk many times…in church….and in jails. “Why do you take drugs” I asked a young man in jail. “Because I hate reality, man!” “You better embrace reality because this is killing you.” I replied. God is good, good is great, pass the ammo!

*For me I see this existence without God as more of an often unhappy fantasy world in which we dwell..

Unhappiness can make reality very sour. I remember my grandpa use to say, “The world is going to hell in a hand basket!’ Reality changes around us as we get older. Sometimes you make decisions and later you find out that they were really really good or really really bad, and then you have to live with them. My decision to be a Christian and embrace most religions has brought me nothing but happiness. You say, Existence without God…..” I am surprised you say that, because I know you have seen and felt the Holy Spirit in high gear! Nothing like it! I enjoy Christians, they are the body of Christ.

I get into trouble sometimes because in Church I am like a kid in a candy store. Humor… sometimes I am direct, sometimes the humor is a little dry, prankster. Prayer Warrior does not get me sometimes. I am thinking of changing my avatar to a laughing clown with a bottle of whiskey in my hand and making my message at the bottom of the post, “I love Prayer Warrior!” Maybe she will get the point. Most of the time I am being playful…unless I am faced with evil…

*but when these temporally perceived things are gone..

I agree....I see the return of Christ a lot different than most. I enjoy the Michael Jackson thing, but I see it as a time of rejoicing for those that have walked with Him. The concept of the “walk” is big part of my perception of my religion…everyday…I walk with Him. He is there for all that believe and we can do the right thing because we remember He is with us. Watching what we are doing, if you really believe that, you have a tendency to do the right thing. We can have confidence in our salvation because He is there all the time….if we stumble He will help us up….whether we are hugging the Christians are battling evil, He is there. God bless.

Praise the Lord my friend. I won't say more now with the exception of "existence without God". This is where people at times, or for maybe even all of the time, believe that they: in an existence without God. Of course it is not so. This is the fantasy. A song we used to sing in my earliest church association goes along with what you have said:

I believe that we now understand each other a little better.

 

[Grailhunter]

Praise the Lord my friend. I won't say more now with the exception of "existence without God". This is where people at times, or for maybe even all of the time, believe that they: in an existence without God. Of course it is not so. This is the fantasy. A song we used to sing in my earliest church association goes along with what you have said:

I believe that we now understand each other a little better.

Amadeus, if everyone understood the Lord as you do, they would be better off.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

American Heritage Dictionary defines reality as the quality or state of being actual or true.

The definition is correct. Easier to say than know. What is actually going on with everything? That is hard to know, even impossible to know. Pontius Pilate asked Christ what is truth? If you know a few things about the Romans you might know that he might not of been being facetious. Science tries to define reality through science. To some degree Christians and historians and archaeologists look to the articles of the past.

Okay, that was a safe answer.

I have another question for you. You said something about working on a book. Are you writing one?

 

[Grailhunter]

Okay, that was a safe answer.

I have another question for you. You said something about working on a book. Are you writing one?

1750 pages and probably 100 pages of appendixes. Will have to be broke up into volumes and will probably be an e-book when I get the permissions done. "The Cup, The Rose, and the Lamb"

 

[Prayer Warrior]

1750 pages and probably 100 pages of appendixes. Will have to be broke up into volumes and will probably be an e-book when I get the permissions done. "The Cup, The Rose, and the Lamb"

That’s a lot of pages! Is it fiction or nonfiction? What is it about?

 

[Grailhunter]

That’s a lot of pages! Is it fiction or nonfiction? What is it about?

It is about Christianity....nonfiction. The plan of God from creation to today.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

It is about Christianity....nonfiction. The plan of God from creation to today.

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make available as an e-book on Amazon?

Oh, and will it have paragraphs?

 

[Grailhunter]

Sounds interesting. Are you going to make available as an e-book on Amazon?

Probably.