What the Heck is Salvation? And what are we Saved From?

[shortangel]

Jesus is the only way to salvation, if we ask him into our hearts & confess our sins and recieves him by faith we will be saved, we don,t have to clean up our act first we come as we are, broken & not perfect, we are not perfect just forgiven

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus is the only way to salvation, if we ask him into our hearts & confess our sins and recieves him by faith we will be saved, we don,t have to clean up our act first we come as we are, broken & not perfect, we are not perfect just forgiven

Amen!

But then:

“…leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection” (Hebrews 6:1)

“As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1 Peter 2:2)

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The thoughts expressed in post No.7 were on my mind back in 1967 when
the extent of my religious training consisted of just enough catechism to
complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

The thoughts expressed in post No.9 were discovered in 1968 when,
at the suggestion of a friend, I had taken up reading a Bible for myself.
I was 24 years old.
_

 

[GEN2REV]

You are not accounting for the thief on the cross--just one example, who believed, then died with the promise of seeing Jesus that day in Paradise.

No ongoing "process", just believe and die. Period.

Good point.

I'll have to think about that.

That example contradicts a lot of Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

Good point.

I'll have to think about that.

That example contradicts a lot of Scripture.

Thank you for such a rational answer. I wish more people showed as much character.

As for contradictions, there really are none that don't have a rational explanation. Happy to discuss them. Incidentally, that is the model for being lead into all truth, as promised by Christ. That is, that what remains of truth should come from the Father who equips the saints with the Holy Spirit sent by Christ.

 

[GEN2REV]

Thank you for such a rational answer. I wish more people showed as much character.

As for contradictions, there really are none that don't have a rational explanation. Happy to discuss them. Incidentally, that is the model for being lead into all truth, as promised by Christ. That is, that what remains of truth should come from the Father who equips the saints with the Holy Spirit sent by Christ.

Well for starters, there is the verse of James about the belief of the demons who will never be saved. James 2:19

I'm thinking maybe it has to do with degrees of Faith, as Jesus spoke of the incredible faith of the soldier who told Jesus to simply speak it and it would be done. And Jesus commended him for his faith. We are told to hold fast to the faith that we possess in the beginning. Maybe that's the key to the mystery of the thief on the cross being saved so quickly. Not only did He have Jesus right in front of him so there would be no doubt whatsoever in his faith in Him, but he would be dying so soon, there would be no time for his faith to wane.

Maybe what we are commanded to do, and the process that unfolds for the average Christian who is accepted, is a process that keeps faith alive. We are told that works are an outward expression of our faith, maybe obedience is also an expression of the lively nature of our faith and also functions to bolster our faith and keep it fresh; along with the daily reading of God's Word, as Jesus says in John 6, it injects saving faith, quickening, eternal life into our spirit when we ingest God's Words.

Some recipe along those lines makes perfect sense to me. But I don't buy that the example of the thief on the cross completely negates all of the Scripture that tells us to obey, to endure, to preserve and protect our faith and so on and so forth. It is all very legitimate or it wouldn't be included in Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

Well for starters, there is the verse of James about the belief of the demons who will never be saved. James 2:19

I'm thinking maybe it has to do with degrees of Faith, as Jesus spoke of the incredible faith of the soldier who told Jesus to simply speak it and it would be done. And Jesus commended him for his faith. We are told to hold fast to the faith that we possess in the beginning. Maybe that's the key to the mystery of the thief on the cross being saved so quickly. Not only did He have Jesus right in front of him so there would be no doubt whatsoever in his faith in Him, but he would be dying so soon, there would be no time for his faith to wane.

Maybe what we are commanded to do, and the process that unfolds for the average Christian who is accepted, is a process that keeps faith alive. We are told that works are an outward expression of our faith, maybe obedience is also an expression of the lively nature of our faith and also functions to bolster our faith and keep it fresh; along with the daily reading of God's Word, as Jesus says in John 6, it injects saving faith, quickening, eternal life into our spirit when we ingest God's Words.

Some recipe along those lines makes perfect sense to me. But I don't buy that the example of the thief on the cross completely negates all of the Scripture that tells us to obey, to endure, to preserve and protect our faith and so on and so forth. It is all very legitimate or it wouldn't be included in Scripture.

James was referring to the evidence of faith if one is given the time.

But considering the salvation issue here would mean rightly dividing what pertains specifically to Israel, from that of the gentiles of the church age, as they are different sheep folds which Christ brings separately. So what Jesus said regarding the soldier's faith would was rather an example of faith, not speaking of his salvation, but of his faith, but to and for Israel. But, yes, if one needs more time, it is certainly conceivable that it could even take the rest of their natural life to come fully to the required point of surrender, or even belief. Such should be consider a half or divided belief, completely based on the person...much as it was with Thomas who doubted. But that is belief. Salvation however, is only salvation if it is total...kind of like pregnancy, you either are or you are not.

As for the thief, Jesus' hanging on the cross dying would not likely of bolstered his faith. But rather, just as the Jews railed on Him, saying, "If you are the Son of God, save yourself", it would more likely have cause unbelief. Based on the outcome, it is reasonable to say that Jesus know his heart and that he was totally given over to faith, believing just what Jesus said, and who He was. Again, totally given over to salvation, and no going back...which he had time for, but did not waver.

Again, yes, that process is certainly the experience of some according to their own measure of faith...as "with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

 

[MatthewG]

.


Self-sacrifice is one way; but it's neither the only way nor the most reliable
way. In point of fact, God himself has made an excellent way to stay in
Heaven that takes will power out of the equation.

• Jer 31:31-34 . . Behold, the days come-- declares The Lord --that I will
make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I
took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My
covenant they broke, although I was an husband unto them-- declares The
Lord.

. . . But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel:
After those days-- declares The Lord --I will put My law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My
people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every
man his brother, saying, "know The Lord" for they shall all know Me, from
the least of them unto the greatest of them

FAQ: The new covenant speaks of "My law". Where is it? When God codified
the old covenant, He wrote its law on some tables of stone. Why doesn't the
new covenant have tables of stone?

REPLY: Do you need a book of instructions on how to think, feel, and act like
a human? No; your human nature manages all that for you. In other words:
the law of human nature is in your inward parts and written in your heart.
(Rom 7:15-23)

Now, supposing that instead of the law of human nature, there was the law
of divine nature in your inward parts and written in your heart. How would
you think, feel, and act then? Well; I can tell you, with confidence, that you
wouldn't need a book of instructions to think, feel, and act divine because
the law of divine nature would manage all that for you. Is what I'm saying
possible? Yes.

• 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life
and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and
virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious
promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature.

That passage mentions "great and precious promises" relative to the divine
nature. Where are they? Well, they're contained in the language of the new
covenant quoted at the beginning of this posting. The promises are also
contained in the language of Ezek 36:24-28 which says:

"I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon
you, and you shall be clean from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.

. . . A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an
heart of flesh. And I will put My spirit within you, and cause you to walk in
My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments, and do them. And you shall
dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be My people,
and I will be your God."
_

Self-sacrifice to love God first, and to love others. To put ourselves last. Having faith in the Gospel of Christ.

Jesus is the very essence of one who showed complete self-sacrifice towards God and towards others. Hanging on a cross of course a judgment lead by the Jews, he said on the cross, forgive them they know not what they do. And the judgment and wrath would 40 years later come to pass on the Nation of Israel in Jerusalem.

Thank you for sharing your insights with me.

 

[RedFan]

I love the OP, but I'm still looking for posters' working definitions of "salvation." And I'm hoping to see your answers to the question, Can someone be "saved" yet not be guaranteed eternal life with God in heaven?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, don’t take my word for it.

From what I understand there are four ways to understand the word saved.

One of them pertain to being saved from Gods wrath which pertained only to the nation of Israel when Judgement was poured out.

One of them pertain to being saved from Satan and his Demons, Death, Hell/Sheol, which is when Jesus had returned and all things were placed beneath his feet. (I believe this done happend, and now all people are saved from these things).

The other one was… saved from Sin (as new life comes to a believer who now can have a life by the spirit as the only man dies from its former life of sin though it pops back up from time to time).

The fourth one is not a saved from, but a saved to and that being saved to the kingdom of Heaven by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in which is where salvation rest with him in Faith.

That is how I have been taught about the saved/salvation issue.

I love the OP, but I'm still looking for posters' working definitions of "salvation." And I'm hoping to see your answers to the question, Can someone be "saved" yet not be guaranteed eternal life with God in heaven?

The post above is what I shared with others though most may believe I’m crazy for thinking so, it was what has been taught to me about the four definitions of “saved”.

 

[GEN2REV]

James was referring to the evidence of faith if one is given the time.

But considering the salvation issue here would mean rightly dividing what pertains specifically to Israel, from that of the gentiles of the church age, as they are different sheep folds which Christ brings separately. So what Jesus said regarding the soldier's faith would was rather an example of faith, not speaking of his salvation, but of his faith, but to and for Israel. But, yes, if one needs more time, it is certainly conceivable that it could even take the rest of their natural life to come fully to the required point of surrender, or even belief. Such should be consider a half or divided belief, completely based on the person...much as it was with Thomas who doubted. But that is belief. Salvation however, is only salvation if it is total...kind of like pregnancy, you either are or you are not.

As for the thief, Jesus' hanging on the cross dying would not likely of bolstered his faith. But rather, just as the Jews railed on Him, saying, "If you are the Son of God, save yourself", it would more likely have cause unbelief. Based on the outcome, it is reasonable to say that Jesus know his heart and that he was totally given over to faith, believing just what Jesus said, and who He was. Again, totally given over to salvation, and no going back...which he had time for, but did not waver.

Again, yes, that process is certainly the experience of some according to their own measure of faith...as "with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

Well, ok then, Scott.

Seems to me you always create a way to twist anything I say into an opposite perspective. Kinda proves it's not a sincere perspective, just a desperate need to differ, I guess.

Alrighty then.

 

[ScottA]

Well, ok then, Scott.

Seems to me you always create a way to twist anything I say into an opposite perspective. Kinda proves it's not a sincere perspective, just a desperate need to differ, I guess.

Alrighty then.

What?

I took the time to be reasonable, concluding that salvation is defined by, and not salvation until it is total.

You don't see that as legitimate and necessary?

 

[quietthinker]

If I might be so bold as to say so, for all the words you guys make, you just don't get it! You quote out of context and cobble theories from imagination.
......and what are you going to tell people anyway? ...a truck load of advice as to what they should do to be saved?
hmmmmm, maybe you'll fire back at me for this outburst but take what is said seriously?....I doubt it! ....seems your cup is full of your 'irrefutable' imagination.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There appears to be some confusion as to what actually constitutes salvation, how it is procured, and how, even whether, it needs to be retained. There are threads all over the place discussing various aspects of the gospel from go to woe (perhaps an unfortunate pun) but what prompted this particular thread was a discussion between @mailmandan and @Bible Highlighter in the current Sabbath thread. This discussion is over the topic of sanctification, and whether such a concept is a works based process, or grace based process, whether it's a process at all or a declaration, and whether it's even necessary for salvation. So. Lots to talk about... Lots of questions... And I have to wonder to be honest why it is we are even finding it necessary to discuss this at all so late in Earth's history. But here we are. And we do need to discuss it. I think understanding how we are saved is kinda important don't you?

I don't want this to turn into a debate or argument however. (Fat chance though right). This is too important to go down the I'm right and you're wrong path. Let's try please to keep it as a true Bible study. And I do have another request. Can we please refrain from 29 paragraph posts. I don't want copy paste university PhD dissertations. Let's please keep it civil, respectful, maybe for those of us less enlightened... Enlightening. God bless you all as you contribute.

Extremely great question, you are so correct most have no idea what salvation is, even though it is extremely simple. It means you have received the gift of everlasting life, simple as that. Until people have received it, they are not saved. Many look at it as if I died now would I go to heaven, but that is not correct. We can at this time be in a condition that if Jesus returned at this exact moment, we would be saved, but we have to maintain our integrity until the end to be in that saved state. Mat 24:13

 

[Brakelite]

All would agree, (and I think that is a great place to start... Where we agree) that Christ was the antitype/fulfillment of the Passover Lamb. Right?
KJV 1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us :
So would we also agree that studying the services of the sanctuary, the meaning of the feasts and sacrifices and furniture and the role of the priests, even to the details of their garments, would be a great way of learning more of Christ and the plan of salvation?

 

[GEN2REV]

What?

I took the time to be reasonable, concluding that salvation is defined by, and not salvation until it is total.

You don't see that as legitimate and necessary?

This interpretation ...

James was referring to the evidence of faith if one is given the time.

... of this verse James 2:19 isn't even close. You can't even be honestly misunderstanding this verse. You are using effort to misinterpret that verse to suit your purpose.

And this ...

Again, yes, that process is certainly the experience of some according to their own measure of faith...as "with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."

... you talk about rightly dividing Scripture?

That verse Matthew 7:2 is speaking of judgment and how we judge others. You are hijacking that verse, changing its meaning and using it to support your own false teaching.

Well, you have mastered being like God in one way; I'll give you that.

You don't change.

 

[GEN2REV]

Can someone be "saved" yet not be guaranteed eternal life with God in heaven?

I think the following verses answer that question well, Redfan. You have to study them out and decide for yourself. Asking others will only confuse, and often mislead, you.

In this verse, you can't forsake (abandon) something you never had.
1 Chronicles 28:9

In these 2 verses, Jesus specifically states these people were 'IN' Him at one time. That is belief, and that is on the road to salvation. That is name in the Book of Life.
John 15:2
John 15:6

In this verse, these are Christians without a doubt. They believe strongly, they cast out demons and are all shocked to be turned away.
Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus is the only way to salvation, if we ask him into our hearts & confess our sins and recieves him by faith we will be saved, we don,t have to clean up our act first we come as we are, broken & not perfect, we are not perfect just forgiven

The wages of sin is death.
Simply put, we are saved from death. The gift of God by grace through faith in Christ is eternal life.
I guess if I was to expound on what death is, physically and spiritually ... I'll need 28 more paragraphs.

 

[GEN2REV]

The wages of sin is death.
Simply put, we are saved from death. The gift of God by grace through faith in Christ is eternal life.

And as we see here ... John 5:29, Daniel 12:2 ... that eternal life can be eternal peace or eternal shame and contempt.

That is up to us based on our conduct after we have found God. Will we obey and commit or will we use the liberation from sin's power for our own pleasures and purposes?

If we are wise with our blessings, ... Daniel 12:3 ... and if we are foolish, ... John 15:2, John 15:6, Matthew 7:21-23, 1 Chronicles 28:9.

 

[ScottA]

This interpretation ...

How about "saved" being past tense?

Is that not so simple we should be ashamed not to understand or interpret it as such?