What to do about Carnal moments.

[Behold]

Amen...and we do good works because we are righteous.

And we can do them and not be saved.
In both cases, they are meaningless for the same reason.
Works of righteousness that we do, are not righteous as compared to God's Righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

And we can do them and not be saved.

I agree.

In both cases, they are meaningless for the same reason.

The works that we do that are gold, silver, and precious gems will stand the test of fire and will amount to a reward in the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

Works of righteousness that we do, are not righteous as compared to God's Righteousness.

See Revelation 19:8 (kjv).

Rev 19:8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In some translations, "the righteous acts of the saints."

Works of righteousness that we do in God are His works; they are the result of Him living His life in us and through us (Galatians 2:20). As such, these righteous acts are righteous even as He is righteous; and the person doing them is righteous even as He is righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Behold]

Rev 19:8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Any Righteousness, found in the time of the Gentiles, is not related to the person.
We have none of our own...
If we did, then Jesus didn't have to die on the Cross, to give us His.

 

[Truther]

Yes, you will have carnal moments.
We have a mind, we live in a body, we are surrounded by sensuality and worse.
However, You can't walk around with your eyes closed..

So don't confuse a feeling of guilt, with the HS.
Many do this...

When you have a MENTAL moment that isn't the clean and the pure, then get out of that mind. Send it away from your thoughts.
YOU control that..
Thats all you have to do.
You dont have to repent, because once you start there, you will dwell on that mental situation and it will become your mind.
What happens is that the more you try to deal with your own sin, the more this causes you to be sin conscious, which then drives the flesh and makes the problem more profound in your flesh.
So, instead of dwelling on what it was that you did, or thought, just get out of that mind., as that mind is the Flesh.

Something to realize and something to remember....
Every sin you commit...(work of the flesh), is instantly IN THE PAST. And the blood of Jesus is always coming forward from the Cross endlessly redeeming you and keeping you clean. So, every sin (work of the flesh) you commit, is instantly in the PAST and the CLEANSING BLOOD of Christ is always in the NOW, going into the FUTURE< always keeping you redeemed.

You dont have to confess or repent or feel guilty., as all that keeps you in that carnal mind., and that mind is flesh, or it would not have been dwelling on that which you now feel bad about.

Trying to resist sin in you own power causes you to sin more.
Dwelling on how bad you feel about it, causes you to think about it more, which allows the Law to cause your flesh to be more involved and more involved. That is the TRAP that is found when you are repenting and confessing, to try to clear yourself and make yourself "right" again.. with God.
Understand, that you are always right with God, and when you have a carnal moment, or do a carnal work of the flesh,....dont then lose your mind INTO the dwelling guilty place, as that place will keep you doing it and feeling condemned which keeps you doing it .
The idea is to not exit in that mind of the flesh, as if you do, the dominion of the law will actually inflame your lust.
You have to stay out from UNDER all that, which is to live in the place of Grace.

"The power of SIN.....is the LAW"... Its not your flesh.
So, when you try to will yourself to do better, or will yourself to stop doing some sin, you are actually empowering the Law to cause you to want to do it more..

You will never stop sinning by trying to stop sinning.....that is the "curse of the Law"...that rules.
So, you have to see this verse....."Jesus has redeemed you from the CURSE of the Law"..
And this verse.... "You are not under the Law, you are under GRACE"..

And this verse...>"Sin shall not have dominion over you"...

And this verse..>>"The power of SIN, is the LAW"..

So, get away from all the striving to be better, and do better, as that is what gives the Law power over you to cause you to want to sin more and more.

What you do, is learn to live in the place of God's GRACE.
You learn to see yourself as God sees you..."RIGHTEOUS"....and you learn to BELIEVE THIS, instead of thinking of yourself as a "saved sinner".

LIVE HERE : = Hebrews 13:9

When you LEARN to only see yourself as God sees you, you will REST from fighting sin, and you will find that its by RESTING IN GOD, .. In God's GRACE, that you find your spiritual power that is your VICTORY OVER SIN.

You have to get there.
Start today.

I have found that the only way to overcome the urge to sin is by praying in the Spirit and letting God take over my flesh.

This causes my mind to be distracted from carnal thoughts and attracted to God.

If I cease to practice this type of praying, in just a few days, I will revert back to dominant carnal thoughts.

I know of no other way to control sin in my life but with God taking over as I pray through.

 

[justbyfaith]

Any Righteousness, found in the time of the Gentiles, is not related to the person.
We have none of our own...
If we did, then Jesus didn't have to die on the Cross, to give us His.

If righteousness is indeed given to us, then it now belongs to us. Of course it is Christ's righteousness that is given to us.

Even a practical righteousness wherein we become righteous even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7, Matthew 5:6, Romans 5:19.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, you will have carnal moments.
We have a mind, we live in a body, we are surrounded by sensuality and worse.
However, You can't walk around with your eyes closed..

So don't confuse a feeling of guilt, with the HS.
Many do this...

When you have a MENTAL moment that isn't the clean and the pure, then get out of that mind. Send it away from your thoughts.
YOU control that..
Thats all you have to do.
You dont have to repent, because once you start there, you will dwell on that mental situation and it will become your mind.
What happens is that the more you try to deal with your own sin, the more this causes you to be sin conscious, which then drives the flesh and makes the problem more profound in your flesh.
So, instead of dwelling on what it was that you did, or thought, just get out of that mind., as that mind is the Flesh.

Something to realize and something to remember....
Every sin you commit...(work of the flesh), is instantly IN THE PAST. And the blood of Jesus is always coming forward from the Cross endlessly redeeming you and keeping you clean. So, every sin (work of the flesh) you commit, is instantly in the PAST and the CLEANSING BLOOD of Christ is always in the NOW, going into the FUTURE< always keeping you redeemed.

You dont have to confess or repent or feel guilty., as all that keeps you in that carnal mind., and that mind is flesh, or it would not have been dwelling on that which you now feel bad about.

Trying to resist sin in you own power causes you to sin more.
Dwelling on how bad you feel about it, causes you to think about it more, which allows the Law to cause your flesh to be more involved and more involved. That is the TRAP that is found when you are repenting and confessing, to try to clear yourself and make yourself "right" again.. with God.
Understand, that you are always right with God, and when you have a carnal moment, or do a carnal work of the flesh,....dont then lose your mind INTO the dwelling guilty place, as that place will keep you doing it and feeling condemned which keeps you doing it .
The idea is to not exit in that mind of the flesh, as if you do, the dominion of the law will actually inflame your lust.
You have to stay out from UNDER all that, which is to live in the place of Grace.

"The power of SIN.....is the LAW"... Its not your flesh.
So, when you try to will yourself to do better, or will yourself to stop doing some sin, you are actually empowering the Law to cause you to want to do it more..

You will never stop sinning by trying to stop sinning.....that is the "curse of the Law"...that rules.
So, you have to see this verse....."Jesus has redeemed you from the CURSE of the Law"..
And this verse.... "You are not under the Law, you are under GRACE"..

And this verse...>"Sin shall not have dominion over you"...

And this verse..>>"The power of SIN, is the LAW"..

So, get away from all the striving to be better, and do better, as that is what gives the Law power over you to cause you to want to sin more and more.

What you do, is learn to live in the place of God's GRACE.
You learn to see yourself as God sees you..."RIGHTEOUS"....and you learn to BELIEVE THIS, instead of thinking of yourself as a "saved sinner".

LIVE HERE : = Hebrews 13:9

When you LEARN to only see yourself as God sees you, you will REST from fighting sin, and you will find that its by RESTING IN GOD, .. In God's GRACE, that you find your spiritual power that is your VICTORY OVER SIN.

You have to get there.
Start today.

I wouldn't probably say this using the same exact words, but I believe there is some profound truths in what you say here, and some pretty good advice. You're right, we should let smaller acts of corruption, such as sensual thoughts or malicious thoughts, go straight to the trash bin, and end up in the past. We are walking in a stream of grace, and we need to let the corruption go by us, even if we halt for a moment to look at it. We all do look at it, and need to in a sense repent and acknowledge our weakness, but just let it go. We don't need a formal prayer at a literal altar to obtain forgiveness. It's always there, particularly for these smaller sins.

The point is that we should choose not to stay there. And if we do try to deal with our sin by human effort, to prove our repentance, then we will cut ourselves off from the grace of God. The only thing we can do is confess our sin, and then choose to go on in the grace of God. We cannot change ourselves--we can only choose to obey God through the grace He has given us in Christ.

This is profound and difficult to say. Many people try to repent and prove their repentance by human effort, by doing things that make them feel as if they changed, without relying on the grace of Christ. For example, they may punish themselves by doing all kinds of things to prove how good they can be. But if they do this apart from grace, they will only prove they are worse sinners!

Righteousness comes from God, and not by independent human effort to do good. So when we fail, we need to immediately return to the grace of God so that our efforts to be good will come from Him, and we can simply let our failures go.

Any remedial action from the Lord, or any corrective discipline from Him, is not within our domain. We can't do that either--it must come from the Lord. We need not do anything--just return to walking in the Lord. If the Lord sees our need for greater discipline, it will come as we serve Him--not by our choosing to concoct some form of self-chastisement.

 

[LC627]

Some thoughts are intrusive thoughts that are involuntary - if we dwell / focus on those then we will create more mental burden for ourselves. I heard this example one: We can't help if a bird flies over our head, but we choose to let it nest there.

As we grow and continue to walk on the Spirit I believe those carnal moments will become less and less - we see them for what they are - the flesh. Submit them to the obedience of Christ and go on your way continuing to live the life of faith by the power of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

The key to victory is being delivered from the law (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6).

Because the principle of the law is that sin takes advantage of it in order to produce in you all manner of concupiscence (Romans 7:8) and the motions of sins, which bring forth fruit unto death, are also by the law (Romans 7:5).

You can get a hold of victory if you go to my thread on the wet paint principle (will post a link shortly):

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[Behold]

I have found that the only way to overcome the urge to sin is by praying in the Spirit and letting God take over my flesh.

This causes my mind to be distracted from carnal thoughts and attracted to God.

If I cease to practice this type of praying, in just a few days, I will revert back to dominant carnal thoughts.

I know of no other way to control sin in my life but with God taking over as I pray through.

I answered your post with a Thread.

"The wrong Cross"

 

[mailmandan]

There are those who "believe" who will in time of temptation fall away (Luke 8:13).

Such will not continue to be saved.

These were those whose faith was nominal, lukewarm, and shallow.

Even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" in a shallow way and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation. Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief.

 

[Taken]

Behold -

I agree with many of the points you have made...

But I disagree with your wording of this:

Every sin you commit...(work of the flesh), is instantly IN THE PAST.

Every sin you "commit" is a Present.
A commission of a "present sin" does not "Become" a PAST sin.

People have a Great Misunderstanding of What SIN means...
Who Sin Applies To...
When it Applies, To WHOM, And WHY.

Sin in the OT "WAS"
Was IN ALL FLESH men Naturally Born.
ANY man in Disbelief in God.
ANY man WHO agreed to Follow/ Obey God, then didn't.
Laws were established, FOR men TO Learn & know...
* what behavior of a man WAS Against God
* what behavior of a man WAS Against men
* what were the Consequences for being AGAINST God or Men.
* what it was CALLED...to Be "Against GOD
AND Gods People...."
Called SIN.

These thing were Writtento Laws.
These LAWS Applied TO:
Hebrews
Tribes
....Because THEY AGREED to have those Laws Apply to Them.

EX 19:
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Jer 42:
[20] For ye dissembled in your hearts, when ye sent me unto the LORD your God, saying, Pray for us unto the LORD our God; and according unto all that the LORD our God shall say, so declare unto us, and we will do it.

Even some Gentiles made the Same declarations to The Hebrew/Jewish God...and Their testimony accepted.

NT- a Better Testament.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Two Laws - instead of 600 + Laws.
SIN - * Naturally Born in SIN - same as OT
SIN - * Disbelief IN God - same as OT
SIN - * Disbelief IN Jesus IS:
.........,* the Word of God
.........,* the Son of God
.........,* the Christ Messiah

Different between OT and NT

OT Law - was NOT Destroyed.
Any man Can Continue or Commit to OT Law.

Any man Can choose to Not be Under OT Law;
AND instead to be Under Grace;

Lord Jesus Offers All men, God Grace of PERMANENT Forgiveness FOR:
* Having been Naturally Born in Sin.
* Having corrupted "Gods soul" within their Corrupt Flesh.
* Having "Committed" their SIN of Disbelief...(in Gods Life, and His Word, and His Truth.)


SIN -* of man Against man, Under OT LAW.
SIN -* of man's Against man, does not Apply for a man Under Grace.

A man Under Grace IS Forgiven All of his SINS...
Of his Corrupt Flesh, Against God.
Of his Corrupt soul, Against God.
Of his Corrupt Disbelief, Against Gods Life, Word, Truth.

Bottom line... SIN for a man NOT Under "Mosaic Law"... IS When ...
A man commits an Offense Against The Lord God.
The Lord God is the ONE WHO Can and Will Forgive a man.

Can a man UNDER Mosaic Law...SIN Against God? Yes
Sin Against another man? Yes.
Be forgiven of Sin, by another man? Yes.

Can a man UNDER Grace ... SIN Against The Lord God? No.
SIN Against another man? No
Be forgiven of Sin, by another man? No

Men Under Grace ARE "Freed" From SIN...(and For thereafter going forward....Can SIN "NO MORE"
Their FLESH Body is Forgiven and "Crucified" DEAD...By God.
Their SOUL is Forgiven & "Restored" ...By God
(Psalms 23)
Their spirit (natural Truth/ in their heart), Is Born Again...By Gods Power, Gods Seed, Gods Truth.

So What IS IT Called that a man UNDER Grace is AGAINST another man?
TRESSPASS

Gods Word Teaches to learn, what a Trespass Against another man IS, do your best to Not Trespass Against other men, if you do Trespass Against another man, Fix it, Own it, Confess it to the other, Return, Replace, Pay, Apologize, Commit to Turn about and not Trespass Against them. Ask for "them" FOR "their" Forgiveness.
AND when An Other man Trespasses Against YOU, "IF they" ask for Forgiveness...Forgive "Them" and IN KIND the Lord God (without Asking) , Will forgive you your Trespasses Against other men.

A man UNDER Mosaic LAW "CAN SIN" Against other men.

A man (Converted in Christ) UNDER GRACE "CAN NOT" SIN Against God or Other men.

A man Converted IN Christ IS UNDER GRACE, and IS TOTALY "Freed" from Sin...By the Holy Spirit (power) of God...that IS Dwelling WITH THAT man.

Rom 6:
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Either a man IS crucified, or he is not.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Either a man IS Born Again of Gods Seed, or he is not.

Men regularly Claim...To be Born Again AND claim To Sin. <--- > Gods OWN Word proclaims That IS NOT Possible.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

Even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" in a shallow way and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation. Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief.

The shallow ground hearer is saved for all practical purposes; just not as concerning election.

But for the time that he believes, Jesus saves him from his sins (Matthew 1:21).

 

[mailmandan]

The shallow ground hearer is saved for all practical purposes; just not as concerning election.

But for the time that he believes, Jesus saves him from his sins (Matthew 1:21).

Say what? The shallow ground hearer represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly rooted and established). The same Greek word for "believe" (pisteuo) is also used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" (pisteuo) "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" to some level or degree but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation. As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their "belief" was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

 

[Truther]

Say what? The shallow ground hearer represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly rooted and established). The same Greek word for "believe" (pisteuo) is also used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons "believe" (pisteuo) "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" to some level or degree but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation. As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their "belief" was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

The reason the demons' faith cannot save them is simply because they cannot couple their faith with baptism per Mark 16:16.

Same with anti-baptism teachers.

 

[mailmandan]

The reason the demons' faith cannot save them is simply because they cannot couple their faith with baptism per Mark 16:16.

Same with anti-baptism teachers.

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. That’s why their faith cannot save them. Their trust and reliance is in Satan and not in Jesus, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works

 

[Truther]

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. That’s why their faith cannot save them. Their trust and reliance is in Satan and not in Jesus, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works

I disagree.

The devils cannot believe and be baptized to be saved per Mark 16:16, the same goes for humans that omit water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

 

[mailmandan]

I disagree.

The devils cannot believe and be baptized to be saved per Mark 16:16, the same goes for humans that omit water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.

You sound like you have more faith in water baptism to save you than you do in Jesus to save you.

 

[justbyfaith]

You sound like you have more faith in water baptism to save you than you do in Jesus to save you.

Through water baptism in Jesus' Name, a man identifies with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection; dies and is buried and raised with Him.

It is in fact through faith in the operation of God that this even avails for a man.

 

[mailmandan]

The devils cannot believe and be baptized to be saved per Mark 16:16

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Romans 10:13, the word "shall" is used as terminology that indicates absoluteness.

The same terminology is in Mark 16:16.

While in John 3:16 the terminology is iffy with the word "should".

So, whether you get baptized or call upon the name of the Lord or both...these will produce absolute salvation and absolute assurance of salvation...while merely believing will produce an iffy salvation that you can't go to the bank on.