You just systematically debunked Jesus per Mark 16:16.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
What I did was properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. If he who believes will be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized (Mark 16:16) will be saved as well, although it's the lack of belief that causes condemnation (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) and not the lack of baptism.
No sir....faith in the name of Jesus Christ.
The name remits sins...no name, no remission.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins....
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Are you are Oneness Pentecostal? That would explain a lot. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
There is a "shall be saved" in receiving baptism in Jesus' Name that will give absolute assurance where there was none before if anyone will just take the plunge.
I was oneness(a teacher of it).Are you are Oneness Pentecostal? That would explain a lot. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).
In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.
*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
I still teach Acts 2:38, but I teach Jesus was not incarnated now.
I teach Jesus was a redo of the 1st Adam and made God by the Col 2:9 effect on his resurrected, quickening spirit body.
And yes...the Gentiles were baptized(Acts 10) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins by the same guy that baptized 3000 Jews at Pentecost the same way.
You seem to be saying that Acts is the only inspired book.
I don't skip Acts...I've been baptized in Jesus' Name myself.
It appears to me that you are skipping John's writings.
If you have Acts 2:38 in your experience, do you offer another alternative to sinners than you have?
Acts is the book of the Apostles' actions, which we should emulate for all humanity.
We must duplicate their doctrine and experience to know we are in that true church, then tell sinners the same.
The 4 gospels explains sinners to Jesus, Acts officially introduces sinners to Jesus, then the Epistles show the saints how to stay in Jesus.
I prefer to soft-sell Acts 2:38 salvation.
Mark 16:16 whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved.
John 3:16 whosoever merely believeth should not perish.
Romans 10:13 whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
In Acts 2:38 if anyone is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins, they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 11:13, your heavenly Father shall give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Just as I thought.
Jesus is God in the flesh. (John 1:1,14) Colossians 2:9 (AMP) - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Notice that these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE they received water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) The phrase, "in the name of Jesus Christ," is not a reference to a legalistic baptismal formula that when recited, obtains salvation, but is a reference to authority. To baptize in Jesus' name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus.
In Matthew 28:19, Jesus said Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The proper way to baptize in the authority of Jesus is to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
Cornelius and friends were a unique bunch. They were converted at a time in which the church was in transition. The circumcision group had a great degree of control and this affected Peter. So God did a work, to include Gentiles in the fold, by proving that Gentiles could be saved, when He gave them the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues. Notice that Peter made sure that they were baptized who had been saved. "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the gift of the Holy Spirit even as we?"
The name is important, and it does indeed represent authority. But without the name you don't have the authority.
Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Therefore, if water baptism saves; and 1 Peter 3:20-21 (kjv) indicates that it might; then baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only thing that will do the trick.
1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Actually, in Colossians 3:17 it says that whatsoever you are going to do in word or deed, it needs to be done in the name of Jesus Christ. And I would say that baptizing people is something that we do in word and deed.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Regardless of the church being in transition in the book of Acts, these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)
The name absolutely represents authority. Acts 4:7 - "And when they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, "By what power, or in what name, have you done this?" 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead by this name this man stands here before you in good health."
Acts 4:17 - "But in order that it may not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to any man in this name. 18 And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus.
Acts 5:40 - "And they took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them to speak no more in the name of Jesus, and then released them."
Acts 8:12 - "But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike."
Acts 9:27 - "But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he was with them moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord."
Acts 16:18 - "And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."
Amen!
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).
Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE in the ARK. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.
Baptizing people is something that we do in the name/authority of Jesus Christ "after" we believe the gospel and obtain salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Romans 1:16)
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While baptism does not remove the filth of the flesh, it does wash away sins (Acts of the Apostles 22:16)
1 Peter 3:20 (kjv) would contradict that statement; regardless of your ensuing argument against it.
Again,
1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
In Acts 2:38, baptism is accomplished for the remission of sins and the receiving of the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 10:43-47, a special circumstance is taking place in order that Gentiles might be included in the body of Christ despite the opposition of the circumcision group.
I believe that you were referencing Acts 15:7-9 in conjunction with the above passage. And it actually proves my point.
As for Romans 1:16, it should be clear that the promise of the Holy Ghost as the result of water baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38) is an aspect of the gospel that the verse is talking about.
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I know that I would be considered "narrow-minded" over the fact that I hold to a kjv-superior philosophy of the scriptures. I would just point out the following:
Mat 7:13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
This is what happens when people don't properly harmonize scripture with scripture. Here is an excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?
Not at all. Noah was saved by the ARK "through (via) water." Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ARK. The ARK is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of salvation.
As I already explained, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.
Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. So everyone who "believes in Him" is not merely a "special circumstance" or an "exception to the rule" for these Gentiles. Notice there are numerous verses in scripture that make it clear that man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:39; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
No, the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) *No mention of baptism and baptism is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.
What does "representative" washing away of sins mean?
I cannot address all of the points in the article; but I will say that it has been said that the blood is in the water.
All of this as an attempt to dissuade a man who is contemplating baptism in Jesus' Name from taking the step forward in receiving it.
As it is written in Ezekiel,
Eze 13:22, Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Water baptism "pictures" the washing away of sins, but plain ordinary H20 has no power to literally wash away our sins. Also, the blood is not literally in the water. In Colossians 1:14, "through His blood" is a reference, not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is also used similarly to refer to the atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16).
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