What to do about Carnal moments.

[mailmandan]

All of this as an attempt to dissuade a man who is contemplating baptism in Jesus' Name from taking the step forward in receiving it.

As it is written in Ezekiel,

Eze 13:22, Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

Nonsense. I have never dissuaded man from seeking believers baptism after conversion. I only dissuade people from trusting in water baptism for salvation instead of trusting in Jesus Christ alone. As for me, I received Christ through faith several years ago on a Saturday night and was water baptized on Sunday morning. I actually could not wait to get water baptized and I even gave a 5 minute testimony on how I came to receive Christ through faith, but I did not remain lost in my sins until I was water baptized on Sunday morning. I was saved on Saturday night the moment that I placed my faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Praise God!

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

What are trusting in for salvation? Jesus Christ + water baptism or Jesus Christ ALONE? As for me, it's Jesus Christ ALONE.

 

[justbyfaith]

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. So everyone who "believes in Him" is not merely a "special circumstance" or an "exception to the rule" for these Gentiles.

And the point that I am making is that baptism has the power to save a person who believes.

I would point out also that in the gospel of Luke, the scribes and Pharisees had a hard time believing because they had not received the baptism of John (Luke 7:29-30).

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:7-9 is referring back to what had happened in Acts 10; where Peter made an apt statement; "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost even as we?"

You do not seem to be wanting to forbid water; but you do seem to be attempting to dissuade the believer from receiving baptism in water.

No, the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

*No mention of baptism and baptism is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17)

1 Corinthians 1:17, yes.

Paul had baptized none but Crispus and Gaius, in verse 14. However, you must realize that this was Corinth; and if you do your homework you will find that there were many who were baptized through Paul's ministry in Corinth (see Acts of the Apostles 18:8). Therefore I conclude that Paul took a similar practice concerning baptism as did Jesus in John 4:2.

To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Again, baptism in Jesus' Name is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

Acts 2:38 stands as a conditional promise by which a man can receive absolutely the promise of the Holy Ghost. It is not about ritual but a point of contact for faith so that a man can receive the promised Holy Ghost by fulfilling the condition to a promise found in holy scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nonsense. I have never dissuaded man from seeking believers baptism after conversion. I only dissuade people from trusting in water baptism for salvation instead of trusting in Jesus Christ alone.

There are those who have indeed been saved through the waters of baptism. Again, see Luke 7:29-30. Faith comes into the heart as the result of going into and coming up out of the water. As they identify with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, something happens in the heart that enables them afterward to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:1-4).

 

[mailmandan]

And the point that I am making is that baptism has the power to save a person who believes.

Again, plain ordinary H20 has no power to save.

I would point also out that in the gospel of Luke, the scribes and Pharisees had a hard time believing because they had not received the baptism of John (Luke 7:29-30).

Luke 7:29 - When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they justified God/acknowledged God's justice, (signified by) having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, (signified by) not having been baptized by John. Baptism did not magically make them become disciples of John but their decision to become disciples of John was signified in baptism. Becoming a disciple of John was a heart decision that they made prior to becoming water baptized. Believing precedes water baptism.

Acts 15:7-9 is referring back to what had happened in Acts 10; where Peter made an apt statement; "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost even as we?"

They believed, received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and were saved PRIOR to receiving water baptism.

You do not seem to be wanting to forbid water; but you do seem to be attempting to dissuade the believer from receiving the effect of the water.

There is no effect/nothing mystical from the water. Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality.

Baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Identification is a good word to use. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior.

1 Corinthians 1:17, yes.

Paul had baptized none but Crispus and Gaius, in verse 14. However, you must realize that this was Corinth; and if you do your homework you will find that there were many who were baptized through Paul's ministry in Corinth (see Acts of the Apostles 18:8). Therefore I conclude that Paul took a similar practice concerning baptism as did Jesus in John 4:2.

That many were baptized is not the point. Paul said that Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel. If water baptism was actually a part of the gospel, then Paul would not have made such a statement.

Again, baptism in Jesus' Name is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in this experience. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, which is Christ's death, burial and resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Acts 2:38 stands as a conditional promise by which a man can receive absolutely the promise of the Holy Ghost. It is not about ritual but a point of contact for faith so that a man can receive the promised Holy Ghost by fulfilling the condition to a promise found in holy scripture.

Faith precedes baptism and we are saved through faith. I already explained Acts 2:38. Also consider Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18. *Scripture must harmonize with Scripture.*

 

[mailmandan]

There are those who have indeed been saved through the waters of baptism. Again, see Luke 7:29-30.

Nothing there about saved through the waters of baptism. See post #64.

Faith comes into the heart as the result of going into and coming up out of the water.

That is false. Faith precedes water baptism. I placed my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation hours before I received water baptism.

As they identify with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, something happens in the heart that enables them afterward to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:1-4).

You seem to be confusing the effects of Spirit baptism with water baptism. The Holy Spirit cleanses the heart from sin and regenerates the believer (not plain ordinary H20) which enables them afterward to walk in newness of life.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, plain ordinary H20 has no power to save.

Right. It is faith in the operation of God that does it; which operation has been ordained to include water (Colossians 2:11-12 (kjv)).

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

They believed, received the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues and were saved PRIOR to receiving water baptism.

Again, it was a special circumstance in which the Lord was proving to the circumcision group that Gentiles could be saved. They would have never allowed them to be baptized apart from evidence that they were already saved. And Peter made sure that they did get baptized. From the perspective of predestination, the order in which things are accomplished doesn't matter, as long as every specific does get accomplished. God knew that these would receive baptism almost immediately because He knew the doctrine that was in Peter's heart (very likely as the result of what Jesus had taught him).

There is no effect/nothing mystical from the water. Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality.

Water baptism in Jesus' Name is the condition for the promise found in Acts 2:38-39.

Identification is a good word to use. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior.

Yes, it can be said that they were saved by their confession of Jesus in water baptism; for He will confess them before the Father and the holy angels as the result of it.

That many were baptized is not the point. Paul said that Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel. If water baptism was actually a part of the gospel, then Paul would not have made such a statement.

The point is that Paul did not have to be sent to be baptized in order for baptism to be a part of the gospel. Because he let others do the baptizing for him.

Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in this experience. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, which is Christ's death, burial and resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

They are saved by what baptism symbolizes and by the thing that symbolizes it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nothing there about saved through the waters of baptism. See post #64.

The verses in question (Luke 7:29-30) show that their hearts were softened to the word of the Lord because they had been baptized by John. This indicates that their hearts were changed because of baptism.

That is false. Faith precedes water baptism. I placed my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation hours before I received water baptism.

Sometimes, water baptism precedes faith. And even if faith comes first, the promise of the Holy Ghost comes as the result of fulfilling the condition of the promise (Acts 2:38-39).

You seem to be confusing the effects of Spirit baptism with water baptism. The Holy Spirit cleanses the heart from sin and regenerates the believer (not plain ordinary H20) which enables them afterward to walk in newness of life.

I am going based on the scripture in question (Romans 6:1-4) which teaches that people come up out of the water to walk in newness of life.

If someone is baptized in the proper name, they will receive the Holy Ghost (He is absolutely promised in Acts 2:38-39) and be regenerated by their union with Him (see 1 Corinthians 6:17, Ephesians 3:19).

 

[mailmandan]

Right. It is faith in the operation of God that does it; which operation has been ordained to include water.

Again, it was a special circumstance in which the Lord was proving to the circumcision group that Gentiles could be saved. they would have never allowed them to be baptized apart from evidence that they were already saved. And peter made sure that they did get baptized. From the perspective of predestination, the order in which things are accomplished doesn't matter, as long as every specific does get accomplished. God knew that these would receive baptism almost immediately.

Water baptism in Jesus' Name is the condition for the promise found in Acts 2:38-39.

Yes, it can be said that they were saved by their confession of Jesus in water baptism; for He will confess them before the Father and the holy angels as the result of it.

The point is that Paul did not have to be sent to be baptized in order for baptism to be a part of the gospel. Because he let others do the baptizing for him.

They are saved by what baptism symbolizes and by the thing that symbolizes it.

I can see that you are thoroughly indoctrinated and I don't seem to be getting through to you at all. I just hope that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and open your heart and eyes to the truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

I can see that you are thoroughly indoctrinated and I don't seem to be getting through to you at all. I just hope that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and open your heart and eyes to the truth.

Hey...I've been baptized in Jesus' Name...so if I ever come over to your point of view, and I am right in the now, I will not lose what I have gained over having been baptized; and neither will I gain anything by coming over to your pov.

But if you have any doubt at all as to whether you have the true Holy Ghost, then consider that your coming over to my pov and also receiving baptism in Jesus' Name will result in your salvation.

I know why so many people want to argue over this issue....they want to believe that they are saved when they haven't gone through the proper channels.

I would encourage you to call upon the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth if you haven't done so (do it before men for maximum efficiency)...for that will accomplish the same effect as if you were baptized...you shall be saved (Mark 16:16, Romans 10:13) as opposed to if you have mere belief; which only makes it that you should not perish (John 3:16).

 

[justbyfaith]

I can see that you are thoroughly indoctrinated and I don't seem to be getting through to you at all. I just hope that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and open your heart and eyes to the truth.

Indeed; being indoctrinated is a good thing.

Tit 1:9, Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

 

[Truther]

Just as I thought.

Jesus is God in the flesh. (John 1:1,14) Colossians 2:9 (AMP) - For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

Notice that these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE they received water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) The phrase, "in the name of Jesus Christ," is not a reference to a legalistic baptismal formula that when recited, obtains salvation, but is a reference to authority. To baptize in Jesus' name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus.

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus said Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The proper way to baptize in the authority of Jesus is to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

You guys teach God was manifested AS flesh.....God was flesh...Spirit was flesh...God became flesh, etc.

Fact is, God was manifested INSIDE THE FLESH of His son.

Not, God became His son.

That is wild, bro.

 

[Truther]

I prefer to soft-sell Acts 2:38 salvation.

Mark 16:16 whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved.

John 3:16 whosoever merely believeth should not perish.

Romans 10:13 whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In Acts 2:38 if anyone is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins, they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 11:13, your heavenly Father shall give the Holy Ghost to them that ask Him.

Do any of those verses negate the essentiality of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, or do they magnify it?

 

[justbyfaith]

Do any of those verses negate the essentiality of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, or do they magnify it?

What do you think?

If those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, then does someone who has called on the name of the Lord need water baptism?

 

[mailmandan]

Indeed; being indoctrinated is a good thing.

Tit 1:9, Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Sadly, that's not the case for you.

2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[mailmandan]

You guys teach God was manifested AS flesh.....God was flesh...Spirit was flesh...God became flesh, etc.

Fact is, God was manifested INSIDE THE FLESH of His son.

Not, God became His son.

That is wild, bro.

Talk about mixed up.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being...14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Truther]

Talk about mixed up.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being...14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The word of God is God.

The word of you is you.

God's word is with Him.

Your word is with you.

God's word was made Jesus(flesh).

God's word also made us.

Easy peasy.

 

[Truther]

What do you think?

If those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, then does someone who has called on the name of the Lord need water baptism?

Yes, calling on the name of the Lord to find remission of sins through water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostles did not shorten to process to hollering out to God. Religion did that.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sadly, that's not the case for you.

Then exhort me and convince me of the truth that is contrary to what I believe, with sound doctrine; if indeed my doctrine is false.