What would you do different?

[shnarkle]

But @shnarkle , if I were already studying my Bible... Teaching my kids the ways of righteousness... Obeying the commandments... Hating sin and walking according to the dictates of a sanctified conscience, there is no way on God's green earth that I could be doing any of that except.. Because only in Him do I live and move and have being... For without Him I am nothing. And I'm not of the Calvin persuasion.

Barring "by the spirit of God", Paul and Christ both point out that one can do all of these things and still be damned.

Please address the question that was actually posted rather than a completely different situation.

 

[shnarkle]

God has ordained that ..let's say ...half or so of all believers will be cut off. Of course people won't accept that...as if we really had a choice to veto God's decisions.

We can cry out NO all we want but God will do as He sees fit. There will be weeping and a lot of anger at God's judgments. It is written so.

So what can we do about it? Well we can make our own calling and election surer by humility and the fear of the lord.

If God needs to find vessels of dishonour will He go among them that are humble or they who are smug and proud and think nothing bad could ever befall them?

I mean, where is there wisdom these days?

I can find nothing to disagree with in your post. I would only ask that you consider the hypothetical question that was posted. I can see how one might take your advice even if one is destined for damnation, but I'm not sure that's what you're saying or not. Are you saying you would carry on just as you are, knowing that you are predestined to suffer under God's wrath?

 

[shnarkle]

But we I thought were addressing and discussing my post?

Anyways, blessings all my best in Christ, Not me

I thought I'd seen everything, but this is a first. This is the first time I've seen anyone conclude that their post is what is being addressed rather than the actual topic of the OP.

 

[Not me]

Nowhere in my post or in Paul's letters is God cast as evil. It would appear that you have chosen to reply to this post to let us all know that you have no desire to actually address or even answer the questions presented. Got it.

I’m sorry did I gleam the wrong understanding from your post.

~That God has created some to be evil? ~

Which would put evil into God. For no good being could create a being to be evil and still remain good.

To which I wrote; any interpretation of anything that puts any evil into God is a wrong interpretation of that thing.

Please forgive if I misunderstood your post, meant no harm.

Blessings, Not me

 

[shnarkle]

I’m sorry the subject was what God is by Nature. That was what was put forth in my first post. You are the one that changed it into what He does.

No, the subject is: what would you do if God revealed you were a vessel fitted for destruction? You are the one who is not only ignoring the actual topic of this thread, but changing it as well. See how what goes around comes around? Does it bother you when people ignore what you post, and change the subject? It obviously does, and for good reason. Try not to squint too hard at the splinter in their eyes before you try getting a grip on that 2 x 4 in your own eyes.

 

[Not me]

I thought I'd seen everything, but this is a first. This is the first time I've seen anyone conclude that their post is what is being addressed rather than the actual topic of the OP.

Please forgive for having a side conversation on your thread meant no offense.

Blessings in Christ, Not me

 

[shnarkle]

I’m sorry did I gleam the wrong understanding from your post.

You aren't addressing the post to begin with. You're ignoring it altogether. I'm not offended by what you're posting, just wondering if you're ever going to get around to actually answering the question that was posted.

 

[Not me]

You aren't addressing the post to begin with. You're ignoring it altogether. I'm not offended by what you're posting, just wondering if you're ever going to get around to actually answering the question that was posted.

If I understand the question you proposed in your OP;

Was; what would you do if you knew you were one created to be damned to eternal punishment?

Do I understand the question correctly?

Not me

 

[shnarkle]

If I understand the question you proposed in your OP;

Was; what would you do if you knew you were one created to be damned to eternal punishment?

Do I understand the question correctly?

Here it is again for your edification:

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Are you having trouble understanding the meaning of this word "wrath"? Paul is not using this term in any unusual or private secretive way. He's using the commonly understood meaning of the term.

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Are you cognizant of the fact that there is a difference between these two vessels?

So Paul has presented a HYPOTHETICAL situation which I've been pondering for quite some time. I've also asked a number of people what would they do if God himself revealed to them that they were a vessel fitted for destruction, what would they do differently, if anything? Why?

This is pretty straightforward. If you are having trouble understanding the basic idea of this question, there really is no point in bothering to respond to this thread in the first place. If you can't get this much under your belt, then the rest of the post is pointless to look at as well.

It's a question most Christians simply refuse to answer. They will protest that God would never do something like this. Perhaps, but then that's quite simply not the point. The point is that Paul has presented this scenario for us to ponder, and I'm simply asking that YOU ponder it as well with the added stipulation that God will not repent or change his sovereign mind. Paul points out that we needn't question whether or not God is just in doing any of this. Why? Because for Paul and his argument, it's quite simply a Given.

He also plays devil's advocate by asking if one is only carrying out God's will, why would they be to blame? In other words, if one is created to live a sinful life anyways, why is that his fault? Paul's response? Shut up. In other words, Paul is not presenting an argument to justify sin. Most people will deny Paul is even making this argument, but there's really no reason for Paul to point out that God is just in the first place if he weren't making the argument that God predestines people for glory, and the rest aren't.

If it were left up to our own free "will and effort" (vs. 16), then Paul wouldn't need to point out God's righteous judgment, nor the fact that it is by God's promise that his will is accomplished. God insures his plans are carried out, not us.

So, knowing you're damned to eternal damnation, would you continue to troll people on the internet? Would you continue to go to church knowing you're destined for hell? Would you continue to read the bible, or teach your children to study the bible, knowing full well that God's righteous judgment and wrath is upon you?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Episkopos]

I can find nothing to disagree with in your post. I would only ask that you consider the hypothetical question that was posted. I can see how one might take your advice even if one is destined for damnation, but I'm not sure that's what you're saying or not. Are you saying you would carry on just as you are, knowing that you are predestined to suffer under God's wrath?

Just keep adding the fear of the Lord and humility. Otherwise I would stay the course.

 

[Not me]

Here it is again for your edification:



Are you having trouble understanding the meaning of this word "wrath"? Paul is not using this term in any unusual or private secretive way. He's using the commonly understood meaning of the term.



Are you cognizant of the fact that there is a difference between these two vessels?



This is pretty straightforward. If you are having trouble understanding the basic idea of this question, there really is no point in bothering to respond to this thread in the first place. If you can't get this much under your belt, then the rest of the post is pointless to look at as well.

I am guilty.

The only question I can see is there are two vessels being put forth. and the question is, what what you do if it was revealed to you, you were one over the other.

Sorry but that’s all I can glean from your post.

So I’ll step back and wish you all good things in Christ,

Not me

 

[shnarkle]

Just keep adding the fear of the Lord and humility. Otherwise I would stay the course.

An even better response that what you previously posted. I agree, and the reason being that a vessel fitted for destruction will at least live a better life today than they would have otherwise. I suspect they would live a better life today than the vessel fitted for mercy who isn't ready to fear the Lord with humility.

 

[GodsGrace]

So Paul has presented a hypothetical situation which I've been pondering for quite some time. I've also asked a number of people what would they do if God himself revealed to them that they were a vessel fitted for destruction, what would they do differently, if anything? Why?

It's a question most Christians simply refuse to answer. They will protest that God would never do something like this. Perhaps, but then that's quite simply not the point. The point is that Paul has presented this scenario for us to ponder, and I'm simply asking that YOU ponder it as well with the added stipulation that God will not repent or change his sovereign mind. Paul points out that we needn't question whether or not God is just in doing any of this. Why? Because for Paul and his argument, it's quite simply a Given.

He also plays devil's advocate by asking if one is only carrying out God's will, why would they be to blame? In other words, if one is created to live a sinful life anyways, why is that his fault? Paul's response? Shut up. In other words, Paul is not presenting an argument to justify sin. Most people will deny Paul is even making this argument, but there's really no reason for Paul to point out that God is just in the first place if he weren't making the argument that God predestines people for glory, and the rest aren't.

If it were left up to our own free "will and effort" (vs. 16), then Paul wouldn't need to point out God's righteous judgment, nor the fact that it is by God's promise that his will is acccomplished. God insures his plans are carried out, not us.

So, knowing you're damned to eternal damnation, would you continue to troll poeple on the internet? Would you continue to go to church knowing you're destined for hell? Would you continue to read the bible, or teach your children to study the bible, knowing full well that God's righteous judgment and wrath is upon you?

1. God didn't predestine anybody to damnation.
2. How is anybody supposed to know they're damned....according to your theology?
3. You didn't post the scripture.


4. Anyone interested could read the following links which will explain everything.

Romans Chapters 9-11 Study 1


Romans 9-11: A New View of the Doctrine of Election


 Romans 9 - Expository Comments On Romans 9-11

 

[GodsGrace]

I am guilty.

The only question I can see is there are two vessels being put forth. and the question is, what what you do if it was revealed to you, you were one over the other.

Sorry but that’s all I can glean from your post.

So I’ll step back and wish you all good things in Christ,

Not me

Please see post no. 33
There are no mysteries in the N.T.

 

[Nancy]

So Paul has presented a hypothetical situation which I've been pondering for quite some time. I've also asked a number of people what would they do if God himself revealed to them that they were a vessel fitted for destruction, what would they do differently, if anything? Why?

It's a question most Christians simply refuse to answer. They will protest that God would never do something like this. Perhaps, but then that's quite simply not the point. The point is that Paul has presented this scenario for us to ponder, and I'm simply asking that YOU ponder it as well with the added stipulation that God will not repent or change his sovereign mind. Paul points out that we needn't question whether or not God is just in doing any of this. Why? Because for Paul and his argument, it's quite simply a Given.

He also plays devil's advocate by asking if one is only carrying out God's will, why would they be to blame? In other words, if one is created to live a sinful life anyways, why is that his fault? Paul's response? Shut up. In other words, Paul is not presenting an argument to justify sin. Most people will deny Paul is even making this argument, but there's really no reason for Paul to point out that God is just in the first place if he weren't making the argument that God predestines people for glory, and the rest aren't.

If it were left up to our own free "will and effort" (vs. 16), then Paul wouldn't need to point out God's righteous judgment, nor the fact that it is by God's promise that his will is acccomplished. God insures his plans are carried out, not us.

So, knowing you're damned to eternal damnation, would you continue to troll poeple on the internet? Would you continue to go to church knowing you're destined for hell? Would you continue to read the bible, or teach your children to study the bible, knowing full well that God's righteous judgment and wrath is upon you?

In answer to your question, what would a Christian do if they knew they were made for a vessel of dishonor...myself - I would continue to praise Him, pray to Him and thank Him for all He has done for and given me. I cannot un-believe what I am certain of and that is that, He is God and He is Sovereign. But He is also faithful and He does what He SAID He will do...who can really KNOW Him?

 

[Nancy]

Only God’s Nature is being discussed, what He is by Nature. What He is in Himself. God is love and only love.

Not me

True, but He is also Just, jealous and faithful and righteous and perfect in ALL His ways. And, He will judge. I would love to believe He is ONLY Love but, that does not show all of His character as shown in the Bible.

 

[Enoch111]

It's a question most Christians simply refuse to answer.

Because it not worthy of an answer.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Mt 7:6).

 

[Not me]

True, but He is also Just, jealous and faithful and righteous and perfect in ALL His ways. And, He will judge. I would love to believe He is ONLY Love but, that does not show all of His character as shown in the Bible.

Oops.

 

[shnarkle]

1. God didn't predestine anybody to damnation.

I never claimed anyone was predestined to damnation.

2. How is anybody supposed to know they're damned....according to your theology?

]

No one is damned. It isn't my theology.

3. You didn't post the scripture.

Read the OP again.

4. Anyone interested could read the following links which will explain everything.

Not interested in explanations for your irrelevant ideas. If you'd like to start your own discussion please make an honest attempt to do it on another thread rather than high jacking this one.

 

[Not me]

[

True, but He is also Just, jealous and faithful and righteous and perfect in ALL His ways. And, He will judge. I would love to believe He is ONLY Love but, that does not show all of His character as shown in the Bible.

Sorry about the oops post. I was working on a response a while ago and chubby fingers are to blame....heeee heee

Hi; I think you know inwardly everything I’m going to say, because He is alive in you.

So yes, God is righteous, just, merciful and all good things, but these are just different aspects of His love. Love is His Nature, He does all things out of love. Whether to life or death, His love rules all. For God is only love, but Divine love is perfect, and it can not be without perfect justice, perfect righteousness and all good and perfect things.

But I think I’m preaching to the choir.

Blessings, in Christ, Not me