What's left after I have thrown everything away? (some may wonder)

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BarneyFife

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Fair question.

Obviously, I have discarded much of what the institutional church and evangelicalism has given us.

So, what's left?

Faith is left after you strip away all the unnecessary apologetic trimmings.

In fact, I believe you can't have faith without doing that.

So many Christians want to pretend that they have a "faith" that is founded on absolutes.

That's not faith. IMHO

Honest faith is believing when you don't have all the answers.

[

Some would consider this at least venturing into blind faith territory. It has a definite air of extremism to it—when taken purely at face value which, admittedly nearly always fails to allow for ever-present nuance.

And, of course, it's a bit troublesome to claim to adhere to an anti-apologetic framework that, on the other hand, contends for the validity of UR with scriptural evidence as a defense.

Not a very good way to catch up, eh, Pal?

Hope and trust you and yours are doing well.

I've been occupied with some very intense, spiritual housecleaning.

strs
 
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St. SteVen

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Some would consider this at least venturing into blind faith territory. It has a definite air of extremism to it—when taken purely at face value which, admittedly nearly always fails to allow for ever-present nuance.
I suppose REAL faith is blind faith.
All else is evidence-based. Is that really faith at all?
Faith in evidence, I would say.

And, of course, it's a bit troublesome to claim to adhere to an anti-apologetic framework that, on the other hand, contends for the validity of UR with scriptural evidence as a defense.
I'm not anti-apologetic, I just reserve the right to question any and all apologetics.
No church is going to dictate what I believe.

[
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Fair question.

Obviously, I have discarded much of what the institutional church and evangelicalism has given us.

So, what's left?

Faith is left after you strip away all the unnecessary apologetic trimmings.

In fact, I believe you can't have faith without doing that.

So many Christians want to pretend that they have a "faith" that is founded on absolutes.

That's not faith. IMHO

Honest faith is believing when you don't have all the answers.

[

I used to encounter these kind of questions all the time when I was a regular on a "Postmodern Christian" message board known as "the ooze dot com", that has been defunct for a good number of years. I am a traditional Eastern Christian in Faith so I have a much higher regard for the testimony of the Church as far as passing down "The Faith Once Delivered unto the Saints" than most. I will however recommend something to you that you may benefit from. In my younger days, I ran across this talk/transcript that I found very useful, I suggest you read it and can benefit from it too.

Quote
"Well, enough of that. Let’s see what’s next in our talk. Oh, oh, here comes a biggie. The Cult of Objectivity.

You know, Modernism tried. It tried real hard. It really, really tried. It tried to get rid of conventions. It thought it got rid of conventions. But all it really did was make its conventions invisible. At least to itself.

Reductionists often feel like they’re being objective. But the problem with reductionism is that, once you’ve split your universe into enough pieces, you can’t keep track of them any more. Psychologists tell us that the human mind can only keep track of about about seven objects, plus or minus two. That’s for short-term memory. It gets both worse and better for long-term memory, but the principle still stands. If you lose track of something, it’s because you thought it was less important, and didn’t think about it often enough to remind yourself. This is what happened to Modernists in literature. They’ve forgotten what’s important about literature."



 
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St. SteVen

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I am a traditional Eastern Christian in Faith so I have a much higher regard for the testimony of the Church as far as passing down "The Faith Once Delivered unto the Saints" than most.
Thanks for your post.
If it all boiled down to a "take it, or leave it" question, I would leave it.
There is room in my life for God outside of religion.

[
 

Aunty Jane

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Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV


Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?
If there is one absolute truth, then who or what is preventing it from being revealed and accepted by everyone?
Many have wondered about that. If God is all powerful, then why is the world in chaos? Why is God hard to identify and find in plethora of religious persuasions that many accept without question....some born to their beliefs, and others blindly accepting ritual as worship.

Some haven’t got a clue as to why the human race is suffering a life that they don’t want, and are for the most part, are prevented from enjoying by so many awful things....but the Bible explains it in detail to those who bother to venture outside “the box” they think they are trapped in. If you are in a box, in a box, in a box...(the trap of Protestantism) is there a way out of that kind of “religion”?.....which is the problem....”faith” isn’t the problem, because misplaced faith is found in large quantities even outside the multitude of boxes. Some just want to create more. What is God seeing? Exactly what he wants humans to see when their free will runs amok under the wrong influence.

If there is "absolute evidence", faith is not required.
Faith, as you wrote, is the "conviction of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
I think we need to distinguish the difference between “evidence” and “proof”.

Many people put “faith” in science, but fail to distinguish the difference between a scientific theory and an absolute scientific fact. This is faith without religion because science then becomes a substitute. Humans are designed to worship and humans find so many things to idolize as a substitute for worship in a godless world.....celebrities....sporting heroes....wealth and fame.....expensive food and wine....and the most obvious one is the worship of self....the all consuming need to serve one’s own interests above all else. (2 Tim 3:1-5)
Is there any consensus about WHAT that truth actually is?
The Bible also tells us who is responsible for that situation....as the master of deception, satan is also the god of confusion.....give people too many choices and you leave them in a muddle. He wants people confused with a smidgen of truth in all of his options...just enough to create doubt...and isn’t that what he did right at the very beginning of human history? It still works.

There is room in my life for God outside of religion.
Yes!! But outside of the “religions” created by the sower of the “weeds”....and every other form of false worship. There was never any hint of “religion” when God created mankind. There was just God...the unambiguous Creator of all life who started the human race with no endless list of rules and regulations......just one negative command that would cause them no hardship whatsoever, since all their needs were catered for....in abundance.

Obedience was all God ever required of his free willed children, both in heaven and on earth. Only when free will was abused did we see all the negative consequences of that one act of disobedience, in three different expressions, encroach on human life. God gave the human race over to the one who wanted to be their god. Why would he do that? Because rebellion had first taken place in the spiritual realm and humans were the hostages.

God provided a ransom to free the hostages, and we await the time when we are reconciled with our Creator, with all claims against his Sovereignty settled once and for all time. No rebel will ever be permitted to rise up against his clearly established Sovereignty in the future...and free will is preserved as the gift it was meant to be.

Jehovah is the epitome of love, but he cannot force anyone to love him.....so free will allows for that free flow of genuine love because it is chosen, not forced or under threat, which is why the concept of “hell” is nonsense. It is the complete opposite of who he is.
 
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Hiddenthings

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Have you answered your own question?

Jesus = truth
Is that all there is?

Is there any consensus about WHAT that truth actually is?

[
There are many versions of Jesus and many versions of the gospel, but there is one true Jesus and one true gospel, and they can be known.
 

St. SteVen

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If there is one absolute truth, then who or what is preventing it from being revealed and accepted by everyone?
Many have wondered about that. If God is all powerful, then why is the world in chaos? Why is God hard to identify and find in plethora of religious persuasions that many accept without question....some born to their beliefs, and others blindly accepting ritual as worship.
That's it in a nutshell. Thanks.

[
 
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Hiddenthings

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That's it in a nutshell. Thanks.

[
For the same reason Jesus spoke in parables:

To reveal truth to those who were spiritually receptive
To conceal it from those who were hardened or resistant

God conceals His wisdom, knowing that His true children will diligently seek and uncover what is not easily found.

That’s why passages like Job 28 exist, along with analogies such as the pearl of great price, they illustrate how true wisdom is rare and must be diligently sought. These qualities are encouraged by the Prophets and the Apostles...and Christ himself.

It’s a hard truth to accept if you haven’t yet come to possess that understanding.

Read Ezekiel 2 (very short chapter) and ask why failure was forecast before Ezekiel's ministry even began!?

The uncomfortable answer...

If there is a God and He is One...then 2 Timothy 2:19 tells us "But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: 'The Lord knows those who are his,' and, 'Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.
 

St. SteVen

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Behold

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Final Analysis of demonic "Universalism".

1.) Doctrine of Devils
2.) Designed to keep people from becoming a Christian on earth, so that they die and go to Hell.
3.) False Gospel
4.) Taught by extreme Heretics
5.) Satanic
 

Lambano

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St. SteVen

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What's left after I have thrown everything away? (some may wonder)​


Fair question.

Obviously, I have discarded much of what the institutional church and evangelicalism has given us.

So, what's left?

Faith is left after you strip away all the unnecessary apologetic trimmings.

In fact, I believe you can't have faith without doing that.

So many Christians want to pretend that they have a "faith" that is founded on absolutes.

That's not faith. IMHO

Honest faith is believing when you don't have all the answers.
 

Hiddenthings

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May 19, 2025
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What's left after I have thrown everything away? (some may wonder)​


Fair question.

Obviously, I have discarded much of what the institutional church and evangelicalism has given us.

So, what's left?

Faith is left after you strip away all the unnecessary apologetic trimmings.

In fact, I believe you can't have faith without doing that.

So many Christians want to pretend that they have a "faith" that is founded on absolutes.

That's not faith. IMHO

Honest faith is believing when you don't have all the answers.
Two things you will be judged for:

Hebrews 10:25 Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.”

Luke 22:19 “And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’”

1 Corinthians 11:24–25 also!


Two commands that many anti-establishment believers neglect, imagine being questioned by the Lord about this. What would your response be?
 

Aunty Jane

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What's left after I have thrown everything away? (some may wonder)​


Fair question.

Obviously, I have discarded much of what the institutional church and evangelicalism has given us.

So, what's left?

Faith is left after you strip away all the unnecessary apologetic trimmings.

In fact, I believe you can't have faith without doing that.
Stripping away what has been added over the centuries, (that was never there in the first place) is absolutely necessary. The kernel of the truth is still there but you have to remove outer covering to get to it, and understand its amazing simplicity.
So many Christians want to pretend that they have a "faith" that is founded on absolutes.

That's not faith. IMHO
Faith cannot be built on nothing. Jesus used the illustration of the rock and the sand....if you build on sand, the foundation is so easily undermined, that a storm could wash it all away...including what you have built on it.
The rock is solid, immovable. These are explicitly stated Bible truths and nothing can undermine them.
Honest faith is believing when you don't have all the answers.
If we don’t have “all the answers” we need, then we haven’t read the Bible with any real understanding.
It is one story, with one author, stating one truth....that is what is simple. Get that right and then let the Bible build on that foundation. It eliminates all the dross that is masking the truth from the ignorant majority today.
Too many want to be spoon fed their beliefs and are quick to condemn those who fail to fall in with the party line...they won’t like where that path takes them.
Others want to make God into their own image, and will likewise be disappointed in the outcome.

We may not have all the answers we ”want” but we certainly have all the answers we “need”.
 
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Hiddenthings

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If there is one absolute truth, then who or what is preventing it from being revealed and accepted by everyone?
Many have wondered about that. If God is all powerful, then why is the world in chaos? Why is God hard to identify and find in plethora of religious persuasions that many accept without question....some born to their beliefs, and others blindly accepting ritual as worship.
If it were discovered that His choosing was based on selecting those who genuinely sought Him and His Truth, His absolute truth, could He be wrong in His choice?

Truth either matters, or it does not.

Let me put it another way.

John 4:23–24 Those who draw near to God must worship Him in spirit and truth.

If this is impossible, then Christ is made out to be a liar. If it is possible, then the reality is that many have been led astray, for not all truly draw near.

The disciples who emerged from Judaism were sincerely seeking the Messiah, and they found him. Others, such as Nicodemus and the Samaritan woman, did not begin with a fully correct understanding, yet in time they grew and matured into true disciples of Christ.

The issue today is that many argue over the nature of Christ and whom people are actually approaching. Nicodemus and the Samaritan woman were both born into their respective beliefs, yet each sincerely investigated Christ and were transformed.

The Bible records those who worshiped God in faith grounded in truth and were rewarded for doing so. It also records many who failed to respond to the grace of God and consequently perished.

“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits…” 1 John 4:1

If truth was impossible to find then such advise is meaningless.

You have either found the true Messiah or you have not.
 

St. SteVen

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