When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Marty fox]

The pharisees shouted blasphemy because Jesus called HImself the Son of Man which is a messianic title. Once again He told the pharisees He was the Messiah!

Jesus went to heaven when He ascended. but as to why the bible still shows this to be future let us look at it in its context.

DANIEL 7:

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

ALL people nations and tongues are not serving Jesus, and Jesus has not received His kingdom yet. (See Rev. 12) that will happen at mid point of the tribulation.

But you are denying the words right out of Jesus' mouth because of when you think something happened which many think is in the future and many like me think it was in the past.

What Jesus says is fact so when did Jesus say that He received His authority in heaven and on earth?

Matthew 28:18-20
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

When He ascended back to heaven

 

[Earburner]

But you are denying the words right out of Jesus' mouth because of when you think something happened which many think is in the future and many like me think it was in the past.

What Jesus says is fact so when did Jesus say that He received His authority in heaven and on earth?

Matthew 28:18-20
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

When He ascended back to heaven

Amen! Even Jesus' prayer reveals what He desired of with His Father:
John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Taken]

No one is familiar with the real second coming of Jesus being Pentecost, because the religion of "church-ianity" is unaware of it itself, ever since the RCC.
Therefore they (RCC) "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" couldn't perceive or grasp the reality of Pentecost being Christ's second coming, because they were too busy making the Pope to be Christ on earth. So of course, they WOULD deny the power of the Holy Spirit to make one "godly", and then create their own "form of godliness" through ladder climbing up the ranks of their church.

Unfortunately, the Protestants, though they were in reformation, didn't do that much better, and therefore have followed in the same error of eschatology, ignoring, even to the point of exclusion, the very necessary work of the "coming" of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, of being "Born Again".

And so, the Protestants continued on believing the RCC error, that the visible return of Christ from Heaven, in all His Glory, is the "second coming" of Christ' when in all reality and truth, it will be His second literal visible appearance from Heaven, and in flaming fire, making it to be His third coming.

His second coming to us, has been invisible and in Spirit, whereas His "appearances" are physical and VISIBLE.
Hebrews 9:28 speaks of His "appearance" being a second time. But as for "His coming" to us, it will be the THIRD time.
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

So in essence, down through the centuries, there has been a miscontruing of the words: "His coming" and "His appearance".
Unfortunately, to the loss of millions of souls, the work of the Holy Spirit, for one to be "Born Again", has been extremely neglected and almost denied by the churches for quite a number of centuries.

Even today, the full reality of what Pentecost is, is hardly spoken of in most of the main line churches, for the full understanding of what it really means to be "Born Again" as a "new creature (creation) in Christ".
KJV John 14[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. See Luke 11:13 and Romans 8:9-11
[18] I will not leave you comfortless:
I will come to you.

You ignore the Order and Way.
Pay attention TO WHO, WHAT, WHEN,WHY, WHERE.
...
For example...a man named:
Robert Kevin Jones....may be Called BY numerous names & titles...
(Rob, Bob, RK, Jonsey, Mr. Jones, Dad, CEO, Boss, Neighbor, Friend, Enemy, Prisoner, Patient, Employer, Employee, blah, blah, blah)
He is ONLY ONE PERSON...yet has multiple names and titles.
And NOT EVERY OTHER PERSON, calls him by the same names or titles.
He ALSO, is called certain names, titles, when he is in Particular Places.


Point being...the Word of God, has many names and titles, and has been in Particular Places.
It does not matter YOU are aware he has many names and titles....
USE the specific Name and Title, specific to the PLACE, Scripture teaches.

The Son of man CAME to Earth.
The Son of man LEFT Earth.
The Son of man SHALL return to Earth.

The Comforter, aka, the Holy Spirit CAME to Earth, TO AN EXPRESS PLACE...aka, IN “particular” men.

It does not matter IF you BELIEVE, think or know, He is one and the same, SCRIPTURE “delineates”...

It is part of a PROBLEM with Catholics...
The Word of God came to Mary’s womb, was called “a holy thing”, was told one he was born would be called the Son of man, and called by the name Jesus.
It was also told to Mary, Later, he would be called the Son of God.
It’s an ORDER. The People of THAT day, learned the ORDER, and learned additional knowledge AS IT WAS ReVEALED.
Catholics begin at the end of all the knowledge revealed...and
Say...Jesus is the known Christ, Christ is Jesus, Christ Jesus is God, Jesus was born of Mary,
“THEREFORE”....out of context...Mary is the Mother of God.
Scripture Never called Mary the Mother of God.

I couldn’t say what Most Protestant Churches do or do not specifically teach.
But what you are saying....His 3rd appearance....I disagree.

The Word of God has been coming to Earth since the beginning....
Called by different things.

 

[Taken]

Well Scripture speaks of three heavens.
1. Atmosphere
2. what we call outer space (the rest of the created universe.
3. Heaven the dwelling place of God.

1&2 are created, three is eternal

Heaven is never called eternal.
God is called eternal, expressly without beginning.

 

[Marty fox]

Amen! Even Jesus' prayer reveals what He desired of with His Father:
John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Yes I will never understand why so many Christians deny what Jesus said Himself over what the prophets said.

I always take Jesus' words over the prophets not because the prophets were wrong but because they are often misunderstood

 

[Taken]

Man can look beyond the 1&2 heavens, with as many updated telescopes that they can make, to find God's eternal Heaven.
Its not of this world, but rather is another dimension, and is probably operative right beside us.
Acts 17[27] That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

As the earth has “layers/divisions” so to speak...so also does the heavens have divisions with “water”.

Yes God is Everywhere, Sees all things, Hears all things, but He is not Listening to Everyone....and men do not see or hear or are near all things.
It’s relative. The Lord is IN Heaven, not ON Earth. He is not bound by space or time, that He can not see and hear all things.

 

[Earburner]

You ignore the Order and Way.
Pay attention TO WHO, WHAT, WHEN,WHY, WHERE.
...
For example...a man named:
Robert Kevin Jones....may be Called BY numerous names & titles...
(Rob, Bob, RK, Jonsey, Mr. Jones, Dad, CEO, Boss, Neighbor, Friend, Enemy, Prisoner, Patient, Employer, Employee, blah, blah, blah)
He is ONLY ONE PERSON...yet has multiple names and titles.
And NOT EVERY OTHER PERSON, calls him by the same names or titles.
He ALSO, is called certain names, titles, when he is in Particular Places.


Point being...the Word of God, has many names and titles, and has been in Particular Places.
It does not matter YOU are aware he has many names and titles....
USE the specific Name and Title, specific to the PLACE, Scripture teaches.

The Son of man CAME to Earth.
The Son of man LEFT Earth.
The Son of man SHALL return to Earth.

The Comforter, aka, the Holy Spirit CAME to Earth, TO AN EXPRESS PLACE...aka, IN “particular” men.

It does not matter IF you BELIEVE, think or know, He is one and the same, SCRIPTURE “delineates”...

It is part of a PROBLEM with Catholics...
The Word of God came to Mary’s womb, was called “a holy thing”, was told one he was born would be called the Son of man, and called by the name Jesus.
It was also told to Mary, Later, he would be called the Son of God.
It’s an ORDER. The People of THAT day, learned the ORDER, and learned additional knowledge AS IT WAS ReVEALED.
Catholics begin at the end of all the knowledge revealed...and
Say...Jesus is the known Christ, Christ is Jesus, Christ Jesus is God, Jesus was born of Mary,
“THEREFORE”....out of context...Mary is the Mother of God.
Scripture Never called Mary the Mother of God.

I couldn’t say what Most Protestant Churches do or do not specifically teach.
But what you are saying....His 3rd appearance....I disagree.

The Word of God has been coming to Earth since the beginning....
Called by different things.

My point is simple:
First coming- physical
Did Jesus come physically? Yes.

Second coming- spiritual
Is Jesus now coming to us spiritually? Yes.

Third coming- physical
Will Jesus come again physically? Yes.

Church-ianity makes a big thing about Jesus first coming, but neglects to expound or teach in depth about Pentecost, His second coming, yet is warning the church to be READY for His third coming.

How can professing Christians be made ready for His third coming, if the churches neglect to preach the truth about His second coming since Pentecost, and the need for repentance and to recieve the free gift and seal of God's Holy Spirit, who is always ready to come to us? Revelation 3:20.

Is it because the churches don't know the truth about Romans 8:8-9, and the sheer fact that whosoever does NOT HAVE the Spirit of God, is none of His?

There are many professing christians in the churches who are "none of His", and they simply don't know why. Its not because they go to church and then refuse to hear, but rather because they are not being told much of anything about Pentecost, His second coming, the very reason of HOW to become "born again" and be ONE OF HIS!

 

[Earburner]

Yes I will never understand why so many Christians deny what Jesus said Himself over what the prophets said.

I always take Jesus' words over the prophets not because the prophets were wrong but because they are often misunderstood

The churches are messed up on the three comings of Jesus.
The OT prophets, from this side of the cross, are misunderstood because they mostly prohesied about Israel and Jesus' first coming in the flesh as Messiah, and his second coming, which is through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.
Zechariah 14 is foretelling of Jesus coming in the flesh to the Jews first, and then coming to us all in the Spirit, of which we all are now still involved in by either accepting Him or rejecting Him.

Most of church-ianity wants Zechariah 14 to decribe Jesus' third and final coming in glory and flaming fire, and then push it's meaning out into the far future, to use it to fabricate an end time millennium on earth.

 

[Earburner]

I couldn’t say what Most Protestant Churches do or do not specifically teach.
But what you are saying....His 3rd appearance....I disagree.

I would expect you to disagree. Such thoughts of a first, second and final coming of Jesus is simply not in the narrative or thought pattern of religious "church-ianity". However, the process of His salvation to us, is biblically shown to be through Him coming to us at three different times and in three different ways.
1. His presentation of it as Messiah.
2. Our decision about it by the Comforter.
3. His conclusion over it as Lord and King.

 

[Marty fox]

The churches are messed up on the three comings of Jesus.
The OT prophets, from this side of the cross, are misunderstood because they mostly prohesied about Israel and Jesus' first coming in the flesh as Messiah, and his second coming, which is through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.
Zechariah 14 is foretelling of Jesus coming in the flesh to the Jews first, and then coming to us all in the Spirit, of which we all are now still involved in by either accepting Him or rejecting Him.

Most of church-ianity wants Zechariah 14 to decribe Jesus' third and final coming in glory and flaming fire, and then push it's meaning out into the far future, to use it to fabricate an end time millennium on earth.

Yes but there was also Jesus coming in judgement like against Jerusalem in 70AD

 

[Marty fox]

The churches are messed up on the three comings of Jesus.
The OT prophets, from this side of the cross, are misunderstood because they mostly prohesied about Israel and Jesus' first coming in the flesh as Messiah, and his second coming, which is through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.
Zechariah 14 is foretelling of Jesus coming in the flesh to the Jews first, and then coming to us all in the Spirit, of which we all are now still involved in by either accepting Him or rejecting Him.

Most of church-ianity wants Zechariah 14 to decribe Jesus' third and final coming in glory and flaming fire, and then push it's meaning out into the far future, to use it to fabricate an end time millennium on earth.

I heard someone I respect say recently that many christian's support Jewish rebellion against God by going back to the prophets and regurgitating promises of restoration after the first exile and making it into a second restoration 2000 years later for their end times gratification.

 

[Taken]

My point is simple:
First coming- physical
Did Jesus come physically? Yes.

Second coming- spiritual
Is Jesus now coming to us spiritually? Yes.

Third coming- physical
Will Jesus come again physically? Yes.

Church-ianity makes a big thing about Jesus first coming, but neglects to expound or teach in depth about Pentecost, His second coming, yet is warning the church to be READY for His third coming.

How can professing Christians be made ready for His third coming, if the churches neglect to preach the truth about His second coming since Pentecost, and the need for repentance and to recieve the free gift and seal of God's Holy Spirit, who is always ready to come to us? Revelation 3:20.

Is it because the churches don't know the truth about Romans 8:8-9, and the sheer fact that whosoever does NOT HAVE the Spirit of God, is none of His?

There are many professing christians in the churches who are "none of His", and they simply don't know why. Its not because they go to church and then refuse to hear, but rather because they are not being told much of anything about Pentecost, His second coming, the very reason of HOW to become "born again" and be ONE OF HIS!

I get your point.
Scripture does not speak of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd coming terms”, specific to the “Son of man.” And to teach in those terms would be inaccurate.
However, as far as what you refer to as the 2nd...I can not say how in-depth all Churches teach about that.
I do see, Catholics and some Protestant Churches, place a great priority on,
Baby “baptism” / “christening” <—- those being slightly similar, combined, but is a ceremony....and the baby is totally unaware of the event. YET, the child is TOLD/TAUGHT they are ... a church member, saved, and or born again...( a Or combination of all those things )

Other Protestant Churches, regularly announce an invitation, (altar call), to become Saved ... then arrange a later water baptism, and most (I think) are lead to believe...they become “born again”, at that time.
So...in the big picture...Broadly, most people IMO, are lead to focus on “a ceremony”, being how a person becomes....saved and born again.
So...I do see your point of the GLOSS OVER, lack of “in-depth teaching” on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I get, with the Baby / very young child ceremony...it does not involve...
ANYTHING that has to do with the baby/child’s, “teaching”, learning, reasoning, “choosing.”
I do think, skipping, glossing over the teaching, about receiving the Holy Spirit, has sparked a terms, “not true Christian”, “Christian in name only,” etc.
Because their daily countenance does not reflect a born again person.
(But then the whole of society, for all things, religious and otherwise, is being indoctrinated...that thinking, reasoning, understanding....is no longer required...just do as you are told and you shall be “rewarded”.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I would expect you to disagree. Such thoughts of a first, second and final coming of Jesus is simply not in the narrative or thought pattern of religious "church-ianity". However, the process of His salvation to us, is biblically shown to be through Him coming to us at three different times and in three different ways.
1. His presentation of it as Messiah.
2. Our decision about it by the Comforter.
3. His conclusion over it as Lord and King.

I disagree on your terminology.
Jesus, came, left, shall return as the Son of man.
When Jesus came, 1st He came as a SERVANT...
WORD & a SEEN MAN.

When Jesus was “On Earth”, Who He is was TAUGHT...
WAS taught BY WORD, that He IS, An UNSEEN SPIRIT.

When Jesus returns, Who He IS Shall BE...”SEEN”...
***AS A MAN...WITH POWER...and the NEGATIVE EFFECTS of His POWER SEEN...
TO: the EYES OF “earthly” MEN “who” rejected Him
.....(this is WHY Scripture teaches; WHEN He returns, and eyes of earthly men, WHO SEE HIM (as they can, as a man)....but also SEE the negative effects of His great Power.......BEGIN whaling, crying, moaning....(IT IS THEIR OOOPS moment! For having REJECTED HIM....and their TIME FOR ACCEPTING HIM, has EXPIRED!)

***ALSO SEEN, AS A SPIRIT...WITH ABSOLUTE POWER...
TO: the EYES OF “spiritual” MEN “who” have been “glorified”. (These men are the men Converted, FULL OF JOY, to SEE Him AS HE IS....Spirit).

I get your point...I do not agree with your terminology.
Scripture reveals the KNOWLEDGE....but DOES NOT reveal the Manifestation, thus it is not proper to use Terminology, that Jesus IS the Comforter.
The knowledge IS:
Jesus is the Son of man.
Jesus came, Jesus left, Jesus shall return.
You learned the knowledge:
HE IS THE CHRIST.
The Christ is the POWER of God.
The Power of God is God.
...Some believe without SEEING His Power.
...Some WILL BELIEVE after SEEING His Power...but it will be TOO LATE for them to receive Salvation.

It hangs on the matter of a difference BETWEEN...Gods WAY and Mans WAY.
God has established HIS WAY.
You somewhat want Gods WAY, taught “your way”, and I disagree.

 

[Earburner]

Yes but there was also Jesus coming in judgement like against Jerusalem in 70AD

I agree, and that was through the fact of Jesus' first coming in the flesh.
He told the Jews that their house was left unto them desolate, and that the only way that they will see/percieve who Jesus really was, would be through "Born Again" Christians coming to them in the name of the Lord to them. No longer was God over shadowing them with His protection.
Being therefore void of God's care, satan entered in with his forces for destruction, through the Roman army, under the Roman Titus.
Luke 13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Daniel 9:26-27. Verse 26 is about the Roman forces for literal destruction. Verse 27 is about Jesus confirming His New covenant through His disciples , and Him being the cause for Jerusalem's desolation.

The 70 week prophecy of Daniel is fulfilled.

 

[Earburner]

Note: one prophetic week equals 70 years.
Through birth was the beginning of the 69th week. Jesus' death and resurrection was when He was 33 years old (in the midst of the 69th week).
He ascended into Heaven, and 45 days later God gave the Holy Spirit to the disciples, thus making both God the Father and God the Son able to come to all people, being that of His second coming in the Spirit.

For the remainder of that 69th week (37 years), Jesus in Spirit continued to confirm His new covenant through His disciples, with the Apostle Paul, as Jesus' replacement for Judas Iscariot, and not Matthias, who was selected by the will of Peter.
With the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, the 70 weeks were fulfilled.

 

[Earburner]

^ Correction; through Jesus' birth was the beginning of the 69th week.

 

[Earburner]

I get your point...I do not agree with your terminology.

Of course you don't. The true second coming, being that of the coming of the Holy Spirit of both God the Father and God the Son to ALL people, has been virtually eclipsed by the visible religious churches. John 14:23.

 

[Taken]

Of course you don't. The true second coming, being that of the coming of the Holy Spirit of both God the Father and God the Son to ALL people, has been virtually eclipsed by the visible religious churches. John 14:23.

Of course I do not agree with your overlapping terminology...Neither does Scripture. So what?

You don’t agree with me....so what?
Do I need to wave a finger at you, as if, your disagreement requires a tongue lashing? No. And neither is your finger waving required or accepted.

I was very explicit on agreeing with some of your points and not others...
So what? Not good enough for you? So what? Swinging door, you don’t agree with me either....so what? Let it be.

 

[Earburner]

Of course I do not agree with your overlapping terminology...Neither does Scripture. So what?

Relax! It's not a problem for Born Again Christians, but it certainly is a problem for the Christian religious. They are being indirectly kept from knowing that they really are "none of His". Romans 8:8-9.
Many are being baptized by water only, thinking that they have "entered into the KoG".
And so the words of Luke 21:8 apply to those themselves, who are eclipsing the importance of Pentecost, the Lords second coming to us in Spirit.
[8] And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, [that] I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Let's not forget about the parable of
"The Wheat and The Tares".

 

[Taken]

Relax!

Snarky. Not particularly advantageous to begin with such a comment, with expectation the person going forward is going to be focused on the point you really are trying to make.


It's not a problem for Born Again Christians, but it certainly is a problem for the Christian religious. They are being indirectly kept from knowing that they really are "none of His". Romans 8:8-9.
Many are being baptized by water only, thinking that they have "entered into the KoG".
And so the words of Luke 21:8 apply to those themselves, who are eclipsing the importance of Pentecost, the Lords second coming to us in Spirit.
[8] And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, [that] I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Let's not forget about the parable of
"The Wheat and The Tares".

I am not forgetting anything.
Already am aware and addressed, people getting their water dip, without a clue of the all encompassing big picture.

All day long...(even on this forum), people claim SAVED...BORN AGAIN...ya, ya SPIRIT of GOD IN ME.....oh by the way...”kind of a fail”...cause “they continue to sin”...but, but, but...try really hard not to.

Either one IS SAVED, QUICKENED....Immune to committing Sin...Free from Committing Sin...Kept from committing sin BY the POWER of God “IN” them...
Or they Are not.
Salvation, Quickening, Gods Power IN a man...is not kinda, sorta.
It IS, or It ISN’T.