When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Truth7t7]

There's no clouds in the verses that I provided that's the difference.

Proverbs 11:2KJV
2 When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
3 The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.

Proverbs 29:23KJV
23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

 

[Marty fox]

Proverbs 11:2KJV
2 When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
3 The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.

Proverbs 29:23KJV
23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

No pride here so you don’t need to go there or be judgmental which also isn’t Christian like. Having different views has nothing to do with pride

My point stands that there is no clouds mentioned in any of the verses and all of my quoted verses also mention the judgement seat at the same time which isn’t mentioned in any of your verses.

So different events happen at those times showing that they are different times

 

[Marilyn C]

Or this happened in the past during Daniels day like we see in the book of Daniel.

We need to remember that these books weren’t written to us they were written to past generations. They are for us but not written to us.

They were warnings to people of soon coming persecutions to give them hope and let them know that the faithful would prevail through them.

Actually Marty, the context tells us that it is in the future.

1. All the beasts are contemporary as the final beast treads down the others. (Dan. 7: 7)
2. Thus they are all great powers but NOT world Rulers. (Dan. 7: 4 - 7)
3. They are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)
4. The first 3 beasts get to `live` on but with out their power. (Dan. 7: 12)

None of that works for those Federations (beastly kingdoms) if they were in the past.

 

[Truth7t7]

No pride here so you don’t need to go there or be judgmental which also isn’t Christian like. Having different views has nothing to do with pride

My point stands that there is no clouds mentioned in any of the verses and all of my quoted verses also mention the judgement seat at the same time which isn’t mentioned in any of your verses.

So different events happen at those times showing that they are different times

Pretty hard to look at your claim that the event seen below represents a literal and symbolic, with your claim its two completely different times, one is historical, one is future because the word "Cloud(s)" wasn't used in 2 Thessalonians 1:7

Marty do you really believe the average Christian believes Matthew 24:30 isn't a literal coming, but just Marty's private interpretation of a 70AD judgement upon Israel/Jerusalem

Sorta like one Apostles version of the resurrection didn't mention "Tomb" so it's a different time and place

Sorta like pre-tribbers using the second coming, and claiming it's a pre-trib rapture

Marty's Literal Second Coming, because "Cloud(s)" aren't mentioned

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Marty's symbolic second coming, that represents a 70AD judgement upon Israel/Jerusalem

Marty Believes Matthew 24:30 Isn't A Literal Second Coming, But Is A Symbolic Jesus And Angels, Representing A Judgement Upon Israel/Jerusalem In 70AD, because the word "Cloud(s)" is used

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Marty fox]

Actually Marty, the context tells us that it is in the future.

1. All the beasts are contemporary as the final beast treads down the others. (Dan. 7: 7)
2. Thus they are all great powers but NOT world Rulers. (Dan. 7: 4 - 7)
3. They are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership through Israel. (Dan. 7: 27)
4. The first 3 beasts get to `live` on but with out their power. (Dan. 7: 12)

None of that works for those Federations (beastly kingdoms) if they were in the past.

Why not?

These events happened in the past you have Babylon then the Medes the Persians and then Greece but Gods faithful stayed faithful and survived them all those powers are gone but the church is still here and peoples from all nations serve and worship God

Just Like we see in Daniel chapter 10 beast are demons influencing and controlling nations and their leaders

 

[Waiting on him]

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

Jesus confirmed the covenant in the first century.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 9:15 KJV
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Are you guys saying Jesus isn’t mediating anything for almost 2k years?

 

[Marty fox]

Pretty hard to look at your claim that the event seen below represents a literal and symbolic, with your claim its two completely different times, one is historical, one is future because the word "Cloud(s)" wasn't used in 2 Thessalonians 1:7

Marty do you really believe the average Christian believes Matthew 24:30 isn't a literal coming, but just Marty's private interpretation of a 70AD judgement upon Israel/Jerusalem

Sorta like one Apostles version of the resurrection didn't mention "Tomb" so it's a different time and place

Sorta like pre-tribbers using the second coming, and claiming it's a pre-trib rapture

Marty's Literal Second Coming, because "Cloud(s)" aren't mentioned

2 Thessalonians 1:7KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Marty's symbolic second coming, that represents a 70AD judgement upon Israel/Jerusalem

Marty Believes Matthew 24:30 Isn't A Literal Second Coming, But Is A Symbolic Jesus And Angels, Representing A Judgement Upon Israel/Jerusalem In 70AD, because the word "Cloud(s)" is used

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So not only once again you are showing a non Christian attitude by being judgmental towards me but now you are spreading a lie saying that Matthew 24:30 is my private interpretation of the judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD.

Multiple thousands of Christians believe that and their are books and videos on it. Spreading a lie about a fellow Christian is a very serious accusation which deserves an apology. You apologize once to me already this week let’s see if you will be humble enough to do it again.

You also weren’t fair enough to post my other point and left out me saying that the judgement day also happens in all of the verses I provided when I believe the second coming is. That is the other difference between your verses and mine which is an important point showing an extra event at that time.

 

[Marilyn C]

Why not?

These events happened in the past you have Babylon then the Medes the Persians and then Greece but Gods faithful stayed faithful and survived them all those powers are gone but the church is still here and peoples from all nations serve and worship God

Just Like we see in Daniel chapter 10 beast are demons influencing and controlling nations and their leaders

However we do not see the Romans `devouring, breaking in pieces and trampling` (Dan. 7: 7) the Babylonians or the Medes & Persians. Those empires were well gone by the time Rome came to power. God judged them all. Those 4 world rulers have all come , been judged and are no more.

However we do see these 4 great powers today and they have arisen in their right order and are forming a global government even now.

Thus these 4 great powers are CONTEMPORARY!

The church, the Body of Christ was not created back in Babylon, Medes & Persians or Grecian times.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus confirmed the covenant in the first century.

Sorry, the bad guy will make "Desolation" all the way to the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" 2 Peter 3:10

 

[Truth7t7]

So not only once again you are showing a non Christian attitude by being judgmental towards me but now you are spreading a lie saying that Matthew 24:30 is my private interpretation of the judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD.

Multiple thousands of Christians believe that and their are books and videos on it. Spreading a lie about a fellow Christian is a very serious accusation which deserves an apology. You apologize once to me already this week let’s see if you will be humble enough to do it again.

You also weren’t fair enough to post my other point and left out me saying that the judgement day also happens in all of the verses I provided when I believe the second coming is. That is the other difference between your verses and mine which is an important point showing an extra event at that time.

I apologize for my oversight, you have now informed me that many follow your belief that is major error

 

[covenantee]

However we do not see the Romans `devouring, breaking in pieces and trampling` (Dan. 7: 7) the Babylonians or the Medes & Persians. Those empires were well gone by the time Rome came to power. God judged them all. Those 4 world rulers have all come , been judged and are no more.

However we do see these 4 great powers today and they have arisen in their right order and are forming a global government even now.

Thus these 4 great powers are CONTEMPORARY!

The church, the Body of Christ was not created back in Babylon, Medes & Persians or Grecian times.

Ancient Greece

"Following the Classical period was the Hellenistic period (323–146 BC), during which Greek culture and power expanded into the Near and Middle East from the death of Alexander until the Roman conquest. Roman Greece is usually counted from the Roman victory over the Corinthians at the Battle of Corinth in 146 BC to the establishment of Byzantium by Constantine as the capital of the Roman Empire in AD 330."

The Kingdom of God/Heaven was established by Christ at His first advent.

During the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire.

Long ago.

 

[Marty fox]

I apologize for my oversight, you have now informed me that many follow your belief that is major error

Thank you

 

[Marty fox]

However we do not see the Romans `devouring, breaking in pieces and trampling` (Dan. 7: 7) the Babylonians or the Medes & Persians. Those empires were well gone by the time Rome came to power. God judged them all. Those 4 world rulers have all come , been judged and are no more.

However we do see these 4 great powers today and they have arisen in their right order and are forming a global government even now.

Thus these 4 great powers are CONTEMPORARY!

The church, the Body of Christ was not created back in Babylon, Medes & Persians or Grecian times.

The faithful before the cross are saved in the same way as the faithful after the cross

If you read the book of Daniel you will see that he survived the foreign control of Babylon the Medes and the Persians and then in chapter 10 we see that the kingdom of Greece will still come. Rome is never mentioned by Daniel

The book of Daniel is to show that if you stay faithful You will thrive and survive. It also showed that a persecution was coming form Antiochus Epehanies but the faithful would overcome.

Antiochus was the 11th in line but 3 were uprooted before him and he became the 8th king

 

[covenantee]

Sorry, the bad guy will make "Desolation" all the way to the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" 2 Peter 3:10

Jesus was Commander-In-Chief of the Roman armies which inflicted desolation upon Jerusalem and Judea all the way to the "Consummation" of their complete destruction and annihilation.

Do you think that Jesus was a bad guy?

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus was Commander-In-Chief of the Roman armies which inflicted desolation upon Jerusalem and Judea all the way to the "Consummation" of their complete destruction and annihilation.

Do you think that Jesus was a bad guy?

The Consummation (The End)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Timtofly]

What I have said, is what Paul said, that it is not a mass future event, but rather to "each one in his own order" (which, apparently you deny). And that if you mean that it is visible in this world by saying "literal", that is not biblical, because Jesus said it "is without observation" and "the world sees me no more."

Paul gave a literal order. The Cross was literal. Christ, the firstfruits, were literal OT redeemed, removed from Abraham's bosom, and physically entered a literal Paradise.

The Second Coming will literally bring Christ to earth, not the kingdom. The world has not seen Jesus. But you leave off the rest of the point:

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Then after the Second Coming, and Jesus rules over the earthly kingdoms, which are literal, as well as the 1,000 years, Jesus hands back creation to God, and the work of the Word will be finished.

Only the Cross was in the past. The Second Coming and the end are still future.

 

[Timtofly]

Such as what occurred in 70 AD.

The earth ceased to exist in 70AD?

Did it get homesick and return a few seconds later?

 

[Timtofly]

How can you say that and then deny that Jesus is going to heaven in the verse below when the verse gives the direction?

Daniel 7:13
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.

Where would the Farther be?

If this was Revelation 20:11, then there would no longer even be a heaven or earth. Current reality would not even exist. Direction up or down would not relate to anything. Neither would coming or going. There would not even be time, as this would be outside of creation. The Word already returned all of creation back to God, the ancient of days. Only the Word and God exist at this point. The NHNE would already have happened for those beings created that moved on into the new reality. This would be a scene in eternity, with no relationship to a created reality at all.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus confirmed the covenant in the first century.

Jesus was the covenant in the first century, and was cut off. He left earth.

The confirmation is still future, as well as the rest of the 70th week. Jesus finishes the week and confirms the covenant as Prince, not as Messiah. Messiah was the covenant. Prince is the confirmation of the covenant.