When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?

[6 Stories]

Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..."

Rev 5:1-7
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

 

[quietthinker]

When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?​

Tuesday afternoon of course!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..."

Rev 5:1-7
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

I'm not sure how significant it was, in the book as a whole, when Jesus received the scroll? The arrangement and chronology of the visions are less significant than what they were saying. And the visions themselves were not real time events, but only visions portraying those events. When something happens in a dream is not the same thing as it happening in real time.

But obviously, Revelation is arranged in a particular order, and it is designed to show Christ's redemption from the start, before the history of Antichrist, etc. Jesus is the Beginning and the End. The ultimate judgments of God comes as a result of what is stated about the Lamb's Sacrifice from the beginning.

 

[6 Stories]

Jesus apparently did not have the Revelation while he was on earth.

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

 

[6 Stories]

I'm not sure how significant it was, in the book as a whole, when Jesus received the scroll? The arrangement and chronology of the visions are less significant than what they were saying. And the visions themselves were not real time events, but only visions portraying those events. When something happens in a dream is not the same thing as it happening in real time.

But obviously, Revelation is arranged in a particular order, and it is designed to show Christ's redemption from the start, before the history of Antichrist, etc. Jesus is the Beginning and the End. The ultimate judgments of God comes as a result of what is stated about the Lamb's Sacrifice from the beginning.

The vision I referenced portrayed the time Jesus received the scroll.

It seems to me that the only time Jesus would not have everything that the Father had was when Jesus was on earth.
If that is true, then Jesus receives the scroll from the Father the moment he ascends into heaven.
Are there any objections to this timeline?

 

[No Pre-TB]

When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?​

When he ascended and left those that watched a cloud receive Him.

He doesn’t wait over 2k years to be rewarded. He was proclaimed riches, power and glory- worthy to receive the scroll because of his death and received it when in God’s presence at his ascension. It is a past event John witnessed in God’s throne room that is paramount in order to explain future things.

John couldn’t be told of the trumpets without the explanation of those that were sealed and that made it necessary to explain the seals. And if the seals were explained, John needed to know what the seals -sealed and who opened it as well as who was worthy. This is evident that when John enters the throne room, he writes all he sees: God, his throne, 24 elders, 4 living beasts and an empty crystal sea.
1. Jesus is absent from the scene
2. The 7 lamps of fire which are the 7 spirits of God are a shadow of the OT, But after Christ comes, the 7 sprits of God are the 7 horns and eyes under the NT church.

 

[Timtofly]

The vision I referenced portrayed the time Jesus received the scroll.

It seems to me that the only time Jesus would not have everything that the Father had was when Jesus was on earth.
If that is true, then Jesus receives the scroll from the Father the moment he ascends into heaven.
Are there any objections to this timeline?

The Lamb's book of life was written and sealed prior to Genesis 1:1. The Cross was when the Lamb's book of life was officially obtained. When Jesus opened the seals is the point, people on earth will be oblivious to. Obviously they won't know the events, just like the Jews were clueless about Jesus being the Messiah.

 

[face2face]

Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..."

Rev 5:1-7
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

During the time of his ascension to the time of John being imprisoned.

This teaches that Christ was dependent upon God for the knowledge that he passed on to "his servants," and proves conclusively that he is not
co-equal with the Father.

F2F

 

[6 Stories]

When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?​

When he ascended and left those that watched a cloud receive Him.

He doesn’t wait over 2k years to be rewarded. He was proclaimed riches, power and glory- worthy to receive the scroll because of his death and received it when in God’s presence at his ascension. It is a past event John witnessed in God’s throne room that is paramount in order to explain future things.

John couldn’t be told of the trumpets without the explanation of those that were sealed and that made it necessary to explain the seals. And if the seals were explained, John needed to know what the seals -sealed and who opened it as well as who was worthy. This is evident that when John enters the throne room, he writes all he sees: God, his throne, 24 elders, 4 living beasts and an empty crystal sea.
1. Jesus is absent from the scene
2. The 7 lamps of fire which are the 7 spirits of God are a shadow of the OT, But after Christ comes, the 7 sprits of God are the 7 horns and eyes under the NT church.

Excellent! "When he ascended and left those that watched a cloud receive Him."

Does everyone understand this?

 

[6 Stories]

The Lamb's book of life was written and sealed prior to Genesis 1:1. The Cross was when the Lamb's book of life was officially obtained. When Jesus opened the seals is the point, people on earth will be oblivious to. Obviously they won't know the events, just like the Jews were clueless about Jesus being the Messiah.

The point of the timing of Jesus being given the Revelation scroll is that it is not given to Jesus after the church age or even after the letters to the churches in the first century. It was given to Jesus when He ascended into heaven.

This contradicts how most people view Rev 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Before John was shown what would happen hereafter, he was given a point of reference which was the time Jesus ascended into heaven. This is the same pattern utilized in Daniel 2:29, when God said, "As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass." God showed Daniel all of the world kingdoms that would exist until Jesus sets up his kingdom on earth, but God started with the kingdom of Babylon which was already in existence.

In order to understand the things which come hereafter, God used something from the past that Daniel, John, and we need for context.

 

[6 Stories]

During the time of his ascension to the time of John being imprisoned.

This teaches that Christ was dependent upon God for the knowledge that he passed on to "his servants," and proves conclusively that he is not
co-equal with the Father.

F2F

I am limiting my responses to the timing of the vision of Jesus receiving the scroll. In my opinion, incorrect assumptions about Rev 4 and 5 have veiled our understanding about the timing of the events in the scroll for 2000 years.

 

[face2face]

I am limiting my responses to the timing of the vision of Jesus receiving the scroll. In my opinion, incorrect assumptions about Rev 4 and 5 have veiled our understanding about the timing of the events in the scroll for 2000 years.

Well, it's certain Jesus didn't know the future historical events prior to him ascending and its clear he gave these visions to John at Patmos.
The math is rather simple.
F2F

 

[No Pre-TB]

Excellent! "When he ascended and left those that watched a cloud receive Him."

Does everyone understand this?

Sadly no. Many think he received the scroll in the future and waits over 2k years to receive power, honor and blessings.

 

[ewq1938]

The vision I referenced portrayed the time Jesus received the scroll.

It seems to me that the only time Jesus would not have everything that the Father had was when Jesus was on earth.
If that is true, then Jesus receives the scroll from the Father the moment he ascends into heaven.

Theer is also a clue about that in Christ's description:

I believe all the seals were opened by Christ and that he did it as soon as he ascended. First, it would be odd for Christ to be in heaven for so long and not open the seals. That no one was present in heaven that could open the seals tells me Christ was on the Earth during the initial search and when he ascended then the qualified one was found. Also the description of looking like a slain lamb tells me the death on the cross was fairly recent although that is not very strong evidence but to me it pairs well with that Christ was not initially found and then suddenly appeared. Where would have have gone had he been in heaven for a long time after the ascension?

 

[6 Stories]

Jesus fulfilled the law by becoming our sacrifice for sin as shown in Revelation 5 and Hebrews 9.

Hebrews 9
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

No people were in heaven before this time because sin separated man from God. The dead with faith in God were in the good side of hades called Abraham's bosom in Luke 16:22 or paradise when Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross.

The 24 elders sang for those who died and went to the good side of hades. They sang the first song in Rev 4:11 for those who knew God through creation. They sang their new song as soon as Jesus redeemed mankind by his blood in Rev 5:12. Anyone who died in Christ after Jesus arrived in heaven in Rev 5:6 is found in heaven. Examples: martyrs are found in heaven in Rev 6:9. great multitudes who die during the great tribulation are in heaven in Rev 7:9.

 

[ewq1938]

The 24 elders sang for those who died and went to the good side of hades.

There is no good side of hades lol....

There is hades, all bad, and then across a large gulf is where the saved dead go. It's heaven, paradise, a bosom....it's a completely different place than hades.

 

[quietthinker]

There is no good side of hades lol....

There is hades, all bad, and then across a large gulf is where the saved dead go. It's heaven, paradise, a bosom....it's a completely different place than hades.

ignorance maintained elicits silence from.......!

 

[6 Stories]

There is no good side of hades lol....

There is hades, all bad, and then across a large gulf is where the saved dead go. It's heaven, paradise, a bosom....it's a completely different place than hades.

What happens when you die?

Your body goes into the ground and decays. Your spirit is separated from your body. At different times, the spirit went to different places.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
When Jesus was alive, the spirit of no man had entered into heaven. That would include Enoch and Elijah.

Luke 16:20-26
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

If Lazarus was not in Hades, he could see Hades from where he was. Lazarus was not in heaven according to Jesus in John 3:13.

Jesus called the place of the dead Paradise in Luke 23:43. "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."
Jesus went to hell or hades in this Psalms quote in the New Testament. However, the body of Jesus did not rot.

Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

In Rev 5, Jesus ascended. Afterward, on Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was sent - giving gifts unto men.
Leading captivity captive is bringing the spirits of the good side of hell into heaven once Jesus blood was shed to prepare heaven for us.

Now, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. 2 Cor 5:6-8
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

What happens when you die?

Your body goes into the ground and decays. Your spirit is separated from your body. At different times, the spirit went to different places.

No, the spirit left the body and goes to heaven.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
When Jesus was alive, the spirit of no man had entered into heaven. That would include Enoch and Elijah.

Luke 16:20-26
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

If Lazarus was not in Hades, he could see Hades from where he was.

Can you tell me which verse says Lazarus could see Hades?

Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

"afar off" proves hades is a different place than where Lazarus was.

Lazarus was not in heaven according to Jesus in John 3:13.

John says no such thing which is about physical ascension like Christ's not where a spirit goes.

Leading captivity captive is bringing the spirits of the good side of hell into heaven once Jesus blood was shed to prepare heaven for us.

No, that is not what it means.

Barnes:

He led captivity captive - The meaning of this in the Psalm is, that he triumphed over his foes. The margin is, “a multitude of captives.” But this, I think, is not quite the idea. It is language derived from a conqueror, who not only makes captives, but who makes captives of those who were then prisoners, and who conducts them as a part of his triumphal procession. He not only subdues his enemy, but he leads his captives in triumph. The allusion is to the public triumphs of conquerors, especially as celebrated among the Romans, in which captives were led in chains (Tacitus, Ann. xii. 38), and to the custom in such triumphs of distributing presents among the soldiers; compare also Jdg_5:30, where it appears that this was also an early custom in other nations.


Gill:

he led captivity captive; which is expressive of Christ's conquests and triumph over sin, Satan, the world, death, and the grave; and indeed, every spiritual enemy of his and his people, especially the devil, who leads men captive at his will, and is therefore called captivity, and his principalities and powers, whom Christ has spoiled and triumphed over; the allusion is to the public triumphs of the Romans, in which captives were led in chains, and exposed to open view (s):

 

[6 Stories]

I don't understand the confusion. Abraham and the rich man had a conversation. How do you propose that happened?

Neither Barnes or Gill seem to have a problem with my interpretation.
1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" The procession of hell's captives from "the good side of hell" to heaven is captivity taken captive. These captives of hell are now captives of Christ and in heaven.

Nobody was with God before Jesus was put to death.
Hebrews 9:15-16
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

What are your thoughts about Jesus' soul being in hell in Acts 2:31?