When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?

[ewq1938]

Who has eaten of the tree of life since sin entered the world? Everyone's body has to die because of sin even though the eternal life of God is already in us.

No, people die because God made us all mortal. We don't die because we are sinners. It is the second death that awaits unforgiven and unsaved sinners.

I don't really comprehend a 'spiritual body.' Jesus had one when he rose from the dead.

He did but it is not a body like a spirit like a ghost or something. The spiritual body is physical and has it's own flesh.

People have some sort of 'tent' or body as spirits in heaven seen as 'clothes.' 2 Cor 5:

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul is talking about the new body. The saved dead will resurrect into those new bodies. The unsaved dead will also resurrect, but back into their old bodies and they will be mortal again so they can die a second time, called the second death.

 

[Timtofly]

Those in Abraham's bosom already died in the flesh. Once the flesh is dead, it's ok to eat of the tree of life and live forever.
They would have gone to the LOF if they of the tree of life without having forgiveness of sin.

I wonder if Paradise, the Garden of Eden, sunk into the earth during the flood of Noah?

Order of events in 1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

18 Death) Jesus died in the flesh, but was made alive in the Spirit.
19 Alive in the Spirit) In the Spirit, Jesus went to Paradise (place of the spirits in prison) in the belly of the earth.
20 Spirit in Hades) Only 8 people didn't go to hades (good or bad side) during the flood.
21 Bodily Resurrection) Jesus rose from the belly of the earth and we will too. Baptism is a picture of resurrection.
22 Bodily Ascension) Jesus ascended into heaven after he was resurrected.

Paradise was moved out of reach into heaven. The Tree of Life was never in sheol. Abraham's bosom was still the state of death, until the Cross, and the redeemed then entered Paradise in heaven.

You are still letting theology drive your reasoning.

The redeemed don't go to Abraham's bosom post the Cross. They don't taste death. You seem stuck on the manifestions of God, via His plan, but fail to see that physical Paradise was opened up after God became flesh. Thus allowing souls in Abraham's bosom, part of sheol, to physically resurrect and physically enter Paradise. The entire OT body of saints ascended to heaven on Sunday morning, as the firstfruits of the NT Covenant. They were presented to the Father in the order of presentation mentioned by Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Christ the firstfruits.

The next presentation will be the entire church glorified, the redeemed no longer separated from their spirit. That is the Second Coming.

The last presentation will be the entire creation after the 1,000 year reign where even death will be defeated.

It is not just about manifestions. It is about the redemption of Adam's offspring both physical and spiritual. That restoration brings us back to being sons of God in the image of God, soul, body, and spirit. No longer in the temporal, corruptible, dead image of Adam under the bondage of sin and death.

Until the Cross, the redeemed were souls in Abraham's bosom waiting for a physical resurrection. Now the redeemed are physically enjoying Paradise until the Second Coming and the restoration of the spirit.

 

[6 Stories]

No, people die because God made us all mortal. We don't die because we are sinners. It is the second death that awaits unforgiven and unsaved sinners.




He did but it is not a body like a spirit like a ghost or something. The spiritual body is physical and has it's own flesh.




Paul is talking about the new body. The saved dead will resurrect into those new bodies. The unsaved dead will also resurrect, but back into their old bodies and they will be mortal again so they can die a second time, called the second death.

God made us mortal so that when we sinned, we would not have to go to the lake of fire like the immortal angels who sinned.

 

[6 Stories]

Paradise was moved out of reach into heaven. The Tree of Life was never in sheol. Abraham's bosom was still the state of death, until the Cross, and the redeemed then entered Paradise in heaven.

I agree that Abraham's bosom was the state of death.
I don't know when Jesus went to the Father in heaven. You seem to say that he did as soon as he died. I don't believe that.
Jesus may have ascended into heaven after his resurrection 3 days later or it may have been 40 days later as everyone watched.
He told one of the women not to handle him after his resurrection because he had not yet been with his Father.

You are still letting theology drive your reasoning.

The redeemed don't go to Abraham's bosom post the Cross. They don't taste death. You seem stuck on the manifestions of God, via His plan, but fail to see that physical Paradise was opened up after God became flesh. Thus allowing souls in Abraham's bosom, part of sheol, to physically resurrect and physically enter Paradise.

The redeemed don't taste death post the sending of the Holy Spirit, 50 days after the cross.
This is when the spirits of Abraham and the rest of the dead ascended into heaven.
Bodily resurrection won't occur until Jesus returns.

The entire OT body of saints ascended to heaven on Sunday morning, as the firstfruits of the NT Covenant. They were presented to the Father in the order of presentation mentioned by Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Christ the firstfruits.

Christ alone is mentioned as the firstfruits of bodily resurrection, 3 days after the cross.

The next presentation will be the entire church glorified, the redeemed no longer separated from their spirit. That is the Second Coming.

The next resurrection will be for the bodies of both Old and New Testament Saints. Jesus will bring all of the spirits when he comes from heaven to be reunited with the freshly resurrected bodies.

The last presentation will be the entire creation after the 1,000 year reign where even death will be defeated.

The last bodily resurrection will take place at this time on earth. Then all who belong to Christ will go to the Father in heaven, to the new Jerusalem.

It is not just about manifestions. It is about the redemption of Adam's offspring both physical and spiritual. That restoration brings us back to being sons of God in the image of God, soul, body, and spirit. No longer in the temporal, corruptible, dead image of Adam under the bondage of sin and death.

Until the Cross, the redeemed were souls in Abraham's bosom waiting for a physical resurrection. Now the redeemed are physically enjoying Paradise until the Second Coming and the restoration of the spirit.

Resurrection is a reference to bodies only. It has nothing to do with the spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

Revelation 4, has a lot of insight on this. Whether or not one believes Jesus is at the right hand or not still, makes a big difference.

 

[6 Stories]

Revelation 4, has a lot of insight on this. Whether or not one believes Jesus is at the right hand or not still, makes a big difference.

I think we all believe Jesus is at the right hand of God. The question is when did Jesus receive the scroll, the moment he ascended to the right hand or at some time in the future? Some are saying Jesus ascended the moment he died, but I am not in agreement with that.

 

[MatthewG]

I think we all believe Jesus is at the right hand of God. The question is when did Jesus receive the scroll, the moment he ascended to the right hand or at some time in the future? Some are saying Jesus ascended the moment he died, but I am not in agreement with that.

I would not include myself, in with whatever one else thinks, 6 stories, I can't tell you a timestamp date. There are speculations that John received a portion of Revelation, before the other half. Meaning that John may have had some of the Revelation down, before finishing it up. (Which I believe was completed and sent out around 68AD.) There would have to been some point in time you are right about that though, and I tend to believe that Revelation 4, is the closest one to get at least seeing where Yeshua is at now, that language is unique.

Paul wrote - 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

This is where the idea of John having written down some of the revelation, before, however it may not hold any weight for anyone. Just like to share. I could be wrong about anything that is written down here, but I wouldn't group myself in with everyone else and what they may think.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He has not recieved it yet

 

[ewq1938]

God made us mortal so that when we sinned, we would not have to go to the lake of fire like the immortal angels who sinned.

No, God made us mortal because He makes all life mortal and only grants immortality to those who are saved.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree that Abraham's bosom was the state of death.
I don't know when Jesus went to the Father in heaven. You seem to say that he did as soon as he died. I don't believe that.
Jesus may have ascended into heaven after his resurrection 3 days later or it may have been 40 days later as everyone watched.
He told one of the women not to handle him after his resurrection because he had not yet been with his Father.

The redeemed don't taste death post the sending of the Holy Spirit, 50 days after the cross.
This is when the spirits of Abraham and the rest of the dead ascended into heaven.
Bodily resurrection won't occur until Jesus returns.

Christ alone is mentioned as the firstfruits of bodily resurrection, 3 days after the cross.

The next resurrection will be for the bodies of both Old and New Testament Saints. Jesus will bring all of the spirits when he comes from heaven to be reunited with the freshly resurrected bodies.

The last bodily resurrection will take place at this time on earth. Then all who belong to Christ will go to the Father in heaven, to the new Jerusalem.

Resurrection is a reference to bodies only. It has nothing to do with the spirit.

"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her."

Jesus told Mary he was about to ascend. He came back the same day on the road to Emmaus.

The firstfruits were the OT redeemed physically removed from Abraham's bosom, and ascended to Paradise. Matthew stated they physically came out of their graves the moment the veil was torn from top to bottom. Name one reason why they physically had to die again. We only have to physically die one time, not over and over again.

 

[ScottA]

Rev 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..."

Rev 5:1-7
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Jesus apparently did not have the Revelation while he was on earth.

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

There is one timeline and also one eternal line...that is one according to men and the ways of this created world that exist only for "a time, times, and half a time", and there is also a reality that does not exist on a timeline but is eternal (always).

In the eternal, Jesus received the revelation scroll/book "before the foundation of the world" after which He became the Word--including all that is written.

The difference then and why the Son did not know ("the day or the hour") but only the Father, is because He lowered Himself to be within the timeline of the revelations given by God, "line upon line, here a little, there a little." Within that timeline existence God is rightly called "Son" and therefore only received from the Father according to what is written, which was not then completely fulfilled, and thus not known to Him as "Son" existing as a man within the unfinished timeline. In other words, as a man Jesus was subject to the timeline of men and the revelation timeline of the Father.

Consider then when considering the timeline of revelation given to men, if given "here a little, there a little"...and that we the church are His body, even now not fully complete-- is revelation given today, because He in His body is not yet fully complete? And what was to be the leading unto all truth--was it not by the Holy Spirit who comes regularly even during these days? What then shall we consider is the finish of the scroll, that bitter sweet word that makes it complete? Is it yet to come in full because the door is not yet closed? Or what, is the door closed already, or open?

But we are speaking of the things of God, which, if we can receive it, ought to cut the road and worldly timeline off immediately behind those who pass for death to life...thus making every revelation "in the twinkling of an eye." Which would mean that Jesus received the scroll/book at His own passing--and we who are His with Him.

 

[6 Stories]

I would not include myself, in with whatever one else thinks, 6 stories, I can't tell you a timestamp date. There are speculations that John received a portion of Revelation, before the other half. Meaning that John may have had some of the Revelation down, before finishing it up. (Which I believe was completed and sent out around 68AD.) There would have to been some point in time you are right about that though, and I tend to believe that Revelation 4, is the closest one to get at least seeing where Yeshua is at now, that language is unique.

Paul wrote - 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

This is where the idea of John having written down some of the revelation, before, however it may not hold any weight for anyone. Just like to share. I could be wrong about anything that is written down here, but I wouldn't group myself in with everyone else and what they may think.

Any thoughts about the timing of Jesus (not John) receiving the Revelation scroll?

 

[MatthewG]

Any thoughts about the timing of Jesus (not John) receiving the Revelation scroll?

When the Father was ready, for him to receive and pass on the message? (Sometime before 70AD.) An exact time, I couldn't tell ya.

Revelation 1:1
This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John,

Revelation 5​

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New American Standard Bible​

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​

The Scroll with Seven Seals​

5 I saw [a]in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a [b]scroll written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to break its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5 And one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to be able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6 And I saw [c]between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are [d]the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. 8 When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the [e]saints. 9 And they *sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are You to take the scroll and to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
10 You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Any thoughts about the timing of Jesus (not John) receiving the Revelation scroll?

He has not recieved it yet.

there are believers who have already been risen in the same room as him..

that has not happened yet

 

[MatthewG]

He has not recieved it yet.

there are believers who have already been risen in the same room as him..

that has not happened yet

What is your reasoning for he has not received it yet, if I may ask?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is your reasoning for he has not received it yet, if I may ask?

I stated it in my post..

Look who is in the room with him.

rev 4:
You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

The word had not even gone out to every tribe language people and nation. Let alone has the ressurection took place yet. So it could nto have happened yet.

 

[MatthewG]

I stated it in my post..

Look who is in the room with him.

rev 4:
You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

The word had not even gone out to every tribe language people and nation. Let alone has the ressurection took place yet. So it could nto have happened yet.

Oh, I understand you. You consider that all the nations would be all the nations all over the world, I tend to look at that a little differently (due to earth referring to the context of the land of that time period in that day). The Gospel has to reach all of the nations of todays world, in order for Christ to be ready to come and return, and therefore he has yet to not receive it. Make sense to me, EG.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh, I understand you. You consider that all the nations would be all the nations all over the world, I tend to look at that a little differently (due to earth referring to the context of the land of that time period in that day). The Gospel has to reach all of the nations of todays world, in order for Christ to be ready to come and return, and therefore he has yet to not receive it. Make sense to me, EG.

Yes.. And he gets the scroll. And what happens when he opens the scroll?

 

[MatthewG]

Yes.. And he gets the scroll. And what happens when he opens the scroll?

I dont know.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I dont know.

Start in Chapter 6, People call this the begining of Gods day of wrath. Or the Tim of Jacobs trouble. Or As jesus called it, the great tribulation which will fall onto the world.