When did Jesus receive the Revelation scroll/book?

[ewq1938]

I don't understand the confusion. Abraham and the rich man had a conversation. How do you propose that happened?

God allowed it for teaching purposes. Doesn't change the fact that hades is a separate place from heaven/A-bosom. Hades has no "good side".

Neither Barnes or Gill seem to have a problem with my interpretation.

Neither agree with the idea that Christ took the good people of hades to heaven in the taking captivity captive. It doesn't mean what you suggest. It means to fully defeat your enemies not steal good people out of hades.

1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" The procession of hell's captives from "the good side of hell" to heaven is captivity taken captive. These captives of hell are now captives of Christ and in heaven.

Nobody was with God before Jesus was put to death.

That's false. Just because Christ brought people to God does not mean there wasn't a way to God before that. Christ brought a better way is all.

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What are your thoughts about Jesus' soul being in hell in Acts 2:31?

One could not just repent and be forgiven in the OT. There was a priest, animal sacrifices and blood etc...all done at certain times. If one had sins forgiven and died, you went to heaven. If you sinned and died before any of these official times when sin was forgiven you went to hades. It is those Christ went to. There isn't a good side of hades but some good people went there because of how forgiveness of sins worked in the OT.

 

[6 Stories]

I was unable to respond for a little while, but EWQ's post disappeared. My final statement here for any who are interested in this topic confirms without doubt that paradise was in hell at the time Jesus died.

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is another way to state Heb 9:23-28 above.
The place Jesus went to prepare for his disciples and us and OT saints was heaven. Jesus's blood was needed in heaven before any man could go there.

Old Testament saints could not go to heaven because of sin.
In the Rev 5 picture of Jesus, he had not even had the chance to sit down with the Father after his sacrifice...see verse 12 below.
Through Jesus' sacrifice, both old and new testament saints, having been perfected, can enter into holiest heaven.

Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hebrews 11 is the "Hall of Faith" for OT saints saints. What does Hebrews 11:39-40 confirm?
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Remember the thief on the cross?
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
We know from Acts 2:31 that Jesus went to hell when he died that day. Therefore, paradise was in hell at the time of Jesus' death.

 

[6 Stories]

Oops, now EWQ's post is back. I hope I answered it for everyone.

 

[ewq1938]

My final statement here for any who are interested in this topic confirms without doubt that paradise was in hell at the time Jesus died.

Paradise has never been in hell. Hell or hades was a separate place, separated by a gulf. That alone proves there were two places not one.

Not one scripture you posted says any differently.

John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is another way to state Heb 9:23-28 above.
The place Jesus went to prepare for his disciples and us and OT saints was heaven. Jesus's blood was needed in heaven before any man could go there.

Same place it has always been, where saved and forgiven OT saints went.

Old Testament saints could not go to heaven because of sin.

The law had forgiveness of sin so people who were forgiven could and did go to heaven.

In the Rev 5 picture of Jesus, he had not even had the chance to sit down with the Father after his sacrifice...see verse 12 below.
Through Jesus' sacrifice, both old and new testament saints, having been perfected, can enter into holiest heaven.

Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Not since the cross but in the OT, under the old covenant there was a way to take away sin which is atonement and forgiveness of sin. The problem with the old system is that it was laborious and involved many people and things so one would not remain sinless for long because people sinned often. Now, we can just repent and that takes a second and can be done many times a day. That couldn't happen in the OT.





Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hebrews 11 is the "Hall of Faith" for OT saints saints. What does Hebrews 11:39-40 confirm?
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Remember the thief on the cross?
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
We know from Acts 2:31 that Jesus went to hell when he died that day. Therefore, paradise was in hell at the time of Jesus' death.

Jesus went to paradise to meet with his father and he also went to hades. The thief went to paradise not hades.

 

[6 Stories]

Paradise has never been in hell. Hell or hades was a separate place, separated by a gulf. That alone proves there were two places not one.

Not one scripture you posted says any differently.





Same place it has always been, where saved and forgiven OT saints went.




The law had forgiveness of sin so people who were forgiven could and did go to heaven.





Not since the cross but in the OT, under the old covenant there was a way to take away sin which is atonement and forgiveness of sin. The problem with the old system is that it was laborious and involved many people and things so one would not remain sinless for long because people sinned often. Now, we can just repent and that takes a second and can be done many times a day. That couldn't happen in the OT.





Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:







Jesus went to paradise to meet with his father and he also went to hades. The thief went to paradise not hades.

John 20:11-17
11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[ewq1938]

John 20:11-17
11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

That is bodily ascension, not ascending as spirit which happens at death.

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit returns to God at death.


Mat_8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ said this before the cross and makes it clear OT saints such as Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, are in the kingdom of heaven at the time he spoke this. This proves OT people could die and go to heaven and that everyone did not go to hades.


Christ went to Heaven/Paradise to his Father as we all do when we die. From there he went to the "grave" where the unsaved dead were, and then he arose after 3 days and returned to his disciples before his "ascension" to his throne beside his Father. Ascension involves a full body ascending which did not occur when Jesus died as his body remained in the tomb and his Spirit went to God and later to the "hell".

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

This is a reference to after the cross but before the resurrection and eventual bodily ascension.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

This is the same reference made in verse 1.



Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;


This is a reference to the ascension that came after his resurrection.


Joh 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

This is a reference to after the cross but before the resurrection and eventual ascension.


Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

This is the same reference made in verse 16.


Four times Jesus spoke about where he would go after dying. The Father is in paradise/heaven so going to Him means Jesus did in fact go to paradise after dying.

 

[6 Stories]

That is bodily ascension, not ascending as spirit which happens at death.

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit returns to God at death.

"The spirit returns to God at death" has only been true since Jesus ascended back into heaven after his death. The spirit of OT saints waited in hades. They did "return unto God who gave it" after Jesus returned unto God.

Mat_8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Christ said this before the cross and makes it clear OT saints such as Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, are in the kingdom of heaven at the time he spoke this. This proves OT people could die and go to heaven and that everyone did not go to hades.


Christ went to Heaven/Paradise to his Father as we all do when we die. From there he went to the "grave" where the unsaved dead were, and then he arose after 3 days and returned to his disciples before his "ascension" to his throne beside his Father. Ascension involves a full body ascending which did not occur when Jesus died as his body remained in the tomb and his Spirit went to God and later to the "hell".

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

This is a reference to after the cross but before the resurrection and eventual bodily ascension.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

This is the same reference made in verse 1.



Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;


This is a reference to the ascension that came after his resurrection.


Joh 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

This is a reference to after the cross but before the resurrection and eventual ascension.


Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

This is the same reference made in verse 16.


Four times Jesus spoke about where he would go after dying. The Father is in paradise/heaven so going to Him means Jesus did in fact go to paradise after dying.

Jesus did go to the Father after death, but not immediately.

John 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Notice the order of events in 1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

18 Jesus is put to death.
18. Jesus is alive in the spirit.
19. Jesus preached to the spirits in prison (hades).
21. Jesus is resurrected.
22. Jesus is in heaven.
22. Jesus' power and authority is restored.

So nobody forgets what this thread is all about, verse 22 is the time Jesus received the Revelation scroll/book.

 

[BlessedPeace]

NIV) Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,...

 

[ewq1938]

"The spirit returns to God at death" has only been true since Jesus ascended back into heaven after his death.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 proves that wrong.

The spirit of OT saints waited in hades.

Not those who were saved like Lazarus.

Jesus did go to the Father after death, but not immediately.

Had to be immediately because after being in hades he was resurrected. The only time to go to the Father is immediately at death exactly as Ecclesiastes 12:7 says.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 proves that wrong.





Not those who were saved like Lazarus.



Had to be immediately because after being in hades he was resurrected. The only time to go to the Father is immediately at death exactly as Ecclesiastes 12:7 says.

Don't forget Psalm 139:8 . God is Omnipresent.
If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there.

 

[6 Stories]

NIV) Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,...

Jesus received the Revelation before passing it along. The Revelation was passed down from the Father to the Son, through an angel to John to us.

...from Jesus Christ, which God gave him... as pictured in Rev 5.

...from Jesus Christ...to show his servants...

 

[6 Stories]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 proves that wrong.





Not those who were saved like Lazarus.



Had to be immediately because after being in hades he was resurrected. The only time to go to the Father is immediately at death exactly as Ecclesiastes 12:7 says.

There are bible texts that seem contrary, which is not unusual. I am assured in my mind through the following texts that Jesus' spirit went to hades and not to heaven for at least 3 days. This point of view supports my larger unifying theory about prisoners/captives in hades being led by Jesus into heaven because Jesus was the only "man" who was ever in heaven before the ascension of Jesus. No people are seen in heaven either before or at the time of Jesus' ascension in Rev 4 and 5, but they are in heaven after this time. I believe assumptions made about the timing of Revelation events has been incorrect for 2000 years and that is the reason no consensus has been reached. The threads that I start will center around that timing and about narrowing definitions of Biblical events. It is my hope that consensus can be reached through discussions like this.

John 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:8 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

John 3:13 " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

You are assured in your mind that I am wrong because of all of the texts which you site. I am disappointed, but I accept that. It is still possible that my unifying theories are not correct, but I still need convincing in that regard. I think all of us have "confirmation bias." We gather the things that we agree with and reject the things that we don't. Hopefully, these discussions will lead all of us to the truth.

 

[ewq1938]

It is still possible that my unifying theories are not correct, but I still need convincing in that regard. I think all of us have "confirmation bias." We gather the things that we agree with and reject the things that we don't. Hopefully, these discussions will lead all of us to the truth.

Would you like to take each of the passages I posted and comment on them individually? I believe they show that Christ did visit his father prior to descending into hades.

 

[6 Stories]

Would you like to take each of the passages I posted and comment on them individually? I believe they show that Christ did visit his father prior to descending into hades.

Thanks, but no. I have considered every passage as you have. We just disagree.

 

[Timtofly]

Remember the thief on the cross?
Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
We know from Acts 2:31 that Jesus went to hell when he died that day. Therefore, paradise was in hell at the time of Jesus' death.

This proves nothing.

You said no one could go to heaven. You forgot, that no one could enter Paradise either. Genesis 3:23-24

"Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Paradise means garden. Paradise is where the tree of life is, and always has been. Jesus did not say He was going to Paradise. God was telling the thief, that the thief would be going to Paradise. Jesus went to Abraham's bosom and in an instant all from Abraham's bosom walked physically out of their graves even before the thief physically died. The thief did not go to Abraham's bosom, as it no longer existed. The thief died hours later, and went to heaven where God dwells, because that is where Paradise is. The thief did not even die when Jesus died.

Even Paul said Paradise was the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, How that he was caught up into paradise."

Your verse proves the thief went to heaven. Your verse does not state Paradise is in sheol. That is an erroneous interpretation.

Jesus did spend 3 days in the heart of the earth, even in a cave. No verse states any other human joined Him in that cave. Jesus was physically dead, enough time, to prove to the religious leaders, He was dead, and just not sleeping somewhere.

 

[6 Stories]

This proves nothing.

You said no one could go to heaven. You forgot, that no one could enter Paradise either. Genesis 3:23-24

"Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

God did not want anyone who was alive on earth to eat of the tree of life after they had sinned because they would have ended up in the lake of fire.

Paradise means garden. Paradise is where the tree of life is, and always has been. Jesus did not say He was going to Paradise. God was telling the thief, that the thief would be going to Paradise. Jesus went to Abraham's bosom and in an instant all from Abraham's bosom walked physically out of their graves even before the thief physically died. The thief did not go to Abraham's bosom, as it no longer existed. The thief died hours later, and went to heaven where God dwells, because that is where Paradise is. The thief did not even die when Jesus died.

Those in Paradise, also in my opinion called Abraham's bosom, were able to eat of the tree of life. They were unable to ascend into heaven because heaven was not yet prepared. Heaven had to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus, the Lamb, before mankind could enter.

Even Paul said Paradise was the third heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:2-4

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, How that he was caught up into paradise."

Your verse proves the thief went to heaven. Your verse does not state Paradise is in sheol. That is an erroneous interpretation.

Jesus did spend 3 days in the heart of the earth, even in a cave. No verse states any other human joined Him in that cave. Jesus was physically dead, enough time, to prove to the religious leaders, He was dead, and just not sleeping somewhere.

Paul saw Paradise in the third heaven after Jesus had prepared heaven.
Jesus took the whole place and everybody in it with him after heaven was made ready.

Hebrews 11:13-17
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

OT people of faith did not receive the promise of heaven.
Heaven was not yet prepared until Jesus was the lamb in heaven in Rev 5.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

God provided New Testament saints with heaven and then OT saints were also allowed in.

 

[Timtofly]

God did not want anyone who was alive on earth to eat of the tree of life after they had sinned because they would have ended up in the lake of fire.

Those in Paradise, also in my opinion called Abraham's bosom, were able to eat of the tree of life. They were unable to ascend into heaven because heaven was not yet prepared. Heaven had to be sprinkled with the blood of Jesus, the Lamb, before mankind could enter.

Paul saw Paradise in the third heaven after Jesus had prepared heaven.
Jesus took the whole place and everybody in it with him after heaven was made ready.

Hebrews 11:13-17
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

OT people of faith did not receive the promise of heaven.
Heaven was not yet prepared until Jesus was the lamb in heaven in Rev 5.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

God provided New Testament saints with heaven and then OT saints were also allowed in.

If they ate of the tree of life in Abraham's bosom, you claim, they would go to the LOF.

 

[6 Stories]

If they ate of the tree of life in Abraham's bosom, you claim, they would go to the LOF.

Those in Abraham's bosom already died in the flesh. Once the flesh is dead, it's ok to eat of the tree of life and live forever.
They would have gone to the LOF if they of the tree of life without having forgiveness of sin.

I wonder if Paradise, the Garden of Eden, sunk into the earth during the flood of Noah?

Order of events in 1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

18 Death) Jesus died in the flesh, but was made alive in the Spirit.
19 Alive in the Spirit) In the Spirit, Jesus went to Paradise (place of the spirits in prison) in the belly of the earth.
20 Spirit in Hades) Only 8 people didn't go to hades (good or bad side) during the flood.
21 Bodily Resurrection) Jesus rose from the belly of the earth and we will too. Baptism is a picture of resurrection.
22 Bodily Ascension) Jesus ascended into heaven after he was resurrected.

 

[ewq1938]

Once the flesh is dead, it's ok to eat of the tree of life and live forever.

What scripture supports that? Also, how can you eat if you are dead and have no body?

 

[6 Stories]

What scripture supports that? Also, how can you eat if you are dead and have no body?

Who has eaten of the tree of life since sin entered the world? Everyone's body has to die because of sin even though the eternal life of God is already in us.

I don't really comprehend a 'spiritual body.' Jesus had one when he rose from the dead. People have some sort of 'tent' or body as spirits in heaven seen as 'clothes.' 2 Cor 5:

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.