When is a christian NOT a Christian?

[TheWind]

( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."

I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

A Christian is a disciple of Christ and a disciple of Christ keeps the commandments of Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

The problem is that you have no credibility whatsoever, since everyone who rejects your nonsense is a liar.Just like everyone who is critical of the Catholic Church is a liar for Bread of Life.

And your obnoxious rants are all over this forum.

I think all of us would do well to consider that "whatever measure you mete..." absolutely includes judgment calls we make about others with which we disagree.

If we determine our opponents to be "liars", "saboteurs", "lost" because they disagree with us...then we better make sure that every single theological word that drops from our lips is in perfect harmony with God, seeing that He will apply the exact same methods of computation when determining what we are.

It's just safer to give people the benefit of the doubt and those who insist otherwise are just demonstrating how stunted is their growth, both spiritually and mentally.

 

[Phoneman777]

... And you just added another one to your long list ...

Bobby Jo


To All,
It's too bad that when a person can't defend their theology, they assail their opponent. So does that make them a Christian, or a christian, or a Sadducee, or a Pharisee, or a -- fill in the blank --?

Bobby Jo

There was nothing obnoxious about what he said...just calm, cool, collect, accurate analysis of your behavior. Your posts are one non-stop inappropriate, ad hominem response after the other.

 

[Phoneman777]

( EDIT:- addition....I am added this and changed the heading.
I am NOT after a list of verses about salvation...but I want to hear 'from you'.
I changed the heading when responding to @Enoch111 's post below. )
thanks....
-------

I was thinking it would be interesting what other Christians here think a Christian is...
AND who is 'allowed' to call themselves that?

(We'd like you in on this too @lforrest don't want you missing this post. )

There was some chatter the other day about who was 'allowed' to have "Christian" under their avatar and who should put 'Other Faith', in it's place. ( locking them out of 95% of the forum boards)
So, who defines who can call themselves a christian?

The Nicene creed was mentioned. > for those who don't know it , or have forgotten its content. Nicene Creed

I for one don't agree with a line at the end of it... re the Holy Spirit. It says:-
"He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified."

I don't agree with that... I don't care if they were wise old men with beards.
I don't find that (bolded line) anywhere in the bible at all. In fact it is says He points TO the Father and Son. ( away from Himself)

The Nicene Creed would also define as none-christian any who have a different interpretation of what is called "The Trinity" ...with all the gobbledegook that goes with it about whether it is three persons in one, or one person with three distinct expressions...blah blah blah...
So, if the Nicene Creed is the acid test....are the none trinitarians not christians along with me...( who doesn't believe the Holy Spirit wants to be 'worshipped and glorified'. )

So, who says who is a christian, and who is not.

What do all of you have to say?

.....Helen

That's a point worth considering. The Holy Spirit is God in the highest sense and we are to worship God...but we don't find anything explicit example of the Holy Spirit receiving worship, right? Or am I wrong? I don't claim to know everything about everything, but what I do know I fiercely defend.

 

[TheWind]

That's a point worth considering. The Holy Spirit is God in the highest sense and we are to worship God...but we don't find anything explicit example of the Holy Spirit receiving worship, right? Or am I wrong? I don't claim to know everything about everything, but what I do know I fiercely defend.

God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in heart and in God, who is the Spirit of Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

"this is that and that is this"
"the digital won't let me go"

 

[Episkopos]

I don't see how you separate the first two. Both are attributes of Christ, seeing we're told to "walk even as He walked" and to be humble even as He is "meek and lowly in heart". The word "Christian" means a person who "follows Christ" which word "follow" simply means "imitates" Christ by the only means we can: the surrender of our heart throne to Christ, right?

The difference between the saint and the righteous is whose power is being walked in. A righteous man does what is right with what he has already been given. A righteous person will sin...but he will bring restitution for those sins. He will ask forgiveness and correct the fault done to others.

A holy person walks in Christ where we become partakers of HIS holiness, and His resurrection eternal life. In Him is no sin at all.

So the difference is HUGE.

But this is not taught today because everyone is satisfied to be walking in their own strength...claiming all the promises for themselves even as they lead a life in sin. Belief systems have replaced the biblical miraculous faith OF Jesus Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in heart and in God, who is the Spirit of Jesus.

"...must worship Him in Spirit and in truth" says the KJV. But, what about the Holy Spirit?

Jesus said we're to pray to the Father.

The Bible says we are to worship God the Father and the Father says that Jesus has been exalted before Creation and that we should worship Him, too.

Is there a text that says we're to worship the Holy Spirit? I think it's safe to say the Holy Spirit as God recieves worship when we worship God...is there another way to prove this?

 

[TheWind]

"...must worship Him in Spirit and in truth" says the KJV. But, what about the Holy Spirit?

Jesus said we're to pray to the Father.

The Bible says we are to worship God the Father and the Father says that Jesus has been exalted before Creation and that we should worship Him, too.

Is there a text that says we're to worship the Holy Spirit? I think it's safe to say the Holy Spirit as God recieves worship when we worship God...is there another way to prove this?

The interpretation is correct: and Jesus is the Spirit of God the Father.

 

[Phoneman777]

The difference between the saint and the righteous is whose power is being walked in. A righteous man does what is right with what he has already been given. A righteous person will sin...but he will bring restitution for those sins. He will ask forgiveness and correct the fault done to others.

A holy person walks in Christ where we become partakers of HIS holiness, and His resurrection eternal life. In Him is no sin at all.

So the difference is HUGE.

But this is not taught today because everyone is satisfied to be walking in their own strength...claiming all the promises for themselves even as they lead a life in sin. Belief systems have replaced the biblical miraculous faith OF Jesus Christ.

I'll have to consider these points further, but thanks

 

[Philip James]

I think it's safe to say the Holy Spirit as God recieves worship when we worship God

Hi phoneman,
Indeed. And God is One!

Therefore to worship the Son is to worship the Father and the Spirit, to worship the Father is to worship the Son and the Spirit, and to worship the Spirit is to worship the Father and the Son...
They are indivisible...

Peace be with you!

 

[Helen]

That's a point worth considering. The Holy Spirit is God in the highest sense and we are to worship God...but we don't find anything explicit example of the Holy Spirit receiving worship, right? Or am I wrong? I don't claim to know everything about everything, but what I do know I fiercely defend.

Agree
And you are a rare bird...most people claim to know everything about everything!

I found that when I was in my 30's I knew everything and had my doctrine neatly tied up. In my 50's I dumped some things and saw truth in other things...By my 60's I thought I was pretty much balanced and solid.

In my 70's I am still learning...
Like you, what I believe I am unshakeable on...and a few things I now 'hold lightly'.... only God knows....and at the moment He is not telling!

 

[Helen]

A Christian is a disciple of Christ and a disciple of Christ keeps the commandments of Christ.

If you read the thread you would see I was not asking what a Christian was, but 'who decides who is a christian and who is not...'
Hence the title...'When is a Christian not a christian?'

It was long and involved...more about people who tell other people on Forums that they are not a Christian.

Most people posted about what I christian was, A few understood my post and answered with what I was after ...see post #11
That is what I wanted to see.

No worries. The thread got a bit long ...LOL

 

[brakelite]

Agree
And you are a rare bird...most people claim to know everything about everything!

I found that when I was in my 30's I knew everything and had my doctrine neatly tied up. In my 50's I dumped some things and saw truth in other things...By my 60's I thought I was pretty much balanced and solid.

In my 70's I am still learning...
Like you, what I believe I am unshakeable on...and a few things I now 'hold lightly'.... only God knows....and at the moment He is not telling!

I first received Christ age 23. Backslide age 35. Came back age 45. At that point acknowledged I knew nothing. Today I'm a pebble on a huge beach looking out at an infinite Ocean... The only thing I know is that there are next to me pebbles who see things I can't see, and can't see things I do. And there is a vast infinite universe out there about which none of us know diddly squat.

 

[Helen]

I first received Christ age 23. Backslide age 35. Came back age 45. At that point acknowledged I knew nothing. Today I'm a pebble on a huge beach looking out at an infinite Ocean... The only thing I know is that there are next to me pebbles who see things I can't see, and can't see things I do. And there is a vast infinite universe out there about which none of us know diddly squat.

Lovely...
I hope you are writing it all down for your grandkids ...you have a gift of painting pictures with words.

To my shame I was the other way...by five years after being saved, I thought I knew everything....especially about biblical time lines and prophesy!
I would spout it to anyone who would listen , and think I was doing them a favour.

I took some breaking and humbling...but God kept at me and chipped of the edges.
Now, in my elderly 'wisdom' , I smile when I read people on here who post to another " You are wrong"....LOL I think all of us will be in for some shocks when we all get Home.

My husband ( 81) said the other day...How come when we are young we think we know it all....but now I have walked almost 60 yrs with the Lord, and know a few things , no one is around to listen.

Such is life .....H

 

[Phoneman777]

The interpretation is correct: and Jesus is the Spirit of God the Father.

But didn't Jesus say "a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see Me have"?

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi phoneman,
Indeed. And God is One!

Therefore to worship the Son is to worship the Father and the Spirit, to worship the Father is to worship the Son and the Spirit, and to worship the Spirit is to worship the Father and the Son...
They are indivisible...

Peace be with you!

Now that makes a ton of sense.

 

[TheWind]

But didn't Jesus say "a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see Me have"?

The flesh of Jesus rose without decay by the Spirit of God that was in him: which is his very Spirit.

 

[Phoneman777]

Agree
And you are a rare bird...most people claim to know everything about everything!

I found that when I was in my 30's I knew everything and had my doctrine neatly tied up. In my 50's I dumped some things and saw truth in other things...By my 60's I thought I was pretty much balanced and solid.

In my 70's I am still learning...
Like you, what I believe I am unshakeable on...and a few things I now 'hold lightly'.... only God knows....and at the moment He is not telling!

Says Mark Twain: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

 

[Helen]

View attachment 6919
Says Mark Twain: "When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

Yep...that hits the nail on the head... My head!! lol