Disagreeing with us is NOT the criterion. But contradicting Scripture is the criterion. And we can determine objectively as to who is obnoxious and who is a saboteur FROM THEIR OWN WORDS. The apostle John called false teachers "liars" and "antichrists".
When is a christian NOT a Christian?
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Phoneman777
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I still like to give people the benefit of the doubt, though. I don't think Bobbi Jo is a liar or a saboteur - just an immature professing Christian with so severe a hermeneutical handicap that he'd easily qualify for Ministerial Medicaid.
Looks like we need to keep some emergency medical services on hand. Especially when the IEDs blow up.
Oh, at 30 odd I thought I knew heaps. Probably why I backslid. I realised however that after such an experience, my best hope was to start over from scratch... Acknowledging nothing but my ignorance. At the same time sorrowing that I had failed Him in raising my kids in the faith . All of a sudden it seemed they were teen-agers doing the stuff I had been doing before my initial conversion. That horrified me. I asked for the life of my children....Lovely...
I hope you are writing it all down for your grandkids ...you have a gift of painting pictures with words.
To my shame I was the other way...by five years after being saved, I thought I knew everything....especially about biblical time lines and prophesy!
I would spout it to anyone who would listen , and think I was doing them a favour.
I took some breaking and humbling...but God kept at me and chipped of the edges.
Now, in my elderly 'wisdom' , I smile when I read people on here who post to another " You are wrong"....LOL I think all of us will be in for some shocks when we all get Home.
My husband ( 81) said the other day...How come when we are young we think we know it all....but now I have walked almost 60 yrs with the Lord, and know a few things , no one is around to listen.
Such is life .....H
God spoke to me through
KJV Matthew 6
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Read it more carefully.
The verse from 2 John 1 does not say that Jesus Christ "came in the flesh" but rather is in the here and now, using the present tense, "is come in the flesh." It is one thing to believe that the Christ Spirit came in the flesh 2000 years ago and dwelt in Jesus and another thing to believe the same Spirit can come in our flesh today.
Hi Giuliano...
Welcome to the forum.
Don't you think every Christian believes that Jesus' spirit is still alive today?
And does the spirit of Jesus dwell within us or does the Holy Spirit dwell within us...or is there a difference?
So who is a Christian?
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Some may not call themselves Christians. Some may have received the Gospel from an angel.
Some people will be surprised on Judgment Day.
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Some may not call themselves Christians. Some may have received the Gospel from an angel.
Some people will be surprised on Judgment Day.
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Thanks for the welcome.
People may believe Jesus' spirit is alive today but without having it come in the flesh.
I believe there is one Christ Spirit. I believe everyone has his or her own spirit; but the same Spirit which dwelt in Jesus as head of the Body of Christ is meant to dwell in all the members of the Body.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
That is incorrect. It has been correctly translated "as coming in the flesh" (see some of the other versions), which is actually past tense (as having come in the flesh), and has nothing to do with Christ coming in the Spirit to believers.
I would not trust anyone to be my spiritual leader unless I was convinced he could honestly say the Christ Spirit dwelt in him.
How could you or anyone else here pretend to know what happened 2000 years ago? Were you there to observe things? I tell you that that at first we do not know. We hope and believe it may be possible. We do not have the "Spirit of Truth" to know such a thing; but if the Spirit of Truth has come, we can honestly say that we know the Spirit is in us and thus it is very believable that the same Spirit came in the flesh for Jesus.
Now you have said Jesus "is" God. Let's read on in 1 John 4.
1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
People saw Jesus. Go figure. That tells me something.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Back to John where the present tense is also used in places:
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
It is scarcely enough for someone with unclean lips to mouth some words without understanding and correct intention. People can lie. That is not a true confession. What good would it do anyone to say he believes the Christ Spirit was in Jesus if he doesn't pursue the matter so the Spirit also resides in him? The correct type of confession about Jesus means also that God will dwell in the person confessing. There is an incorrect sort.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
And I would say the easiest way to tell if you or I or anyone else has the Spirit is to look at our works. If we are filled with the Spirit and obedient to the Spirit's direction, it will show up one way or another. Love is not something that is kept bottled up. If God is present and acting through someone, we should see something good.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The Christ Spirit made it possible for Jesus to do the Father's works, and it is possible for us to do the same. It will do us no good to believe the Spirit of God was in Jesus if we can't believe the same Spirit can be in us.
What do you mean by the Christ Spirit
and what do you mean that we cannot know what happened 2,000 years ago?
Giuliano,
For a guy who is brand new to this forum, you are one very presumptuous individual who wants to argue rather than accept the truth, and at the same time refuses to believe that Jesus if God.
Also, the passage under discussion had nothing to do with the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer. So what you did is go off on a tangent because you misrepresented what was being said about false teachers -- that they denied that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh -- that Jesus of Nazareth was God who had come in human form.
For a guy who is brand new to this forum, you are one very presumptuous individual who wants to argue rather than accept the truth, and at the same time refuses to believe that Jesus if God.
Why do you start out with something that is totally irrelevant? If you are a member of a church, then look for your spiritual leaders in your own church. When you come to a forum such as this you have two options (1) communicate Bible truth by rightly dividing the Word of Truth or (2) promote you false beliefs and hope someone falls for them.
This is a totally BIZARRE statement. Christians don't merely *pretend* to know what happened 2000 or even 6000 years ago. God has given us a divine revelation in the Bible, therefore we know WITHOUT THE SHADOW OF A DOUBT that it is true. and the Gospels are a historical record of the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth.
Now you are showing YOUR TRUE COLORS. Had you understood what the Bible was revealing here, you would have also understood that no man has seen GOD THE FATHER. Which does not mean that no man has seen GOD THE SON. Jesus is God who took human form -- "God (Theos) manifest in the flesh". So your comment is telling everyone here that you do not believe that Jesus is God!
Now you are showing how presumptuous a brand new poster (with false doctrines) can be. Are you accusing me here or simply pretending to be super-spiritual?
When someone talks about "the Christ Spirit" he is showing Gnostic tendencies (which were and are heretical). There is no such thing as "the Christ Spirit making it possible to do the Father's works". Jesus -- who is God -- is in the Father, and the Father is in Him. At the same time He was always and continually filled with the Holy Spirit (the third Person of the triune Godhead). At the same time He was totally subject to the Father while He was on earth.
Also, the passage under discussion had nothing to do with the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer. So what you did is go off on a tangent because you misrepresented what was being said about false teachers -- that they denied that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh -- that Jesus of Nazareth was God who had come in human form.
Miss Hepburn
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Enoch, I must say...I think you are being WAY too hard on a new person here, @Giuliano
Disagreeing with a sentence or 2 is normal...but why so intense? Ask him what he means exactly, I betcha he would explain better.
The main point I see he is making is regarding the Spirit...the Spirit in us.
We are just getting to know him.
Disagreeing with a sentence or 2 is normal...but why so intense? Ask him what he means exactly, I betcha he would explain better.
The main point I see he is making is regarding the Spirit...the Spirit in us.
We are just getting to know him.
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I tend to agree with Enoch...but I am wiling to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Thing is, the moment he mentioned the Christ spirit, alarm bells went off all over the place. My thoughts went immediately to Oprah Winfrey...all occultists refer to the Christ spirit, and it ain't nothing to do with the Son of God.
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But this all sounds like ‘stumbling over a grain of sand ‘ to me...
How do we know what was ORIGINALLY written....it was not in English.
Roman’s 8 -9 reads .....
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
We ‘run to judgement ‘ very quickly.....time alone will tell.
I will soon be afraid to post in case the ‘language police’ grab me over my phraseology!
I understand completely. And I agree, that us why I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Another phrase I step back from is Christ consciousness. But thanks for the reminder, yes, I can jump to conclusions too quickly.But this all sounds like ‘stumbling over a grain of sand ‘ to me...
How do we know what was ORIGINALLY written....it was not in English.
Roman’s 8 -9 reads .....
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
We ‘run to judgement ‘ very quickly.....time alone will tell.
I will soon be afraid to post in case the ‘language police’ grab me over my phraseology!
I'm pressed for time so let me say for now Paul explained my position perhaps better than I could. Thanks for posting that. I hope to respond later to other things. If the Spirit of Christ does not dwell in someone, how can his mortal body be changed? How can the curse of death be reversed for him?But this all sounds like ‘stumbling over a grain of sand ‘ to me...
How do we know what was ORIGINALLY written....it was not in English.
Roman’s 8 -9 reads .....
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
We ‘run to judgement ‘ very quickly.....time alone will tell.
I will soon be afraid to post in case the ‘language police’ grab me over my phraseology!
Paul also said:
1 Corinthinans 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
I asked @Giuliano what the Christ Spirit is and I do hope he answers.
I really don't have any idea....
Is the Christ Spirit the same as Christ's spirit, for instance.
Is it like the Holy Spirit?
I don't know about the cult you mentioned..
and yes, the more one knows, the more bells go off.
Miss Hepburn
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Huh, I didn't know that. I can not imagine saying the Christ Spirit, Christ's Spirit or the Spirit of Christ as being bad...
I don't know that much about Oprah...I actually
don't know what an occultist is either!!!! Ha! I have no interest in looking it up..it's just not part of my life.
So no definition is necessary, thanks.
No one has to do what I think is 'nicer or more genteel' for a new person.
I believe Jesus was born special in one way and it may not be wrong to say he was born as Jesus Christ; but I also believe he became special in another way at his baptism. Something was missing in the earth. What was lost at the time of Adam's fall was attracted back to earth by Jesus. This was the spiritual covering of man -- the connection between God and man. John the Baptist was reluctant to baptize Jesus, but Jesus said it was necessary. Do we believe him? John said he saw a special descent of the Holy Spirit. Surely this was an anointing of Jesus by God the Father Himself sending this Spirit down. Let us not be confused here. "Christ" means "anointed." It is the Greek version of the Hebrew word translated as Messiah. It does not mean "God." The Spirit descended and Jesus was indeed born in a new way. Angels had announced his birth to Mary. Here we see a voice from Heaven announcing, "Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."
Remember now that God gave dominion over the earth to man. Thus it took a man to make the right decisions and exercise lawful and righteous dominion. Adam fell into error and lost his spiritual covering. Sin entered the world. Jesus came to correct those things. Notice that John the Baptist did not say "sins" but rather "sin" in this sentence: "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." This was "sin" which we humans couldn't fix. Even if we lived perfect lives somehow, this curse of sin removed -- death still reigned. If we sin, we can repent and be forgiven; but nothing we can do would fix this curse of death.
Christos as an anointing suggests oil being poured out. Yes, the Father poured it out, the Son received it; and what Jesus received from the Father can be shared with the followers of Jesus. It is one Spirit.
We read how Eve was tempted by the serpent, so we ought not be too surprised that Satan showed up to tempt Jesus. Could he make Jesus fall as he had Eve? He tried and failed. Nothing was going to get Jesus to disobey the Father. That would have broken his connection with the Father. "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
The resurrection of the saints depends on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
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