When is the Last Day?

[afaithfulone4u]

As we know Jesus fulfilled the Spring Feasts at is first coming and he shall also fulfill the Fall Feasts in his return. The Feast of Tabernacles will be the Last Day when our earthly tents that the Jews have been making and celebrating since Moses represents our frail earthly bodies that houses God, the indwelling Spirit that conforms us into the image of Christ will be raised up IN standard, character and integrity from the dead to life then being Caught up in the twinkling of an eye to the position of authority in Christ that God has prepared us for.
If you have eyes to see, you should see from these verses how the feast of Tabernacles is when the true holy body of Christ will GO UP(CAUGHT UP)to the temple(Christ and his chosen body members are the temple) in the MIDST/MIDDLE of the 7 DAY (Mid-Trib) feast IN SECRET in the last day of the Feast. It all takes place in the DAYS of the seventh angel sounds that the

John 6:39-44
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV
Neh 8:13-18
13 And on the second day were gathered together the chief of the fathers of all the people, the priests, and the Levites, unto Ezra the scribe, even to understand the words of the law{EDIFICATION RAISED UP INTO THE FULNESS OF CHRIST}.
14 And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month:
15 And that they should publish and proclaim in all their cities, and in Jerusalem, saying, Go forth unto the mount, and fetch olive branches, and pine branches, and myrtle branches, and palm branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths, as it is written.
16 So the people went forth, and brought them, and made themselves booths, every one upon the roof of his house, and in their courts, and in the courts of the house of God, and in the street of the water gate, and in the street of the gate of Ephraim.
17 And all the congregation of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and sat under the booths: for since the days of Jeshua{Yeshua} the son of Nun{NONE without father or mother} unto that day had not the children of Israel done so. And there was very great gladness.
18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
KJV
John 7:2
2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
KJV
John 7:10
10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
KJV
John 7:11
11 Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
KJV
John 7:14-15
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned{Spirit teaches we need no man}?
KJV
John 7:37-40
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
KJV
John 11:24-26
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
KJV
John 12:48
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
KJV
Rev 10:6-7
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV
Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

 

[veteran]

These following Scriptures actually set the timing when the "last day" is meant in relation to Christ's second coming and gathering of His saints...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(KJV)

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

In the Matt.24 Scripture, the gathering is pointing to the 'asleep' saints that have already died. In the Mark 13 example, the gathering is pointing to the saints still alive on earth on the day of Christ's return. But both... Scriptures are implicit that will take place after the "great tribulation" Jesus taught there.

And since right after the tribulation aligns with the end... of Daniel's "one week", it means no gathering prior to the tribulation, nor during any part of it. This is how all the timings in the Book of Daniel and Revelation about Christ's second coming line up also.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

These following Scriptures actually set the timing when the "last day" is meant in relation to Christ's second coming and gathering of His saints...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(KJV)

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

In the Matt.24 Scripture, the gathering is pointing to the 'asleep' saints that have already died. In the Mark 13 example, the gathering is pointing to the saints still alive on earth on the day of Christ's return. But both... Scriptures are implicit that will take place after the "great tribulation" Jesus taught there.

And since right after the tribulation aligns with the end... of Daniel's "one week", it means no gathering prior to the tribulation, nor during any part of it. This is how all the timings in the Book of Daniel and Revelation about Christ's second coming line up also.

The resurrection did happen after the tribulation and after the temple was destroyed. That happened in 70 AD. We know that Daniel was speaking to Jews, and we know that Jesus was speaking to Jews when he said 'this generation' would not pass away. 70 AD was still in their generation.

When one reads the 'War of the Jews' by Josephus, then one can see the tribulation that came upon Jews.

 

[williemac]

The resurrection did happen after the tribulation and after the temple was destroyed. That happened in 70 AD. We know that Daniel was speaking to Jews, and we know that Jesus was speaking to Jews when he said 'this generation' would not pass away. 70 AD was still in their generation.

When one reads the 'War of the Jews' by Josephus, then one can see the tribulation that came upon Jews.

If that is what you believe, then I humbly submit that you have false knowledge of what exactly the resurrection is and who it applies to. Whatever happened in 70 ad, it was NOT the fulfillment of the coming of the Lord, nor the fulfillment of the resurrection at what was referred to as the last trumpet. When Jesus comes on the clouds in glory, the whole world and all its nations and tribes shall see it and know about it. There will be no discussion or debate. It will be common knowledge among mankind. Thus if the resurrection happened already, then firstly, we missed it, and secondly, there would be no debate, as we would all be aware of it. In the resurrection, all who belong to the Lord will be changed and given a new body that is immortal and incorruptible. How else will we live forever? In your suggestion that the resurrection and the day of the Lord are both past, you exclude all who have come to Him since 70 ad, including yourself. Listen and learn from your piers. Whoever your present teacher is, and I suspect I know, is in error and has misled you. Speaking of the tribulation of the Jews, is the recent slaughter of six million less tribulation than when the temple was destroyed? But Jesus spoke of a tribulation such as the whole world has never seen. Far worse has happened since 70 ad, and the worst is yet to come, my friend.

 

[ENOCH2010]

If the resurrection has already happened, show me evidence. Something as profound as the resurrection would no doubt be recorded in print and handed down from generation to generation. No my friend the second coming and resurrection hasn't happened yet


Back to topic.... The last day begins with the return of the Lord, which is the second coming-first resurrection, written about in Rev. chapter 20

 

[Rocky Wiley]

If that is what you believe, then I humbly submit that you have false knowledge of what exactly the resurrection is and who it applies to. Whatever happened in 70 ad, it was NOT the fulfillment of the coming of the Lord, nor the fulfillment of the resurrection at what was referred to as the last trumpet. When Jesus comes on the clouds in glory, the whole world and all its nations and tribes shall see it and know about it. There will be no discussion or debate. It will be common knowledge among mankind. Thus if the resurrection happened already, then firstly, we missed it, and secondly, there would be no debate, as we would all be aware of it. In the resurrection, all who belong to the Lord will be changed and given a new body that is immortal and incorruptible. How else will we live forever? In your suggestion that the resurrection and the day of the Lord are both past, you exclude all who have come to Him since 70 ad, including yourself. Listen and learn from your piers. Whoever your present teacher is, and I suspect I know, is in error and has misled you. Speaking of the tribulation of the Jews, is the recent slaughter of six million less tribulation than when the temple was destroyed? But Jesus spoke of a tribulation such as the whole world has never seen. Far worse has happened since 70 ad, and the worst is yet to come, my friend.

Todays prophecy teachers say ‘the time is at hand’ means far, far away. So when Jesus said:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Or that when Jesus says “I come quickly” several times in the book, he surely meant thousand and thousands of years.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
This is, I hope one knows, a joke because we all know better if we were reading those words in another book besides the bible.


When one sees the word ‘thousand’ in the book of Revelation, it was translated from the Greek word ‘chilioio’ meaning an uncertain amount, in this case it would have to mean ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.

One can also read about the same judgments coming in Leviticus 26, even in the same type of symbolic language, but with much more assurance that God is speaking to the Jews.

There was a man, somewhere back in the 1800s, that started speaking about dispensation. It became apart of the interpretation of the bible that was never based on fact. It only survived because it changed the meanings of the words, like those I pointed out. Because people do not want to believe in the spiritual words like Jesus saying “My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. They no longer read the bible for what it says, but what some man had said it means.

The bible is not addressed to us, it was addressed to the Jew and later to the early church and/or Christian. It is for our benefit, if we read it properly.

If one wants to quote scripture from the Book of Revelation, then explain ‘I come quickly’, and ‘time is at hand’ scripturally or by translation if possible.

If the resurrection has already happened, show me evidence. Something as profound as the resurrection would no doubt be recorded in print and handed down from generation to generation. No my friend the second coming and resurrection hasn't happened yet


Back to topic.... The last day begins with the return of the Lord, which is the second coming-first resurrection, written about in Rev. chapter 20

Todays prophecy teachers say ‘the time is at hand’ means far, far away. So when Jesus said:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Or that when Jesus says “I come quickly” several times in the book, he surely meant thousand and thousands of years.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
This is, I hope one knows, a joke because we all know better if we were reading those words in another book besides the bible.


When one sees the word ‘thousand’ in the book of Revelation, it was translated from the Greek word ‘chilioio’ meaning an uncertain amount, in this case it would have to mean ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.

One can also read about the same judgments coming in Leviticus 26, even in the same type of symbolic language, but with much more assurance that God is speaking to the Jews.

There was a man, somewhere back in the 1800s, that started speaking about dispensation. It became apart of the interpretation of the bible that was never based on fact. It only survived because it changed the meanings of the words, like those I pointed out. Because people do not want to believe in the spiritual words like Jesus saying “My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. They no longer read the bible for what it says, but what some man had said it means.

The bible is not addressed to us, it was addressed to the Jew and later to the early church and/or Christian. It is for our benefit, if we read it properly.

If one wants to quote scripture from the Book of Revelation, then explain ‘I come quickly’, and ‘time is at hand’ scripturally or by translation if possible.

 

[ENOCH2010]

Todays prophecy teachers say ‘the time is at hand’ means far, far away. So when Jesus said:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Or that when Jesus says “I come quickly” several times in the book, he surely meant thousand and thousands of years.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
This is, I hope one knows, a joke because we all know better if we were reading those words in another book besides the bible.


When one sees the word ‘thousand’ in the book of Revelation, it was translated from the Greek word ‘chilioio’ meaning an uncertain amount, in this case it would have to mean ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.

One can also read about the same judgments coming in Leviticus 26, even in the same type of symbolic language, but with much more assurance that God is speaking to the Jews.

There was a man, somewhere back in the 1800s, that started speaking about dispensation. It became apart of the interpretation of the bible that was never based on fact. It only survived because it changed the meanings of the words, like those I pointed out. Because people do not want to believe in the spiritual words like Jesus saying “My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. They no longer read the bible for what it says, but what some man had said it means.

The bible is not addressed to us, it was addressed to the Jew and later to the early church and/or Christian. It is for our benefit, if we read it properly.

If one wants to quote scripture from the Book of Revelation, then explain ‘I come quickly’, and ‘time is at hand’ scripturally or by translation if possible.

Todays prophecy teachers say ‘the time is at hand’ means far, far away. So when Jesus said:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Or that when Jesus says “I come quickly” several times in the book, he surely meant thousand and thousands of years.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
This is, I hope one knows, a joke because we all know better if we were reading those words in another book besides the bible.


When one sees the word ‘thousand’ in the book of Revelation, it was translated from the Greek word ‘chilioio’ meaning an uncertain amount, in this case it would have to mean ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.

One can also read about the same judgments coming in Leviticus 26, even in the same type of symbolic language, but with much more assurance that God is speaking to the Jews.

There was a man, somewhere back in the 1800s, that started speaking about dispensation. It became apart of the interpretation of the bible that was never based on fact. It only survived because it changed the meanings of the words, like those I pointed out. Because people do not want to believe in the spiritual words like Jesus saying “My kingdom is not of this world” John 18:36. They no longer read the bible for what it says, but what some man had said it means.

The bible is not addressed to us, it was addressed to the Jew and later to the early church and/or Christian. It is for our benefit, if we read it properly.

If one wants to quote scripture from the Book of Revelation, then explain ‘I come quickly’, and ‘time is at hand’ scripturally or by translation if possible.

That isn't proof , that is opinion

 

[Rocky Wiley]

If the resurrection has already happened, show me evidence. Something as profound as the resurrection would no doubt be recorded in print and handed down from generation to generation. No my friend the second coming and resurrection hasn't happened yet


Back to topic.... The last day begins with the return of the Lord, which is the second coming-first resurrection, written about in Rev. chapter 20

God has never felt the need to convince non-believers of anything. I will say this, Jesus said it would happen and it did. Believe it or not is no concern of mine either.

 

[veteran]

The resurrection did happen after the tribulation and after the temple was destroyed. That happened in 70 AD. We know that Daniel was speaking to Jews, and we know that Jesus was speaking to Jews when he said 'this generation' would not pass away. 70 AD was still in their generation.

When one reads the 'War of the Jews' by Josephus, then one can see the tribulation that came upon Jews.

Preterist's doctrines that 70 A.D. saw the coming and end of all those things is not from The Bible. It's one of those 'outside' ideas, outside God's Word. There are those who swallow those outside ideas, hook, line and sinker, and those who study to know the difference. The generation Jesus was speaking of in Matt.24 that He said would not pass until they saw all those signs means the very last one, not the one of the Apostle's days.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Preterist's doctrines that 70 A.D. saw the coming and end of all those things is not from The Bible. It's one of those 'outside' ideas, outside God's Word. There are those who swallow those outside ideas, hook, line and sinker, and those who study to know the difference. The generation Jesus was speaking of in Matt.24 that He said would not pass until they saw all those signs means the very last one, not the one of the Apostle's days.

Hopefully I can find what is from the Bible.

Until I began to read the bible with understanding, I thought just like you. That would be what someone else told me. The truth, though, is the fact the scripture only agrees if one understands the meanings of words.
This generation - when Jesus is clearly talking to Jews of that time. To have it mean what you say, one would have to change ‘this’ to ‘that’. Then it would look as if you were right. But I will not do it, but your buddies certainly do.
Mat_11:16 But whereunto shall I liken THIS generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Mat_12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto THIS wicked generation.
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mar_8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth THIS generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto THIS generation.
Mar_8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in THIS adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mar_13:30 Verily I say unto you, that THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Luk_7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of THIS generation? and to what are they like?
Luk_11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luk_11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to THIS generation.
Luk_11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of THIS generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luk_11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Luk_11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of THIS generation;
Luk_11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of THIS generation.
Luk_16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of THIS world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk_17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of THIS generation.
Luk_21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Act_2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from THIS untoward generation.
That generation - someone else's generation: Only found one scripture, but if it had fit the others, it could have been used in the above.
Heb_3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with THAT generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
At hand - means shortly
Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is AT HAND; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mat_26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is AT HAND, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Mat_26:46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is AT HAND that doth betray me.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is AT HAND: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_14:42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is AT HAND.
Luk_21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh AT HAND.
Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh AT HAND.
Joh_2:13 And the Jews' passover was AT HAND, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Joh_7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was AT HAND.
Joh_11:55 And the Jews' passover was nigh AT HAND: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
Joh_19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh AT HAND.
Rom_13:12 The night is far spent, the day is AT HAND: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Php_4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is AT HAND.
2Th_2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is AT HAND.
2Ti_4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is AT HAND.
1Pe_4:7 But the end of all things is AT HAND: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
Rev_1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of THIS prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is AT HAND.
Rev_22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of THIS book: for the time is AT HAND.
Quickly means shortly
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev_3:11 Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev_22:7 Behold, I come QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of THIS book.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come QUICKLY; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev_22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come QUICKLY. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Without changing anything, we have to come to the conclusion that:
Jesus was coming in judgment upon THIS generation.
That his coming was AT HAND.
That he also said he would COME QUICKLY,
Not once was he talking to us. One has to add to or take away from the scriptures to make it say it does.
The person that changes scripture is in danger of losing their salvation. The one who believes that person is unlearned in the English language.

Be blessed

 

[williemac]

Several problems with the above reply (#10). In the first place, the book of revelation contains a warning not to add or take away from the prophecy contained in it. John did not write the whole bible. In fact, the new testament had not yet been compiled into one unit. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about adding to or changing the bible. That warning refers only to the revelation of John.

Be that as it may, we have a problem with the conclusion that 70 ad was the end of all things. The problem is....us. Jesus said to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. In fact, He promised that this gospel would be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations " and then the end will come" (Math.24:14) So which genius is going to convince us that the disciples of that day managed to fulfill that prophecy in less than 70 years?

Furthermore in vs.21, we read..." For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, NOR EVER SHALL BE". O really? What they had in 70 ad was worse than anything we have seen in our lifetime and previous? Two world wars. Millions slaughtered. Famines, pestilence, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, volcanoes, crime that is unparalleled in history, disease that is unparallelled in history.....but they had it worse?

It is easy to sincerely come to wrong conclusions from scripture.. But lets not hastily accuse anyone of changing the bible to the degree that they are in danger of losing their salvation. That is a very, very serious charge. Lighten up!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Several problems with the above reply (#10). In the first place, the book of revelation contains a warning not to add or take away from the prophecy contained in it. John did not write the whole bible. In fact, the new testament had not yet been compiled into one unit. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble about adding to or changing the bible. That warning refers only to the revelation of John.

Be that as it may, we have a problem with the conclusion that 70 ad was the end of all things. The problem is....us. Jesus said to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. In fact, He promised that this gospel would be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations " and then the end will come" (Math.24:14) So which genius is going to convince us that the disciples of that day managed to fulfill that prophecy in less than 70 years?

Furthermore in vs.21, we read..." For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, NOR EVER SHALL BE". O really? What they had in 70 ad was worse than anything we have seen in our lifetime and previous? Two world wars. Millions slaughtered. Famines, pestilence, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, volcanoes, crime that is unparalleled in history, disease that is unparallelled in history.....but they had it worse?

It is easy to sincerely come to wrong conclusions from scripture.. But lets not hastily accuse anyone of changing the bible to the degree that they are in danger of losing their salvation. That is a very, very serious charge. Lighten up!

In order to believe the word of God, one will need to read it correctly.

The bible is not written to us. It is for us to learn about God that we might know him.

To the Jews that were his chosen, the destruction of the temple and the tribulation they went through was terrible beyond anything they had known. Soon afterward they, almost all were scattered through out the nations. The Jews would never be again, as they were before. The Jews that came afterward could not prove their linage, therefore we only know that they took up the religion.

So knowing this, God was telling them, the Jews who were the sons of Abraham that they would never see anything worse than the tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem and, in reality, Israel. One really has to get away from making another generation the one to whom God was speaking.

As far as taking away or adding to the word of God, anywhere in the bible, is an abomination. Think about it. Would God really allow the changing of his word in any book. I don't think so.

The gospel was preached in all the world, according to scripture.
Luk_2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom_10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Col_1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Read with understanding, and

Be blessed

 

[williemac]

In order to believe the word of God, one will need to read it correctly.

The bible is not written to us. It is for us to learn about God that we might know him.

To the Jews that were his chosen, the destruction of the temple and the tribulation they went through was terrible beyond anything they had known. Soon afterward they, almost all were scattered through out the nations. The Jews would never be again, as they were before. The Jews that came afterward could not prove their linage, therefore we only know that they took up the religion.

So knowing this, God was telling them, the Jews who were the sons of Abraham that they would never see anything worse than the tribulation of the destruction of Jerusalem and, in reality, Israel. One really has to get away from making another generation the one to whom God was speaking.

As far as taking away or adding to the word of God, anywhere in the bible, is an abomination. Think about it. Would God really allow the changing of his word in any book. I don't think so.

The gospel was preached in all the world, according to scripture.
Luk_2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom_10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Col_1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Read with understanding, and

Be blessed

There is a difference between "the whole world" and "all nations". In fact, the gospel has been preached since then and many millions have come to Christ since then. Have they all missed the coming of the Lord and the resurrection at the last trumpet? Did the earth see all the signs that Jesus spoke of?

Furthermore, did the falling away occur, and was the man of sin, the lawless one revealed, and did he sit in the temple as God, and was he destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming? (2Thess.2:3-8).

However, the tribulation of the Jews and their scattering was part and parcel of the results of the end of the old covenant and the bringing forth of the new covenant. Their scattering was a part of the general rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. To this day, the Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus as their Christ. This end time prophecy was not written to and spoken to the unbelieving Jews but rather to those who are Christ's by faith. Just by claiming the bible was not written to us, do you think we are going to forget that the promises and blessings do not apply to the unbeliever?

As well, Peter spoke of scoffers that would come and ask "where is the promise of His coming?". Why, if His coming was just around the corner, would Peter remind them that with God, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day? To put a period on his point, Peter gave the reason that the coming had not yet happened. In 2Pet.3:9...he says..." The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance".

Peter assured them that His coming was being delayed for the sake of the lost who are the objects of His desire, whom He obviously has no intention of excluding from the benefits of the coming of Jesus and the resurrection. Otherwise there would be no reason for the delay.

When He comes on the clouds with all His saints, in all His glory, the whole world will be a witness, and there will be no discussion or debate as to whether or not it happened. The fact that we are even debating it is proof that it has not yet occurred. The beat goes on. Scoffers and skeptics are still chirping their disbelief. People are still being won to Jesus.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Good morning williemac,
I’ll try to respond to each of your points. However, unless one understands that the kingdom of God is a spiritual one, these comments will still not satisfy. So, when Jesus says:
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

One will need to have a paradigm shift.
[SIZE=12pt]There is a difference between "the whole world" and "all nations". In fact, the gospel has been preached since then and many mil[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]lions have come to Christ since then. Have they all missed the coming of the Lord and the resurrection at the last trumpet? Did the earth see all the signs that Jesus spoke of? [/SIZE]
The bible uses the word world, I wanted to point out, by scripture, that the world was the one they were living in, and it said that they did preach unto the whole world.
I used the word nations since when we use the word ‘world’ it does not mean the Roman Empire. But the historical fact does speak about the Jews being scattered throughout the world as we know it.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Furthermore, did the falling away occur, and was the man of sin, the lawless one revealed, and did he sit in the temple as God, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and was he destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming? ([/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]2Thess.2:3-8[/SIZE]).
History is where one finds that answer. Read the ‘Wars of the Jews’ by Josephus. I have my opinion, but maybe one should read the book (on the internet in pdf) for themselves.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]However, the tribulation of the Jews and their scattering was part and parcel of the results of the end of the old covenant and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]the bringing forth of the new covenant. Their scattering was a part of the general rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. To this day, the Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus as their Christ. [/SIZE]
That is correct, it was the end of the old covenant.
[SIZE=12pt]This end time prophecy was not written to and spoken to the unbelieving Jews but rather to those who are Christ's by faith. Just[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] by claiming the bible was not written to us, do you think we are going to forget that the promises and blessings do not apply to the unbeliever?[/SIZE]
The Epistles were written to the early churches, because those that had passed away were to be resurrected with the saints of the old testament. Many times they were comforted with these words. Once the resurrection happened and the new covenant was in effect, Christians, when the body passes away, goes straight on to be with Jesus. I have heard many preachers at funerals say the same, and I don’t think they believed bible prophecy either.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As well, Peter spoke of scoffers that would come and ask "where is the promise of His coming?". Why, if His coming was just arou[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]nd the corner, would Peter remind them that with God, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day? To put a period on his point, Peter gave the reason that the coming had not yet happened.[/SIZE]
As I explained in an earlier reply, the English word ‘thousand’ in those verses was used to translate the Greek word ‘chilioi’ which is ‘an unknown’. Since they were waiting for a day that God did not reveal, but had many times said he would return in their generation, the unknown time was ‘shortly’ ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Peter assured them that His coming was being delayed for the sake of the lost who are the objects of His desire, whom He obvious[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]ly has no intention of excluding from the benefits of the coming of Jesus and the resurrection. Otherwise there would be no reason for the delay.[/SIZE]
I don’t recall Peter saying he had been delayed, just that they should continue living for God.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]When He comes on the clouds with all His saints, in all His glory, the whole world will be a witness, and there will be no discu[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]ssion or debate as to whether or not it happened. The fact that we are even debating it is proof that it has not yet occurred. The beat goes on. Scoffers and skeptics are still chirping their disbelief. People are still being won to Jesus.[/SIZE]
Based on what the Apostles knew and taught, all of the Christians, not necessarily the general public, would know that the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was how they would see the coming of Jesus. It was spiritual. Remember Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.
People are still being won to Jesus because we are living in the church age which is the world(age) without end.
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Be blessed

 

[williemac]

Good morning williemac,
I’ll try to respond to each of your points. However, unless one understands that the kingdom of God is a spiritual one, these comments will still not satisfy. So, when Jesus says:
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

One will need to have a paradigm shift.
[SIZE=12pt]There is a difference between "the whole world" and "all nations". In fact, the gospel has been preached since then and many mil[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]lions have come to Christ since then. Have they all missed the coming of the Lord and the resurrection at the last trumpet? Did the earth see all the signs that Jesus spoke of? [/SIZE]
The bible uses the word world, I wanted to point out, by scripture, that the world was the one they were living in, and it said that they did preach unto the whole world.
I used the word nations since when we use the word ‘world’ it does not mean the Roman Empire. But the historical fact does speak about the Jews being scattered throughout the world as we know it.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Furthermore, did the falling away occur, and was the man of sin, the lawless one revealed, and did he sit in the temple as God, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and was he destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' coming? ([/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]2Thess.2:3-8[/SIZE]).
History is where one finds that answer. Read the ‘Wars of the Jews’ by Josephus. I have my opinion, but maybe one should read the book (on the internet in pdf) for themselves.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]However, the tribulation of the Jews and their scattering was part and parcel of the results of the end of the old covenant and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]the bringing forth of the new covenant. Their scattering was a part of the general rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. To this day, the Jewish faith does not recognize Jesus as their Christ. [/SIZE]
That is correct, it was the end of the old covenant.
[SIZE=12pt]This end time prophecy was not written to and spoken to the unbelieving Jews but rather to those who are Christ's by faith. Just[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] by claiming the bible was not written to us, do you think we are going to forget that the promises and blessings do not apply to the unbeliever?[/SIZE]
The Epistles were written to the early churches, because those that had passed away were to be resurrected with the saints of the old testament. Many times they were comforted with these words. Once the resurrection happened and the new covenant was in effect, Christians, when the body passes away, goes straight on to be with Jesus. I have heard many preachers at funerals say the same, and I don’t think they believed bible prophecy either.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]As well, Peter spoke of scoffers that would come and ask "where is the promise of His coming?". Why, if His coming was just arou[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]nd the corner, would Peter remind them that with God, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day? To put a period on his point, Peter gave the reason that the coming had not yet happened.[/SIZE]
As I explained in an earlier reply, the English word ‘thousand’ in those verses was used to translate the Greek word ‘chilioi’ which is ‘an unknown’. Since they were waiting for a day that God did not reveal, but had many times said he would return in their generation, the unknown time was ‘shortly’ ‘quickly’ or ‘at hand’.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Peter assured them that His coming was being delayed for the sake of the lost who are the objects of His desire, whom He obvious[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]ly has no intention of excluding from the benefits of the coming of Jesus and the resurrection. Otherwise there would be no reason for the delay.[/SIZE]
I don’t recall Peter saying he had been delayed, just that they should continue living for God.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]When He comes on the clouds with all His saints, in all His glory, the whole world will be a witness, and there will be no discu[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]ssion or debate as to whether or not it happened. The fact that we are even debating it is proof that it has not yet occurred. The beat goes on. Scoffers and skeptics are still chirping their disbelief. People are still being won to Jesus.[/SIZE]
Based on what the Apostles knew and taught, all of the Christians, not necessarily the general public, would know that the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was how they would see the coming of Jesus. It was spiritual. Remember Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world.
People are still being won to Jesus because we are living in the church age which is the world(age) without end.
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Be blessed

Thank you for you reply. I understand what you are saying, but I have a different understanding of the nature and timing of the resurrection. Paul explained that the resurrection was the giving of a new body. You seemingly are making the same claim, in that you are possibly referring it to the new spiritual body received through the new birth. . However, when Paul wrote 1Cor.15, he was, and many more, already filled with the Spirit...well before 70 AD. This could not have happened had they not already been born again. But if the new birth is the resurrection, it would already have occurred. Paul spoke of it as a future event, and one that will encompass all believers simultaneously.

As for His kingdom being spiritual. With all due respect, this is merely a convenient way to invalidate whatever things one wants to invalidate. Furthermore, it is also convenient to suggest that you know something that others don't, therefore how could they possibly see what you see...It is a but patronizing to say the least. However, Paul said that the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom.14:17). Just because the kingdom is not of this world, doesn't mean it is not seen or experienced in this world. In fact, we are not of this world. But we are in it. But the kingdom lies within us. However, as I said...all this was true well before 70 AD.

In summary: Everything that believers in Christ have in this life and in this day, they had from the day of Pentecost...well before 70 AD.

The only thing that changed in 70 AD is that the Jews were scattered and their temple was destroyed. Nothing changed concerning the church, the body of Christ.

And concerning the coming of the Lord...when they watched Jesus ascend into the clouds, an angel appeared to them and declared " this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will also come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven" . Contrary to what some may suggest, His return to earth will be visible, not invisible. Jesus Himself declared that He will be seen coming on the clouds...by all the nations.

One more thing. Do not confuse "quickly" with "soon" or "shortly" Jesus explained Himself, when He declared that people would be caught in the middle of what they are doing when He comes. It will be a sudden event; one that is not drawn out, and one that will come with no warning. That is appropriately described as "quick"....an hour that they do not expect. (the temple didn't topple that fast)...The point is, be prepared at all times. That doesn't apply to us? It already happened? No need to be ready or to look for it? What a let down! This is horrible news, my friend. But fortunately, scripture does not bear it out. It is not a mystery, being hard to see or understand.. That is not what spiritual means.

 

[veteran]

Hopefully I can find what is from the Bible.

Until I began to read the bible with understanding, I thought just like you. That would be what someone else told me. The truth, though, is the fact the scripture only agrees if one understands the meanings of words.
This generation - when Jesus is clearly talking to Jews of that time. To have it mean what you say, one would have to change ‘this’ to ‘that’. Then it would look as if you were right. But I will not do it, but your buddies certainly do.
Mat_11:16 But whereunto shall I liken THIS generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Mat_12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto THIS wicked generation.
Mat_23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS generation.
Mat_24:34 Verily I say unto you, THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mar_8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth THIS generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto THIS generation.
Mar_8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in THIS adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mar_13:30 Verily I say unto you, that THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Luk_7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of THIS generation? and to what are they like?
Luk_11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luk_11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to THIS generation.
Luk_11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of THIS generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luk_11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with THIS generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Luk_11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of THIS generation;
Luk_11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of THIS generation.
Luk_16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of THIS world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luk_17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of THIS generation.
Luk_21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Act_2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from THIS untoward generation.
That generation - someone else's generation: Only found one scripture, but if it had fit the others, it could have been used in the above.
Heb_3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with THAT generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
At hand - means shortly
Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is AT HAND.
Mat_26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is AT HAND; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mat_26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is AT HAND, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
Mat_26:46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is AT HAND that doth betray me.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is AT HAND: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_14:42 Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is AT HAND.
Luk_21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh AT HAND.
Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh AT HAND.
Joh_2:13 And the Jews' passover was AT HAND, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Joh_7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was AT HAND.
Joh_11:55 And the Jews' passover was nigh AT HAND: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
Joh_19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh AT HAND.
Rom_13:12 The night is far spent, the day is AT HAND: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Php_4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is AT HAND.
2Th_2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is AT HAND.
2Ti_4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is AT HAND.
1Pe_4:7 But the end of all things is AT HAND: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
Rev_1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of THIS prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is AT HAND.
Rev_22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of THIS book: for the time is AT HAND.
Quickly means shortly
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev_3:11 Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev_22:7 Behold, I come QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of THIS book.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come QUICKLY; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev_22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come QUICKLY. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Without changing anything, we have to come to the conclusion that:
Jesus was coming in judgment upon THIS generation.
That his coming was AT HAND.
That he also said he would COME QUICKLY,
Not once was he talking to us. One has to add to or take away from the scriptures to make it say it does.
The person that changes scripture is in danger of losing their salvation. The one who believes that person is unlearned in the English language.

Be blessed

No offense Rocky, but I don't think you've ever thought like me. So I think we can forget trying that little ploy with aiming to understand what Christ said on this matter.

Matt 24:1-3
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

The signs which our Lord Jesus gave them right after their question is about the time of the very end of this present world. They happen to also be the signs in the 6 Seals of Revelation 6. Our Lord Jesus then covers those signs of the end, with the last one being about His coming and the gathering of His saints to Him, a sign which has yet to occur today.

Then He said this about those signs...

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
(KJV)

The generation our Lord Jesus was referring to there is about the generation that would what? The one that would "see all these things", i.e., ALL of those signs He gave previously in that Matt.24 chapter.

That is the chapter's context about which generation He was speaking of. And He even mentioned along with that generation context about heaven and earth passing away, and no one knowing the day or hour except The Father.

And the fact that His disciples asked Him about the sign of His coming at the very first of this chapter, and He showed them when here, should have been a strong enough clue that He and they were talking about events for the very end of this world.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Thank you for you reply. I understand what you are saying, but I have a different understanding of the nature and timing of the resurrection. Paul explained that the resurrection was the giving of a new body. You seemingly are making the same claim, in that you are possibly referring it to the new spiritual body received through the new birth. . However, when Paul wrote 1Cor.15, he was, and many more, already filled with the Spirit...well before 70 AD. This could not have happened had they not already been born again. But if the new birth is the resurrection, it would already have occurred. Paul spoke of it as a future event, and one that will encompass all believers simultaneously.

As for His kingdom being spiritual. With all due respect, this is merely a convenient way to invalidate whatever things one wants to invalidate. Furthermore, it is also convenient to suggest that you know something that others don't, therefore how could they possibly see what you see...It is a but patronizing to say the least. However, Paul said that the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom.14:17). Just because the kingdom is not of this world, doesn't mean it is not seen or experienced in this world. In fact, we are not of this world. But we are in it. But the kingdom lies within us. However, as I said...all this was true well before 70 AD.

In summary: Everything that believers in Christ have in this life and in this day, they had from the day of Pentecost...well before 70 AD.

The only thing that changed in 70 AD is that the Jews were scattered and their temple was destroyed. Nothing changed concerning the church, the body of Christ.

And concerning the coming of the Lord...when they watched Jesus ascend into the clouds, an angel appeared to them and declared " this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will also come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven" . Contrary to what some may suggest, His return to earth will be visible, not invisible. Jesus Himself declared that He will be seen coming on the clouds...by all the nations.

One more thing. Do not confuse "quickly" with "soon" or "shortly" Jesus explained Himself, when He declared that people would be caught in the middle of what they are doing when He comes. It will be a sudden event; one that is not drawn out, and one that will come with no warning. That is appropriately described as "quick"....an hour that they do not expect. (the temple didn't topple that fast)...The point is, be prepared at all times. That doesn't apply to us? It already happened? No need to be ready or to look for it? What a let down! This is horrible news, my friend. But fortunately, scripture does not bear it out. It is not a mystery, being hard to see or understand.. That is not what spiritual means.

[SIZE=12pt] williemac,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Thank you for you reply. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](yours in black)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I understand what you are saying, but I have a different understanding of the nature and timing of the [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]resurrection. Paul explained that the resurrection was the giving of a new body. You seemingly are making the same claim, in that you are possibly referring it to the new spiritual body received through the new birth. . However, when Paul wrote 1Cor.15, he was, and many more, already filled with the Spirit...well before 70 AD. This could not have happened had they not already been born again. But if the new birth is the resurrection, it would already have occurred. Paul spoke of it as a future event, and one that will encompass all believers simultaneously.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](my response in blue)[/SIZE]
We are making the same claim, but I will have to take another look at more scripture to get understanding of the validity of statements I have made about the time of the fulness of the church.

[SIZE=12pt]As for His kingdom being spiritual. With all due respect, this is merely a convenient way to invalidate whatever things one want[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]s to invalidate. Furthermore, it is also convenient to suggest that you know something that others don't, therefore how could they possibly see what you see...It is a but patronizing to say the least. [/SIZE]
I am not trying to say I know more than others, to believe as I do, one has to only look at scripture in a different way. Most people look at scripture from a natural point of view. By looking at the spiritual point, one interprets scriptures differently. The scriptures are the same but the understanding is different. What I try to do is give the other point of view. I believe it makes more sense, and if it makes sense it would most likely be right. The futurist has no scripture to paint their picture, so they change the meaning of words to give understanding. I believe that they are wrong to do so.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]However, Paul said that the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit ([/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Rom.14:17[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]). Just because the kingdom is not of this world, doesn't mean it is not seen or experienced in this world. In fact, we [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]are not of this world. But we are in it. But the kingdom lies within us. However, as I said...all this was true well before 70 A[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]D.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In summary: Everything that believers in Christ have in this life and in this day, they had from the day of Pentecost...well bef[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]ore 70 AD.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again, you have a point here and I will continue to study it, basically it appears to be about the scripture of the second death having no effect.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I appreciate you,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Be blessed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

 

[Rocky Wiley]

In summary: Everything that believers in Christ have in this life and in this day, they had from the day of Pentecost...well before 70 AD.

williemac,

Checked out the resurrection of the early Christians and this is what I will stand on.

Study of the resurrection of the Christians before the return of Jesus, produced the following.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The first resurrection were the Christians and Apostles of the early churches. Many of them had been killed for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God. They would reign with Jesus for a thousand years (the unknow time).

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The second resurrection was of the dead that lived during the age of law, seeing that they were being judged according to their works. This happened at the last day, which included the destruction of Jerusalem.

We, Christians today are resurrected just as those early Christians, as our life here on earth ends, we go on to be with the Lord.

There is more info on the resurrection on the last day here.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19417-the-abomination-of-desolation-spoken-of-by-daniel-the-prophet/

 

[John 8:32]

The resurrection did happen after the tribulation and after the temple was destroyed. That happened in 70 AD. We know that Daniel was speaking to Jews, and we know that Jesus was speaking to Jews when he said 'this generation' would not pass away. 70 AD was still in their generation.

When one reads the 'War of the Jews' by Josephus, then one can see the tribulation that came upon Jews.

Mat 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

And what weapon did the Romans have that would erase life from this planet?

williemac,

Checked out the resurrection of the early Christians and this is what I will stand on.

Study of the resurrection of the Christians before the return of Jesus, produced the following.[/size]
[/size]
Rev 20:4[/size] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [/size]I saw[/size] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [/size]his[/size] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [/size]
Rev 20:5[/size] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [/size]is[/size] the first resurrection. [/size]
The first resurrection were the Christians and Apostles of the early churches. Many of them had been killed for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God. They would reign with Jesus for a thousand years (the unknow time).[/size]
[/size]
Rev 20:12[/size] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [/size]the book[/size] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. [/size]
Rev 20:13[/size] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [/size]
Rev 20:14[/size] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [/size]
Rev 20:15[/size] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. [/size]
The second resurrection was of the dead that lived during the age of law, seeing that they were being judged according to their works. This happened at the last day, which included the destruction of Jerusalem.[/size]

We, Christians today are resurrected just as those early Christians, as our life here on earth ends, we go on to be with the Lord.[/size]
[/size]
There is more info on the resurrection on the last day here.[/size]

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19417-the-abomination-of-desolation-spoken-of-by-daniel-the-prophet/

Why didn't you highlight this part?

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.