When will Jesus Return?

[jeffweeder]

Wanted to be polite. Serioisly, scripture does not conflict with my view. Amillennials conflict with all Premillennial views - there are a few of you in this thread.

Just a heads up Ron, but Jesus is our inspiration, as I pointed out in my first post to you.
He only leaves heaven to restore all things, and Jesus himself clearly points this out.


Act 3
17 “Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance [not fully aware of what you were doing], just as your rulers did also. 18 And so God has fulfilled what He foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ (Messiah, Anointed) would suffer.

19 So repent [change your inner self—your old way of thinking, regret past sins] and return [to God—seek His purpose for your life], so that your sins may be wiped away [blotted out, completely erased], so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord [restoring you like a cool wind on a hot day];

20 and that He may send [to you] Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.


After much patience and grace and times of refreshing, Jesus will come again to restore all things as his reward is with him.

SEE Rev 22,

12 “Behold, I (Jesus) am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds (earthly works, faithfulness). 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End [the Eternal One].”

14 Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) are those who wash their robes [in the blood of Christ by believing and trusting in Him—the righteous who do His commandments], so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.



Those on his right will inherit a totally restored and pristine environment as it was at the foundation of the world and enter the gates of the NJ....and those found at his left will suffer the final judgment of the LOF. Death will be thrown into the lof confirming that this is indeed the restoration of all things from the foundation of the world.

Matt 25

The Judgment​

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.


41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);


That is what happens when Jesus finally leaves heaven a second time to receive us to himself.

 

[jeffweeder]

Didn't ask for help, nor praise. Just sharing.

Yes, and I did share and you decided not to engage what I was really saying.

Never mind what Jesus has actually said about his coming.

 

[Truth7t7]

So to you, all the judgments in Revelation occur on one day? Obviously, He appears on a particular day, but there are so many things tied to that day,
The wrath and destruction are spread out for 3 1/2 years and then after the MK more judgment. 1 Thes. 5:1-2 clearly equates "times and seasons" with the "day of the Lord".

I see it as His rule over the nations of the world beginning as seen in Rev. 11:15. Not only His judgment but the beginning of His Kingdom on earth for 1000 years and forever.
Scholars agree ... do a search.
But hey, you can believe what you want. Don't care to go back and forth.

You espouse the same false claims

The day of the Lord is the last day, as 2 Peter 3:10-13 shows, the earth will be dissolved by fire (The End)

Your continued false claims that the day of the Lord consist of years is laughable

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

whom heaven must keep until the time for the restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time

Love all those scriptures, it is just sad that you omit something you cannot see within them. Restoration means to take something that has been damaged and repair it, make it new again - fix it. Therefore the earth _ in the Great Tribulation _ is not destroyed when Jesus comes. Just the sinners. As we read through tue Seals, Trumpets and Bowls we see devastation. Earthquake or several leveling mountains, buildings 1/3 of the planet on fire, 1/3 of the sea creature dead, lots devastation - but not total destruction. That happens after the 1000 years of Jesus reign on His throne. (2 Peter 3:10)

Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds

Rev. 11:18. rewards

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city

Rev. 7:9 Multitude taken out of the GT

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory

Yes, He will sit on His throne in Jerusalem and all the nations on the First restored Earth will worship and pay homage to Him every year (sun, moon and stars still around).

Rather than to go through all your posts, in denial of and refuting most of Revelation 6-20 and picking and choosing the verses you take literally, I'll post a previous thread for you to look over.

The Millennial Kingdom

It is important to mention Covenants briefly. Covenants need to be fulfilled, specifically to Israel, to Jesus, to nations and creation during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign. The Palestinian Covenant, also called the Land Covenant (Deuteronomy 30:1-10) Abraham did go to the Promised Land, he did have...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You espouse the same false claims

The day of the Lord is the last day, as 2 Peter 3:10-13 shows, the earth will be dissolved by fire (The End)

Your continued false claims that the day of the Lord consist of years is laughable

You distort and are in denial of the literal coming events in Rev. 6-20, all Amillennialists do. But I am not laughing about it, just don't care to hear about it anymore.
Sorry, I did not intend this thread to be Premillenials vs Amillennials.

 

[Truth7t7]

There should a special section for Amillennials.
I got an idea, no offense, it's just that there is this wall, a disconnect between us concerning eschatology. God Bless you. I will see you in the Millennial Kingdom and we will have a laugh about it.

Preference: Premillennials only!

No such thing as a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's a man made fabricated fairy tale found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) no Millennial Kingdom following, it's that simple

Ron denies the fact that Jesus is revealed in fire at his return, and it's not going to be a little camp fire at a Boy scout cook out

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

You distort and are in denial of the literal coming events in Rev. 6-20, all Amillennialists do. But I am not laughing about it, just don't care to hear about it anymore.
Sorry, I did not intend this thread to be Premillenials vs Amillennials.

It's not Premill vs Ahmill, it's Truth vs False

There isn't a Millennial Kingdom on this earth found in scripture, it's a fabricated man made fairy tale

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) as post #46 above clearly shows, something Ron denies, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, a star falls to earth ( which in this case is an angel who has the keys to the bottomless pit and opens it up and out of it comes demons. Out of what? The earth.

You just don't get it. How can figurative locusts literally come out of a literal place within the earth? The whole description is a figurative way of describing angels being given permission to go and torment certain people.

This is not some spiritual realm outside of physical reality.

The spiritual realm exists outside and around the earth, not within the earth. You are believing in wive's tales.

Smoke comes out of the earth like a furnace ( as in a volcano). Capisce?

LOL. You are very ignorant. So, you acknowledge that the locusts are symbolic but somehow the smoke is literal? Goodness sakes...

These demons, including Apollyon are spiritual beings yet locked up in chains in a deep dark cavern in the center of the earth. How is this possible? By God's power.

Where does scripture teach this?

>>But if I were to guess I would say this: Since angels have the ability to appear in physical form and back to spiritual form, God has restricted these fallen angels to their physical form, until He will release them when the trumpets blow.

All you do is speculate. You have nothing concrete to back up your beliefs. Those fallen angels would like nothing better than for people to believe that they are literally, physically locked up somewhere. No, they are not. When it talks about them being loosed it's not saying they were previously completely incapacitated. They were only prevented from doing the things it describes them as doing after they are loosed.

Science has studied the volcanic history of the Great Syrian/ Africa Rift a series of connecting faults that stretch 3700 miles from northern Syria, through Lebanon, the Jordan River Valley throught he Sea of Gallilee, then down to the Dead Sea and continuing south to the Red Sea and beyond.
Other names of the Dead Sea: "The Salt Sea, Sea of Aravah, Lake of Asphalt, Eastern Sea, The Sea of Sodom, The Sea of Lot, The Devil's Sea, The Sea of Zoar and The Stinking Sea." Encyclopedia Judaica, 2nd Edition, Volume Five, 2007

Scripture is spiritually discerned and we also have historically and scientific evidence to support it. Archeological finds for centuries have confirmed people, places, events - the truth in scripture, not that we start with that. So when the Bible speaks of an event such as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah with fire, science later comes along and confirms that the area had a history of volcanic activity - what's wrong with that?

Did I say otherwise? The problem is that you are not using spiritual discernment when you assume any given verse or passage has to be literal unless it slaps you in the face and says otherwise. That is a biased, non-spiritual approach to interpreting scripture.

I have been a born again Christian for 32 years. I have a relationship with God who lives in me and guides me. I discern what I discern and sometimes look outside scripture.

I'm not saying you're not. What I'm saying is that your approach to intepreting scripture is terrible because it's biased towards assuming everything is literal unless it is extremely obviously not literal. No spiritual discernment is necessary with your approach to interpreting scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There should a special section for Amillennials.

Nonsense. You are acting like a baby here who can't handle having his views being challenged. This thread is about when Jesus will return. Amils believe that Jesus will return in the future just like you do, so we should be able to discuss that as well.

I got an idea, no offense, it's just that there is this wall, a disconnect between us concerning eschatology. God Bless you. I will see you in the Millennial Kingdom and we will have a laugh about it.

We're seeing you there now. Do you deny being in Christ's kingdom now? Does the following passage not apply to you?

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Helen]

Your a Greek Scholar and Translator now?

Where did you obtain your PHD in the Greek, Cambridge, Oxford, Yale, Harvard?

Well you seem well equipped to be able to tell people that they are wrong…
So, if you are so sure that they are wrong, you must have the ability to tell us just “How it is!”

I wait with bated breath for ‘your’ pearls of great wisdom.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well you seem well equipped to be able to tell people that they are wrong…
So, if you are so sure that they are wrong, you must have the ability to tell us just “How it is!”

I wait with bated breath for ‘your’ pearls of great wisdom.

Helen posters writings are "Opinions"

Examples: You are correct, you are wrong, this is false, this is true, etc

In a Christian forum God's words dictate truth, and it's "Opinions" on God's words that are presented "Opinions"

Example: In my "Opinion" the scripture below teaches that the existing heavens and earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire, any poster that would disagree with this would be wrong/false in my "Opinion"

Jesus Is The Lord

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Helen]

Helen posters writings are "Opinions"

Examples: You are correct, you are wrong, this is false, this is true, etc

In a Christian forum God's words dictate truth, and it's "Opinions" on God's words that are presented "Opinions"

Example: In my "Opinion" the scripture below teaches that the existing heavens and earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire, any poster that would disagree with this would be wrong/false in my "Opinion"

Jesus Is The Lord

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I know that , I’ve been on forums for decades …( this one included) ..it was the arrogant way that you spoke to your brothers that hit me…To tell others that they are wrong , is an ‘obvious’ that you must believe that you are right.
….because we can’t tell if something IS wrong , unless we are familiar with what is the right.

So often it is the spiritual ‘eyesight’ , or lack of , that causes a person to see or miss , what God is actually saying.

 

[VCO]

Approximately 7 years of the Rapture.

When will the Rapture occur?

No man knows the Day or the Hour.

 

[Truth7t7]

I know that , I’ve been on forums for decades …( this one included) ..it was the arrogant way that you spoke to your brothers that hit me…To tell others that they are wrong , is an ‘obvious’ that you must believe that you are right.

That is your "Opinion" and I disagree, you appear to be a moderator, will you silence opposing "Opinions" that disagree with yours, time will tell?

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Helen]

That is your "Opinion" and I disagree, you appear to be a moderator, will you silence opposing "Opinions" that disagree with yours, time will tell?

Jesus Is The Lord

No my friend …it is ‘attitude ‘ which often shouts louder than word.

 

[VCO]

That is your "Opinion" and I disagree, you appear to be a moderator, will you silence opposing "Opinions" that disagree with yours, time will tell?

Jesus Is The Lord

No, I am just a very old Christian, 74 to be exact. I have had 9 strokes, but the Lord had spared me for some reason.

Do you know how come I am so Absolutely Convinced, he will call us out before Tribulation Starts ? ? ?

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

He Told that to people alive in His day, and HE MEANT IT.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 3:10 (NJB)
10 Because you have kept my commandment to persevere, I will keep you safe in the time of trial which is coming for the whole world, to put the people of the world to the test.

The only safe Place is OFF THIS EARTH, at the Wedding of the LAMB.

Revelation 6:16-17 (ESV)
16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him
who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

Elders in Jewish Life is a Political Position, ELDERS in the Church, is a religious Position.

Revelation 4:1-4 (ESV)
1 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” (That same Door will be standing open in heaven to receive us Saints of the Church.)
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.
3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald.
4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.

Our Elders are their and We Go in a GROUP, to Heaven.

 

[Truth7t7]

No my friend …it is ‘attitude ‘ which often shouts louder than word.

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[VCO]

Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 7:20-23 (ESV)
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

When did you Surrender to HIM as LORD, and did you Mean IT ? ? ?

Or are you still lord of your own life ? ? ?

 

[Truth7t7]

No, I am just a very old Christian, 74 to be exact. I have had 9 strokes, but the Lord had spared me for some reason.

Do you know how come I am so Absolutely Convinced, he will call us out before Tribulation Starts ? ? ?

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

He Told that to people alive in His day, and HE MEANT IT.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 3:10 (NJB)
10 Because you have kept my commandment to persevere, I will keep you safe in the time of trial which is coming for the whole world, to put the people of the world to the test.

The only safe Place is OFF THIS EARTH, at the Wedding of the LAMB.

Revelation 6:16-17 (ESV)
16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him
who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

Elders in Jewish Life is a Political Position, ELDERS in the Church, is a religious Position.

Revelation 4:1-4 (ESV)
1 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” (That same Door will be standing open in heaven to receive us Saints of the Church.)
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.
3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald.
4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.

Our Elders are their and We Go in a GROUP, to Heaven.

Sorry to hear of your many strokes, hope your health is better

There's no scripture to support a pre-trib rapture, the Bible teaches Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 7:20-23 (ESV)
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

When did you Surrender to HIM as LORD, and did you Mean IT ? ? ?

Or are you still lord of your own life ? ? ?

I'm a Spirit filled Christian of 44 years

Jesus Is My Lord And Savior

Ephesians 1:13-14KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.