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VCO

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Sorry to hear of your many strokes, hope your health is better

There's no scripture to support a pre-trib rapture, the Bible teaches Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

They finally got me on the right medicine about 2 years ago, and it stopped the Strokes.

You are Wrong about the Rapture not being in the Bible. It comes from the Latin word Rapturo, we just borrowed it. Here's the word in the Bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (HCSB)
13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope.
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up <Greek: 726 harpazō> <Latin: Rapturo or Raptura>
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It is CAUGHT UP in English,

Here is why we chose RAPTURO or RAPTURA for the meaning of that word was:
  1. about to snatch, about to grab, about to carry off

rapturo​

rapturo (Latin)

Participle​

raptūrō
  1. Inflection of raptūrus (dative masculine singular)
  2. Inflection of raptūrus (dative neuter singular)
  3. Inflection of raptūrus (ablative masculine singular)
  4. Inflection of raptūrus (ablative neuter singular)


This is the meaning of raptūrus:

rapturus (Latin)​

Origin & history​

Future active participle of rapiō ("snatch, carry off").

Participle​

raptūrus (masc.) (fem. raptūra, neut. raptūrum)
  1. about to snatch, about to grab, about to carry off

Quote, Rate & Share​

Cite this page:
"rapturo" – WordSense Online Dictionary (23rd April, 2023) URL: https://www.wordsense.eu/rapturo/
 
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Truth7t7

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The finally got me on the right medicine about 2 years ago, and it stopped the Strokes.

You are Wrong about the Rapture not being in the Bible. I comes from the Latin word Rapturo, we just borrowed it. Here's the word in the Bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (HCSB)
13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope.
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up <Greek 726 harpazō> <Latin Rapturo or Raptura>
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

It is CAUGHT UP in English,

Here is why we chose RAPTURO or RAPTURA for the meaning of that word was:
  1. about to snatch, about to grab, about to carry off

rapturo​

rapturo (Latin)

Participle​

raptūrō
  1. Inflection of raptūrus (dative masculine singular)
  2. Inflection of raptūrus (dative neuter singular)
  3. Inflection of raptūrus (ablative masculine singular)
  4. Inflection of raptūrus (ablative neuter singular)


This is the meaning of raptūrus:

rapturus (Latin)​

Origin & history​

Future active participle of rapiō ("snatch, carry off").

Participle​

raptūrus (masc.) (fem. raptūra, neut. raptūrum)
  1. about to snatch, about to grab, about to carry off

Quote, Rate & Share​

Cite this page:
"rapturo" – WordSense Online Dictionary (23rd April, 2023) URL: https://www.wordsense.eu/rapturo/
Glad to hear your doing better!

I don't deny a "Catching Up/Rapture", I deny a "Pre-Trib Catching Up/Rapture"

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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VCO

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Glad to hear your doing better!

I don't deny a "Catching Up/Rapture", I deny a "Pre-Trib Catching Up/Rapture"

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The RAPTURE Happen VERY QUICKLY, so fast it is called in the Twinkling of the Eye.

The SECOND COMING HAPPEN VERY SLOWLY, time enough for the Worlds Armies to gather in ISRAEL trying to STOP HIM FROM COMING BACK.

SEE YOU, we will be GONE, before we can say Good Bye.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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When will Jesus return ?
When will Salvation return ?

When one is Truly Saved ! Christ has come to you ? then you are an Israel ! Servant of God ! Not of this world, that Jesus pointed out that is full of deceptions and delusions ! But of the Kingdom of God !
Now the Wolves are set to devour ? but in the end of this world the wolves do not exist in the second coming Kingdom of God. for all will be Saved, because the deceptions and delusions will be burnt up.
 

Truth7t7

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The RAPTURE Happen VERY QUICKLY, so fast it is called in the Twinkling of the Eye.

The SECOND COMING HAPPEN VERY SLOWLY, time enough for the Worlds Armies to gather in ISRAEL trying to STOP HIM FROM COMING BACK.

SEE YOU, we will be GONE, before we can say Good Bye.
I disagree, Jesus will return visibly and "Quickly" as a woman giving birth, it will be in the final hour of earth's temptation, not a week, month, or year, as you suggest "Slowly"

It will be in (The Day Of The Lord) The Last Day

Jesus Is The Lord
 

VCO

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I disagree, Jesus will return visibly and "Quickly" as a woman giving birth, it will be in the final hour of earth's temptation, not a week, month, or year, as you suggest "Slowly"

It will be in (The Day Of The Lord) The Last Day

Jesus Is The Lord

Better read Zechariah the entire Chapter 14.

Zechariah 14:5 (HCSB)
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him. <--That us, we have been there for 7 years, for the Wedding of the Lamb primarily and to fulfill this Prophesy.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

AND THIS VERSE:

Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

That tells me that we HAVE TO BE OFF THE EARTH.
 

ewq1938

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AND THIS VERSE:

Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.


and this verse:

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
 

Truth7t7

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Better read Zechariah the entire Chapter 14.

Zechariah 14:5 (HCSB)
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him. <--That us, we have been there for 7 years, for the Wedding of the Lamb primarily and to fulfill this Prophesy.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

AND THIS VERSE:

Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

That tells me that we HAVE TO BE OFF THE EARTH.

(Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom)​


Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which
is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee
to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day,
that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and
from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And
men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
 

Truth7t7

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Better read Zechariah the entire Chapter 14.

Zechariah 14:5 (HCSB)
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him. <--That us, we have been there for 7 years, for the Wedding of the Lamb primarily and to fulfill this Prophesy.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

AND THIS VERSE:

Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

That tells me that we HAVE TO BE OFF THE EARTH.
Not one word you have posted even hints at a "Pre-Trib" Rapture
 

Helen

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@VCO

You made me laugh , I read your post saying that you were “Very Old “ at 74 ( or was it 73 I forget )

All I can say is - “ Oh to be 74 again! “

If you are ‘very old’ , what on earth does that make me!! Haha! I’m into my eighties …and many more on this Forum are too…you are still a young chicken ….be blessed . joy:
 
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Helen

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So you believe that we will all be zapped out of here! Dream on!
For us who don’t , I’d rather be in our shoes than yours …if we don’t believe as you do , we have nothing to lose . If you are wrong , you will have to face things that you don’t expect.

Thats why He says - “I will be with him IN trouble …”
“ I will be with thee …”
He has made us strong and gives strength to our arm.

He doesn’t pull the glorious church out of it….but has made us ambassadors of Christ . He is a God of Victory therefore His Church will stand , and not be zapped out as soon as trouble starts .

just my two cents …
 

VCO

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@VCO

So you believe that we will all be zapped out of here! Dream on!
For us who don’t , I’d rather be in our shoes than yours …if we don’t believe as you do , we have nothing to lose . If you are wrong , you will have to face things that you don’t expect.

Thats why He says - “I will be with him IN trouble …”
“ I will be with thee …”
He has made us strong and gives strength to our arm.

He doesn’t pull the glorious church out of it….but has made us ambassadors of Christ . He is a God of Victory therefore His Church will stand , and not be zapped out as soon as trouble starts .

just my two cents …
1682379943295.png
He is Following a Jewish Wedding to the TEE. Every Step of the Way, right down to the Where HE builds a New Dwelling Place for HIS FATHER's House (Heaven) in HIS Father's House. HE has Chosen the person in HIS wedding Party to Blow the Shofar, and go on ahead, to Call Us out of our old Dwelling Place. HE even says we will RETURN WITH HIM to earth, just like a JEW returns to the old dwelling place of the Bride, to repeat the Wedding Vows to those of the Bride's Family in a second Wedding Supper that could not make it to the Wedding in the Father's House. Almost every Evangelical Christian believes this with our whole heart, and already has the INVITE to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB in his or her HEART. You really need to study the steps for a Jewish Wedding, which lasts for a whole week.
The 70th Week of Daniel.

Zechariah 14:5 (HCSB)
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come (Second Coming) and all the holy ones with Him.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 3:10 (ESV)
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world,
to try those who dwell on the earth. <--

That tells me that we HAVE TO BE OFF THE EARTH.
 

VCO

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@VCO

You made me laugh , I read your post saying that you were “Very Old “ at 74 ( or was it 73 I forget )

All I can say is - “ Oh to be 74 again! “

If you are ‘very old’ , what on earth does that make me!! Haha! I’m into my eighties …and many more on this Forum are too…you are still a young chicken ….be blessed . joy:


I have a family history, were males young. My Dad died when he was 72, my granddad died with he was 62, my cousin died when he was 54, etc., etc. I am the oldest male in my family right now. I have had 9 strokes, two were major, 7 were mini strokes, and a Pace Maker was put in my chest a year and a half ago. Heart Attacks run in my family, with that pace maker, I feel I am living on borrowed time. Maybe now you can understand.
 

Helen

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I have a family history, were males young. My Dad died when he was 72, my granddad died with he was 62, my cousin died when he was 54, etc., etc. I am the oldest male in my family right now. I have had 9 strokes, two were major, 7 were mini strokes, and a Pace Maker was put in my chest a year and a half ago. Heart Attacks run in my family, with that pace maker, I feel I am living on borrowed time. Maybe now you can understand.
Ouch! So you all have ‘old’ bodies , but not old in years …
I will pray seriously that “the Buck stops here “….and that with you, that. ” dying young and sick “ curse is broken from over you ….and ends . :pray::pray::pray:
 

VCO

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Gnashing of teeth is gritting your teeth in anger and agony as someone suffering in pain yet still filled with hate and anger for their loss.

There will be a lot of Gnashing of Teeth after the sceptics, and mockers find out Pretrib was Right On.

Got a question. Is your last Name called Bruno, like in Bruno, Nebraska ? Do you know what famous character the Town was named after?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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There will be a lot of Gnashing of Teeth after the sceptics, and mockers find out Pretrib was Right On.

Got a question. Is your last Name called Bruno, like in Bruno, Nebraska ? Do you know what famous character the Town was named after?
Bruno is my last name. 2nd generation Italian on father's side. His parents were from Calabria, Italy. Bruno actually means dark, brown as southern Italians typically are. I think my Dad did an brief ancestry that went back a few hundreds years. I wasn't that interested too much. He took pride in the Italian race. I'm half and the other half us mixed with Slovak, Russian, a little Jewish even.
There was a priest in the Bruno ancesters, but likely every other occupation too ... artists, musicians for sure, since my Dad was a great Sax player and I was a musician as well. My Dad had seven sisters, no brothers and I have one daughter, so the Bruno line as far as I know stopped with me; but maybe that was only one branch? My grandfather could have left brothers and cousins in Italy so likely all Brunos came from same family - don't know?
So who was Bruno, Nebraska names after? There is also a San Bruno in California.
 

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Many views of Jesus' Second Coming are floating around out there. Which one is true?
Let's examine the events that coinside with His return.
I think one of the key signs is Matthew 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."
Wars and rumors of wars, pestilence and famine
all lead up to this moment. They are the prerequisite events, the "Beginning of Sorrows", mentioned also in Matthew 24.
I agree these are the sorrows, but I do think people overemphasize their importance overall. Basically Jesus only mentions these things in passing, imho, in order to reaffirm what he just told his disciples in vs. 6, the END is by & by or way down the road, then he uses verses 7 & 8 to emphasize, way, way, way on down the road, after many wars, much pestilence etc. etc. becomes vastly more frequent, you see, the warnings are nit about the end per se, its Jesus trying to make sure his disciples understand the 67-70 AD War was not him returning again, those were the fake christs put forth by the Pharisees etc. which fulfilled John 5:43. So, Jesus does this to make sure they understand that 70 AD is not him returning. Then in Matthew 24:9-14 we see Jesus gives them the 100 percent understanding of what brings the very end or the 70th week. First he tells the Disciples they will all die save John of course, as Martyrs, and thus nit at the hands of [Christian] false prophets, but at the hands of the Oracles of the day, who served the false gods of Jupiter, Zeus etc. etc. etc. Thus Jesus tells them they must ENDURE [until the end of their lives] or in other words do not renounce me or betray me as Judas did. Then he tells them in vs. 14 that only when the Gospel goes unto all the world will he come for the Church or the 70th week END COMES.

TOO LONG, but as I read through the thread I was at how many do not understand the 70th week end.

In particular, the war in the Middle East is key. Ten nations attack Israel. The result is Jesus returns and destroys them. So this war must precede His return.
Well, it must precede his Second Coming, not the Pre Trib Rapture. Also, the 10 is simply a way to say COMPLETION, 10 = Completion, so the 10 is the E.U. completely reunited. Dan. 8:9 tells us he travels from the Northwest Corridor.

A great earthquake. Likey a worldwide quake preceeds and levels everything.
* Is the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 the same quake in Revelation 8:5, 11:13,19 &16:18? Are we just lookong at different vantages points on time? This could be so if the trumpets and bowls were released rapidly. There could be separate quakes, some regional, then on Rev.16:18, the biggest? Zechariah 14:2-4 describes this very same quake. Ezekiel 38:19 describes either a regional quake or the great quake, in His wrath.

"And I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place." Rev. 6:12-14
"Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder and sounds, and flashes of lightning and an earthquake." Rev. 8:5

"And at that time there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Rev. 11:13
"And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since mankind came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. REV. 16:18
I will show you why Rev. 6 and 8 are the same Earthquake, but Rev. 11 and 16 are not, but Rev. 11 and 16 are the same, so its two different Earthquakes. Look at the timing tell.

Remember me? I say the Seals are PROPHETIC in nature and Jesus is only FORETELLING what will happen when the Judgment Trumps are unsealed !!

So, Rev. 6:12-14 simply foretells what Rev. 8:5 brings. The Asteroid will indeed cause a GREAT SHAKING as it makes impact, no doubt. Now lets look at why Rev. 11 and 16 CAN NOT be the same "Earthquake". Rev. 8 is the First Four Trumpet Judgments right?

Right after Rev. 11:13 talks about an EARTHQUAKE we see it has to happen at the 2nd Woe. Thus much later than the Rev. 8:5 vs. which is really just all four Trumps, they are one asteroid event.

Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Since Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses chapter, after they die we do not get many details at all, just that the 2nd woe passes and the 3rd woe cones quickly. As per Rev. 16:18-19 that Earthquake is Jesus landing in Jerusalem. The one spoken of in Rev. 11 is the same one, it comes with the 3rd Woe, the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials.

This war, likely nuclear, creates so much smoke in the sky that it blocks out the sun, moon and stars - (1/3 of the light according to Revelation 8:12 which is a result of Revelation 8:7, when 1/3 of the planet that is set on fire). Fire and hail raining down from heaven, could be symbolic for missiles or a volcanic eruption ( which there will be since the earth is split open in that area causing a fissure deep in the earth that reaches the Abyss as described in Revelation 9:1-2).
The Asteroid Impact brings the fires, 1/3 of the world (The New World) will burn.

But the Pre-Tribbers claim, "Wait, all this happens after the Rapture ... there is the Rapture and then the Second Coming with seven years in between them ..." Hold your horses ... wait a minute, you can't say that, the horses have already been released.
Let's look at Revelation 7. Here we see a sealing of the 144k and a multitude in heaven that no one can number who just came OUT OF the Great Tribulation.
The 144,000 is simply a UNIQUE CODE as are the 7000 God says He has saved unto Himself. The number 10 = Completion, 7 Divine Completion, 12 Fulness o 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 and is God SHOUTHING this is ALL Israel who repents. 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 70000 is is also God SHOUTING this is ALL Israel who repents. Why should God allow Satan t know the exact number years in advance? Satan does know the percentage, it will we 1/3 of the Jews (Zech. 13:8-9) or 3.5-5 million Jews.

Those who came out of GREAT TRIBULATION came out of the Church Age Rapture. NO ONE gets Raptured during the 70th week, Gid tells us that in two places. The 5th Seal where God says to those killed during the 70th week that ALL of their Brothers must be killed in like manner before they can get vengeance, so they must wait for a little season (his 42 month reign as the Beast). Then in Rev. 20:4 we see all of those Martyrs only gets RAISED & JUDGED after Jesus' Return. Those in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT be 70th week Martyrs. They are our brothers who built te Church on their blood, millions were killed. NOTICE it does not say the came out of the Greatest Ever Troubles, you guys JUMP to that conclusion, it says they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and our brothers did just that !! Also, Jesus says in John 16:33 that ALL TIME on this earth is Tribulation. My gift/calling is I can add it all up.

However, it is referred to as a parenthetical citation, information given which is not part of the chronology of events. The sealing of the 144k Jews AND translation of the multitude must happen BEFORE any harm comes to the earth, land, sea or trees.
Look back at the previous chapter in the 6th Seal. How could any of these events not cause harm to the earth? Also with the 6th Seal brings great wind!
Let me submit that this sealing and arrival of the multitude in heaven happens amidst an interesting physical anomally experienced on the entire planet --- the wind stops blowing everywhere. It is a pause, a key signal the the trumpets are about to be blown and bowls released.
It ALL FITS once you accept the Seals are just Prophetic in nature, Jesus prophesying what comes via the Seven Trumpet Judgments. Then Rev. 6 CAN'T HINDER anything, because the Winds (Judgments) only start in Rev. 8. Thus God HOLDS BACK the Judgments until the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews) get saved and flee to the Petra/Bozrah area where Gid will protect them for 1260 days.

The 7th Seal is opened and there is that silence i1an heaven for a half hour, a pause ----when the wind stops blowing.
The SILENCE = Reverence. It repented God when He flooded the earth. The Angels/God/Jesus ae not happy it has come to this, they are very grieved that they must kill billions of Human Beings, but Justice has to prevail. With the other 6 Seals Jesus PROPHESIED coming events, with the 7th Seal JUDGMENT is at hand, that is why noting is said after the 7th Seal is opened up. That is why it is opened in Rev. 8.
 

Davy

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When will Jesus return ?
When will Salvation return ?

When one is Truly Saved ! Christ has come to you ? then you are an Israel ! Servant of God ! Not of this world, that Jesus pointed out that is full of deceptions and delusions ! But of the Kingdom of God !
Now the Wolves are set to devour ? but in the end of this world the wolves do not exist in the second coming Kingdom of God. for all will be Saved, because the deceptions and delusions will be burnt up.
Thing is though, ain't nobody actually 'saved' in the literal sense until Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Here we are in a time very close to the coming greatest test of this present world, the "great tribulation", and some actually think we have already been 'saved' through it when it hasn't even started yet? It just does not happen that way, which is why Lord Jesus and His Apostles showed us that His servants are to make a stand for Him during the coming "great tribulation", not seek to be cowards and hide.
 

Truth7t7

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Thing is though, ain't nobody actually 'saved' in the literal sense until Lord Jesus Christ returns.
Your claim is false, once a believer is saved and sealed by God the Holy Spirit, it's until redemption "Guaranteed"!

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

Truth7t7

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Thing is though, ain't nobody actually 'saved' in the literal sense until Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Here we are in a time very close to the coming greatest test of this present world, the "great tribulation", and some actually think we have already been 'saved' through it when it hasn't even started yet? It just does not happen that way, which is why Lord Jesus and His Apostles showed us that His servants are to make a stand for Him during the coming "great tribulation", not seek to be cowards and hide.
The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived


There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.