When You See the Abomination of Desolation Stand in the Holy Place

[marks]

Then you also have to reject the history of the church in 70ad...

That's for me to say.

 

[marks]

No mark I don’t. When I read your post I thought you were being sincere in your quest for the truth. Just wanted you to know that God has chosen the uneducated and not those who twist the words to support their ideals. God reveals his word to those who seek it through him and not by other opinions.

Thank you!

Certain twisting someone's words is not the best means of communication! Anyone on this forum can tell you that! Well, maybe just some.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

CAUSE WE HAVE THE COMFORTER .
WHEN paul spoke of HIS coming , DID PAUL NOT YET HAVE THE SPIRIT O CHRIST in HIM . YES HE DID .

Question then who is the comforter? Who is the Spirit of truth where Jesus Christ said you have believed I came out from the Father and I return to the Father. John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

I am confused then “I will send unto you from the Father” I will take of mine and show it to you…even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father John 16:25-31 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. [26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: [27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out (proceed out) from God. [28] I came forth (proceed out) from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go (return) to the Father. [29] His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. [30] Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. [31] Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

John 16:13-19 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [15] All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. [16] A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go (return)to the Father. [17] Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go (return)to the Father? [18] They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith. [19] Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

Who is the Spirit of truth that proceeds out from the Father? And what did He mean when He said “and again, a little while, and you shall see me”?

 

[Enoch111]

Who is the Spirit of truth that proceeds out from the Father?

The Spirit of truth is none other than God the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Holy Trinity. He is also called "the Comforter" or "the Paraclete". He is sent by the Father, and He is also sent by the Son. He is also the "Restrainer" who restrains evil on earth.

 

[marks]

No mark I don’t. When I read your post I thought you were being sincere in your quest for the truth. Just wanted you to know that God has chosen the uneducated and not those who twist the words to support their ideals. God reveals his word to those who seek it through him and not by other opinions.

I do think God uses a variety of means to show us things. And even to the one who isn't seeking, God will still sometimes open their eyes.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then you also have to reject the history of the church in 70ad... You need to reconcile the abomination of desolation coming, with what the church avoided in the past, because they were both the same. The little horn, the Antichrist, that grew from the head of the 4th beast, Rome, and is to be destroyed at the second coming, is a Roman horn. There is no other entity possible, either corporate or individual, that meets those specifications. None. The Antichrist, the man of sin, the son of perdition, the little horn, the first beast of Revelation 13, all of which share the same characteristics and historical significance can only be the Catholic Church.

You said that the antichrist was already seated in the church, was that right? To which I disagree, unless you mean the false church.

I do not believe the antichrist is some sort of omnipresent spirit being who can be in all the churches, and all the believers. This is a created person who is in one place at one time.

There are antichrists in the church, but as counterfeit members.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Spirit of truth is none other than God the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Holy Trinity. He is also called "the Comforter" or "the Paraclete". He is sent by the Father, and He is also sent by the Son. He is also the "Restrainer" who restrains evil on earth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Who is the he that may abide with you for ever …this is our brother who was taken and has returned testifying “I am Alive!” “He lives” in He who was dead but is Alive and retuned unto you “that he may abide with you for ever” having overcome death and the grave!
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[marks]

No mark I don’t. When I read your post I thought you were being sincere in your quest for the truth. Just wanted you to know that God has chosen the uneducated and not those who twist the words to support their ideals. God reveals his word to those who seek it through him and not by other opinions.

I decided a long time ago to just take the Bible as I find it. I have no investment in this opinion or that opinion, only in knowing what God says.

I think this sort of submission to God is crucial towards gaining a correct understanding of His Word. We have to be willing, even eager, to reverse ourselves when we read something that conflicts with our views.

It astounds me how many people are so very willing to overthrow the plain and clear meanings of the Scriptures rather than try to change and rethink their view.

But then, I understand, I've done the same, ignorantly, until I understood.

What I understood was this. In every case where I've found I needed to alter my understanding of a passage, it was because I had failed to account for the meaning of a word, or a few words, and just glazed over them. I think that's what people tend to do a lot. We think we understand a passage, although we can't really say why this part was included, so we just kind of glide right past it.

In every case where I've come to realize my mistake, that mistake was at the core a failure to take EVERY WORD seriously.

So, I've learned, take every single word, every letter, as seriously as the next, and, somehow, the conflicts all seem to resolve.

But not with others, I seem to get routinely dumped on over this, so, that's why the question. Again, thank you for clarifying!

Much love!

 

[marks]

You may recognise that Rome is a false church, but that is a decidedly unpopular opinion among Christians today.

I don't have a problem with that. I believe Jesus brought a Gospel of grace, and that is not the teaching of the CC.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No but Nero declared himself god over everything including the church and demanded to be worshiped and the punishment for not worshiping him was death but of course he wasn’t god over everything

A number of rulers have done that. Nebuchadnezzar, long before Nero. Were they seated in the temple though? I can't think of any.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The AOD was the Roman army in 70AD notice the similarities below?

Matthew 24:15-21
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetopgo down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20-24
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Christians left Jerusalem when they had an open window when the Roman army first surrounded Jerusalem and then for reasons unknown retreated and then later returned.

The warning Jesus gave them was that what happened in Daniels prediction of the desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epehanies would happen again but this time there wouldn’t be someone like Judas Maccabee to save them.

Maybe note what is not similar, and let those things speak also.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

A number of rulers have done that. Nebuchadnezzar, long before Nero. Were they seated in the temple though? I can't think of any.

Much love!

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Not many …but One God, One Lord

 

[Enoch111]

Who is the he that may abide with you for ever …this is our brother who was taken and has returned testifying “I am Alive!” “He lives” in He who was dead but is Alive and retuned unto you “that he may abide with you for ever” having overcome death and the grave!

You are substituting Christ for the Holy Spirit. That actually contradicts what Christ said in John 14:16. Jesus is not that "another Comforter". It is the Holy Spirit and that should be clear from the context.

 

[Timtofly]

The AOD was the Roman army in 70AD notice the similarities below?

Matthew 24:15-21
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetopgo down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20-24
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The Christians left Jerusalem when they had an open window when the Roman army first surrounded Jerusalem and then for reasons unknown retreated and then later returned.

The warning Jesus gave them was that what happened in Daniels prediction of the desecration of the temple by Antiochus Epehanies would happen again but this time there wouldn’t be someone like Judas Maccabee to save them.

There was desolation in Jerusalem for many years after 70AD. Still not the AoD.

The people fled years before 70AD. 70AD was still not the AoD that made people flee into the Judean hillside. At least get the historical record straight. No one fled Jerusalem in 70AD. They either died, or were forced into slavery. If there was any abomination it was the acts of the rebels themselves usurping authority over the Temple. But the Temple was rendered useless at the Cross. It was just a shallow show of man's rebellion against God between 30AD and 70AD. There was 40 years of abomination going on in the Temple to set the historical record straight. Those religious leaders told Pilate that the innocent blood of Jesus was on their hands and that of their children. How could they do the job of the Temple after that admission?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are substituting Christ for the Holy Spirit. That actually contradicts what Christ said in John 14:16. Jesus is not that "another Comforter". It is the Holy Spirit and that should be clear from the context.

Is He the Spirit of God or not? Is He the Spirit of truth which overcomes the spirit which is in the world, the spirit of fear unto bondage? God Manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit? So the resurrected Christ is not the Holy Spirit that testifies He who was dead and led away to be crucified is Alive and has come forth out of the grave and overcome it? Alive for evermore, to remain, keep, endure, abide…manifest, lo, always with you?

 

[marks]

A misunderstanding of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel will throw all eschatology into a confusing and wrong direction.
The error is the separation of the 70th week from the continuum of the prophecy. This view is one of eisegesis not exegesis.

Any misunderstandings will skew other understandings, I think! I seem to see a lot of that over the years.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The error is the separation of the 70th week from the continuum of the prophecy.

I don't know what you mean here. Separate how? What is your "continuum of prophecy"? What does that mean?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) [6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Not many …but One God, One Lord

Luke 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; …

1 Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Any misunderstandings will skew other understandings, I think! I seem to see a lot of that over the years.

Much love!

it is like a broken record that continues to skip at the same place. Over and over on repeat.

 

[marks]

Investigate what this inclusive religoin is all about . It is about humanity , creation . ITS HERE MY FRIEND . ITS HERE .
And due to the fact that most all religoins look for some kind of coming savoir , one that will establish WORLD peace
THEY all getting set up for it .

Just so you know, I've studied and followed "emergent" and NAR for the past 20 years or so. Purpose Driven, Seeker Friendly. all that.

Before I was a Christian, I was New Age/Wiccan, and I'm aware of the movement to the harlot.

Much love!