When You See the Abomination of Desolation Stand in the Holy Place

[marks]

Rev 3.10 is not a prophecy of the end of the age, but rather, a prophecy of the time in which John lived, as well as all 7 churches John was writing to. This was an actual historical experience--not the reign of Antichrist! John wrote of future things *after* he addressed the current needs of these 7 churches in Asia Minor.

For me, I want to make sure I'm accounting for everything said.

In this instance,

Revelation 3:10 KJV
10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This hour of temptation, what does that refer to? It comes upon all the world, to test them that live on the earth. What is it?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

And what assumption is that again? I'm not following you.

You spoke of assuming that "annoint the most holy" meant the temple. Now you are calling on me to support "my assumption". I've told you I don't make that assumption. What is it you want to know?

Much love!

It's silly to call it an assumption when that is actually what anointing the most holy means...

'The most holy' never refers to a person. It is a reference to the 'Holy of Holies' inside the temple (or tabernacle).

The Daniel 9:24 reference 'to anoint the most holy' is pointing back to Daniel 8:14 about the 'cleansing of the sanctuary'...

Dan 8:14
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
KJV

 

[marks]

This tells us that Jesus expects the saints to understand the reality about the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, the Antichrist. The Abomination of Desolation will be the image of the Beast placed within the Holy Place in a future temple in Jerusalem.

Yes!!!

Let the reader understand . . . this therefore CAN be understood. And if so, then it has to be through the normal medium of written communication, language understood in the normal ways language is understood.

I feel like many people approach prophecy as a massive jigsaw puzzle. Dump all the pieces out of the box, and start matching things us. I suppose I used to look at it that way.

Now I realize that the best way to understand prophecy is to read it over and over and over and over and over again, until you are so familiar with it, that as you read one part, you can reflect in your mind concerning other parts. We're not piecing together a puzzle out of prophetic details, we are painting a picture from prophetic narrative. Following the narrative in the right way will give the right picture, and that's where the details come in, they reinforce the correct picture, but will contradict an inaccurate picture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. But he is already sitting in the church...

I most strongly disagree with this, unless you mean the false church.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Revelation 11:1-2
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

I've been thinking about the interpretation you propose for a few months now. And I'm not saying I disagree with you. But the passage above appears to contradict this interpretation. Contrary to the idea that an infidel stands in the midst of the temple, it appears that the infidels are only allowed to tread outside the temple.

What do you think?

I want to come back to this after a bit . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

1....A Temple...what is it or, what is its significance...or, what is its purpose?
2....The daily sacrifice...what is it or, what is its significance....or, what is its purpose?

This needs to be clear before any further understanding.

I propose the temple and sacrifices are exactly what it sounds like. The building in Jerusalem where animals are offered to God. That following the destruction of Gog/Magog et al, that is, the militarized Islamic nations, the Israelites will rebuild their temple and restart their sacrifices.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

(thinking)

Mark Elliot Zuckerberg (born May 14, 1984) In 2007, at age 23, he became the world's youngest self-made billionaire. As of June 2021, Zuckerberg's net worth is $123.1 billion, making him the 5th-richest person in the world. -wikipedia

The Antichrist can only be a Jewish Male, he will be gifted with the natural talent to exert a political pull, to overthrow the presidency and leaderships; of many countries. Harold Camping, said once, his date of May 21, 2011........paralleled the birth of the antichrist, would would eventually make his world wide declaration. Perhaps beginning with the USA Presidency...............(even Stephen Hawkings when asked about the Antichrist, said, thats something I cannot do, I'm not jewish).

Daniel Declares the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place

DANIEL 8:10 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
DANIEL 8:11 Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
DANIEL 8:12 And an host was given [him] against the daily [sacrifice] by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

These two highlighted passages in Red, Translated into Political Authority. Either having Political Authority or Manipulating Political Authority. (susposedly he specifically has the ability to do that). Because the language highlighted in Red, deals with making "Transgression Prosper and Practised and Casing this into the Earth/Ground", that is dealing with men, and their doctrines, that translates into Political Authority.

The Truth is there..................there is several Jewish Males specifically controlling the wealth of the nations, that goes to show how filthy and unimportant the global economy is and the usa the head of the global economy, a few of them are public and a few of them are not public figures, one of them, must be the antichrist, it is only a matter of time before the Antichrist comes forwards. Claims he is a descendant of David, and in the Blood Line of the Jewish Peoples, and claims global authority. Breaks the Peace Treaty of Isreal, takes control of the middle east under one banner, and strips the usa of its global status. (which many believe President Biden, is, in league, and therefore his presidency will not only be successful, but he will have two terms in office leading to the emergence of the Jewish Messiah among the nations).

(according to Matthew 24:30, when his authority is rejected, he will kill a consider number of people with an unearthly power and at that time, all nations will surrender to his authority) (and this may begin when the usa tries to throw out his presidency) (so this is very soon) (and that is what makes Joe Biden's Presidency so important to the antichrist, it is his staging ground in understanding how he is to be implemented)

The part where you said the Anti Christ can only be a jewish male .
Scriptures seems to back you up .
I would like everyone to turn to daniel .
Also look in the old testament . Often when a king did bad , it said HE did not follow the God of His fathers .
Of HIS FATHERS . THE JEWISH GOD .
Okay . Now what does it say about this anti Christ . IT SAYS HE DOES NOT REGARD THE GOD OF HIS FATHERS . OF HIS FATHERS .
That makes me think , HE IS GONNA BE A JEW .

 

[amigo de christo]

This tells us that Jesus expects the saints to understand the reality about the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, the Antichrist. The Abomination of Desolation will be the image of the Beast placed within the Holy Place in a future temple in Jerusalem.

This is the same temple where this Man of Sin will sit and claim that he is God (and Christ). He will present himself as the "true" Jewish Messiah of Israel to Orthodox Jews (who have rejected Jesus of Nazareth). He will also take total control of the whole world for 3 1/2 years. So let the reader understand that Matthew 24:15 gives us a glimpse of what is provided in more detail in Revelation 11-13 (and many other Scriptures, particularly in Daniel).

We have another thread claiming that there will be no such Man of Sin, and the antichrists are all around us, or have been around for centuries, or that the papacy is the Antichrist. All that is completely false.

The papacy is of the SPIRIT of anti Christ . but YES my friend , THERE IS GONNA BE A MAN OF SIN . You are correct my friend .
This image , will have the ability to even speak .
We already have that technology . Remember what JESUS said
He said whose IMAGE and superscription is this . back in that time an image could not speak .
But due to Blue ray and AI , i see many images that can speak even now . We are ready for the end hour to kick off .
No time in the world could they deliver some kind of mark , that if one did not have it , they could not function in society
WE HAVE IT NOW as well . ALL things are coming fast upon this generation . JUST like the bible Said .
And folks mock the bible . YET ITS TOTALLY ACCURATE .
Things are headed fast right to that final hour , right unto the day of armegeddon . Even now
the world as gathering to be as one , We are ONE they chant . BUT UNDER WHAT SPIRIT . IT AINT GOD .
ITS satan . These spirits are working to bring the world together right under the beast . And its unfolding faster and faster .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes!!!

Let the reader understand . . . this therefore CAN be understood. And if so, then it has to be through the normal medium of written communication, language understood in the normal ways language is understood.

I feel like many people approach prophecy as a massive jigsaw puzzle. Dump all the pieces out of the box, and start matching things us. I suppose I used to look at it that way.

Now I realize that the best way to understand prophecy is to read it over and over and over and over and over again, until you are so familiar with it, that as you read one part, you can reflect in your mind concerning other parts. We're not piecing together a puzzle out of prophetic details, we are painting a picture from prophetic narrative. Following the narrative in the right way will give the right picture, and that's where the details come in, they reinforce the correct picture, but will contradict an inaccurate picture.

Much love!

There is a key passage in John that should easily sum this ANTI CHRIST verses Anti Christs up .
Notice JOHN says it is the last hour and as you have heard that ANTI CHRIST , SINGULAR should come
But even now they are many anti christs , PLURAL . SO THERE IS ONE COMING . AND IT WILL REIGN over the anti Christs .
The we are one world which is already under the spirit of anti Christ . For the mystery of inquity has been at work a very very long time .
But now all things are building right up to that last and final hour .

 

[amigo de christo]

Even now is IT in the world . All things are unfolding .
Another key hint . Go back to daniel . There was one large horn that got broken into four little horns .
That sounds like alexander the great and when HE died he had no heir . THUS his kingdom was given unto four generals .
Now notice that it says specifically when this little horn will arise .
And in the last days , WHEN , WHEN the transgressors have come to the FULL , THEN IT STANDS .
AND its FULL . LOOK at this world . LOOK AT IT . AND BY PEACE HE shall destroy many .
TWO KEY THINGS i see in this generation . THE trangressors are fast coming to the full
and the message of we are one for world PEACE is growing massive . SO ITS NIGH READY TO ARRIVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Folks ponder how on earth can the temple be rebuilt .
Take a look a UAE . they are combining three massive temples even now . Muslim , christain , jewish .
THEY GONNA DO THIS IN JERUSALEM . THE TEMPLE will include the DOME or be right next too it .
THEY even have plans to use the muslims in this temple . Start researching .
THIS all inclusive dung pile i have long warned out against is the total work of satan .
THEY GONNA MERGE the religions . And a religoin of mother earth spirituality will be the common ground .
ALL about good works , all about humanity , all about mother earth . THEY WORSHIP the creature and creation
NOT GOD . Its all the work of satan . But folks are too scared to call this pope OUT on his stuff .
I aint . HE IS FALSE . so is the all inclusive lie . SO IS and are those who say the muslims worship the same GOD we do .
ITS all a farce . THIS THREE FAITH ABRAHAM ACCORD . IS BUILT ON SAND , NOT TRUTH . JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY
and that STANDS FINAL and FOREVER . Not even jews who reject HIM will see the Kingdom of GOD ,
nor any other religion .
The flesh profits nothing . SO even if jews came claim they are of abraham and even if muslims can clain we are of Ishamel .
ITS still NOT GONNA SAVE THEM . FAITH IN JESUS IS WHAT SAVES . OR have we kicked out the true gospel .

 

[David H.]

THE TEMPLE will include the DOME or be right next too it .
THEY even have plans to use the muslims in this temple . Start researching .

That is correct. The 1290 days Points directly to the Dome of the Rock.
The Daily sacrifice was taken away when Babylon first looted the temple (Not when she was destroyed) 599bc. The dome of the Rock was dedicated circa 692Ad which is exactly 1290 years or prophetic days. What are the Muslims waiting for? Issa (Their Jesus) to come to Jerusalem and give credence to Mahdi.

We serve a living God not a dead prophet, we serve one who was and Is and Is to come, Not one who was and is not now and is to come.

 

[marks]

I propose the temple and sacrifices are exactly what it sounds like. The building in Jerusalem where animals are offered to God. That following the destruction of Gog/Magog et al, that is, the militarized Islamic nations, the Israelites will rebuild their temple and restart their sacrifices.

Much love!

In the same way, I likewise propose that days and years are just that, days and years. I've encountered a number of people over the years with a variety of formulas in calculating prophetic times. Some with very intricate formulas, some simple.

It seems there are many who will see, "To the Lord a day is as a 1000 years, and a 1000 years as a day", and read it as, "In prophetic narrative compute every day to be 1000 years."

Clearly this is not true as a blanket formula given by God to understand prophecy.

"Just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man will be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."

"And on the third day He will rise again."

Jesus was not in the grave for 3000 years.

And in fact what I find is that no one suggests He was, and all acknowledge, if only tacitly, that they apply this rule as they wish, to this but not to that, according to their own determination.

I propose that we look at prophetic narrative in the normal way we understand language, holding to both sequence and duration as stated. Just what the Bible says, not more, not less.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

@marks please allow me to present the context of our conversation up to this present time as the time difference between us is causing the context of our discussion to become lost in the noise of the other posts in this thread.

Let me put our discussion into context as your methods of cut and paste does not present the heart of our discussion other than your POV.

I initially quoted from three of your posts before responding to them in #6 as snipped below:

Below was my response to the above three quotes from your previous posts: -


Below are your responses where you skewed what I had actually posted: -
#9

#10

To which I responded in #32: -

And in #35: -

To which you responded in the following three posts:
#54

#55

and # 56


Mark, there is no point continuing this discussion as you firmly believe that you have the best handle to explain the timeline of the end times.

I on the other hand know that your understanding does not match the scriptural record of what and when the prophetic events will occur.

It also seems to me that you have no understanding of who or what the entity of the Beast and the false Prophet are.

As we will both have died before the False prophet and the Beast rises up out of the Bottomless pit after being imprisoned in the near future for 1,000 years, we will not see the reality that we are both attempting to describe occurring.

As such I will leave you to present your understanding without challenging them further, as any attempt to do so is only meet with false arguments in the manner of your rebuttals of what I post.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Orthodox Jews believe that since they are still under the Old Covenant, a temple is essential for them. Therefore there are already plans in place to build a third temple in Jerusalem. And once that is built, there will be daily sacrifices (as in the Law of Moses).

Naftali Bennett, who is now the Prime Minister of Israel, had this to say last year: "Israel Defense Minister Naftali Bennett last Wednesday insisted that these are the days of the Third Temple, and that the modern State of Israel is very much a part of the prophesied global redemption." You can read the rest of it here.

Israel Defense Minister: These are the Days of the Third Temple!
Israel Defense Minister: These are the Days of the Third Temple!

and do you really think that Daniel under inspiration was referring to bricks and mortar?

 

[marks]

Revelation 11:1-2
Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

I've been thinking about the interpretation you propose for a few months now. And I'm not saying I disagree with you. But the passage above appears to contradict this interpretation. Contrary to the idea that an infidel stands in the midst of the temple, it appears that the infidels are only allowed to tread outside the temple.

What do you think?

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The two pieces of information on this then are that the outer court of the temple is given to the gentiles, and also that they will tread the holy city underfoot for 42 months.

The temple will be, I think in the holy city, same as before.

My questions would be, when is the temple to be built, and when are the 42 months that the holy city will be trod underfoot?

Daniel 7:25-26 KJV
25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26) But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Revelation 13:4-7 KJV
4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

I'm seeing a 42 month (1260 days, or 3.5 years of 12 x 30 day months) period where power is given to the beast for 42 months ending when Jesus comes.

Towards the temple building, I can only guess, however, it has to be built before the man of sin sits there, the AOD, marking the beginning of 3.5 years of great tribulation. So then prior to that.

There's not a lot to go on here, I realize that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@marks please allow me to present the context

Hi Jay,

I find Scripture to be much simpler than you do, I think.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Regarding Daniel in verse 15, some believe that is Daniel 9:24-27, but it is the little horn of Daniel 7. Daniel 9 has to do with the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and Daniel 7 is about the Ancient of Days and the second coming's time of the end.

In Daniel 7 Jesus is carried to the ancient of days. It has nothing to do with a futuristic idea of a flesh Jesus returning to the earth.

 

[quietthinker]

I propose the temple and sacrifices are exactly what it sounds like. The building in Jerusalem where animals are offered to God. That following the destruction of Gog/Magog et al, that is, the militarized Islamic nations, the Israelites will rebuild their temple and restart their sacrifices.

Much love!

You might consider this, marks....the temple being God's corporate Church......the daily sacrifice being none other than Jesus.

Bricks and mortar or tents, ie, physical structures where only ever symbols as were the daily sacrifices. The reality is embodied in God's plan of Salvation. It is this plan that is ever being thwarted by the enemy. Can you join the dots in this regard?

 

[Ziggy]

I always understood the holy place to be the Sabbath.
Stand in this place. What is the Sabbath?
A place of Peace, a place of rest.
Kind of like the church sent into the wilderness during the tribulation.

And you can extend that, we are to stand in the Lord because he is our peace.

When ye see....
It is with obseravtion..
the abomination
something wicked, unholy
that makes desolate
empty, dry, woeful..

stand in the holy place... Jesus.

So what was it Daniel saw that was wicked and unholy and brought emptiness and dryness?

I'm thinking that Idol that the king wanted everyone to bow to.
And Daniel stood his ground in the Lord.

In the end even the King recognized that God was King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
No Idol could ever take his place, only we can set up idols in our hearts to replace him.
And idols do not bring peace or comfort or rest.
They bring abomination and desolation to ones soul.

Just thinking...
Hugs