Where do people get the authority?

[MatthewG]

By EXAMPLE

The New Testament authors take the Old Testament out-of-context to apply it to themselves. And not like once or twice; they do it a lot. The main thesis of Matthew's gospel seems to be "how Jesus fulfils the prophets."

So then, following their example, we appropriate their writings for ourselves.

I don't get that.

 

[nedsk]

Nah I just read it for what is worth. People can say I am wrong, or call me names behind my back. It doesn't matter anymore to me.

Well you are wrong and very wrong at that but good for you for not caring.

 

[MatthewG]

Well you are wrong and very wrong at that but good for you for not caring.

Okay. Thank you for the discussion.

It's nothing new to me personally.

 

[Wick Stick]

I don't get that.

What's not to get?

The Apostle Matthew doesn't need to SAY, "it's okay to apply the Bible to your life out-of-context." He just does it himself. By doing it, he sets an example for us. He legitimizes the practice by DOING it.

 

[MatthewG]

What's not to get?

The Apostle Matthew doesn't need to SAY, "it's okay to apply the Bible to your life out-of-context." He just does it himself. By doing it, he sets an example for us. He legitimizes the practice by DOING it.

Doing what, exactly? Im sorry if I don't understand where you are coming from.

 

[nedsk]

Okay. Thank you for the discussion.

It's nothing new to me personally.

I bet it not new to you but everyone is wrong and you're right, isnt that the case?

 

[Wick Stick]

Doing what, exactly? Im sorry if I don't understand where you are coming from.

This...

>> So how can people assert this authority if there is no passage of scripture which state "and these letters are to everyone ever more."

There's no passage that SAYS that. But there are a lot of passages where they DO that.

 

[MatthewG]

This...

There's no passage that SAYS that. But there are a lot of passages where they DO that.

I don't think so. I still do not get what you are saying.

 

[MatthewG]

I bet it not new to you but everyone is wrong and you're right, isnt that the case?

They choose for themselves. Not me.

I've done made my choice already and I don't mind if people agree with me or disagree that is their choice.

No one should believe me or them.

They should investigate for themselves.

 

[nedsk]

They choose for themselves. Not me.

I've done made my choice already and I don't mind if people agree with me or disagree that is their choice.

No one should believe me or them.

They should investigate for themselves.

LOL good luck with that bud

 

[MatthewG]

LOL good luck with that bud

Thank you. I find it difficult for people to read the bible in a whole contextual setting and studying verse by verse personally.

I have only done so much myself. I should pursue such things personally.

Thank you for joining in on the discussion. It's been a major help getting push back from people.

 

[Lizbeth]

Then explain why Jesus would say to Peter, he was going to build "my church". A church founded by Jesus is far more worthy of consideration than ones own "personal revelations" and certainly more than yours. If Jesus didnt intend for there to be church then the following is useless drivel

Matthew 16: 19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Matthew 18:18
“Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Is that really how you want to roll with the "spirit of Christ"?

Peter and the other apostles, along with the prophets, formed the rock foundation. And I read those verses as Jesus delegating His keys and authority to the CHURCH He was/is building on that rock foundation....as well as Himself as Rock (chief cornerstone). Binding and loosing according to scripture has to do with forgiving (loosing from) debts, or not forgiving for a time if the person needs to be given over (bound over) to the Lord's discipline for a time. It also has to do with healing and deliverance, which gift/authority/power is also given to various parts of the Body/church according to their spiritual gifts (or even if God chooses to use any member that way at a given time even if they aren't particularly gifted that way normally).

I arguably think Peter was unspoken leader of the apostles though, he was being singled out by Jesus here, but not declared to be so in a formal way, just tacitly, in simplicity, and we do see him standing up to take the lead at times...as led by the Spirit. God's ways are not man's ways and I don't like seeing those verses being used to justify man's ways of making an institutionalized religion out of the Way of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

@nedsk,

That was the bride of Christ, the Apostles were in charge of in that day. Doesn't pertain to me, today. I do believe we become partakers of Christ, and co-heirs with Christ and all of those things, but that church that was pure, blameless, and holy was taken.

So...does that mean you do NOT include yourself in "I have been crucified with Christ" (Galatians 2:20)?

 

[nedsk]

Peter and the other apostles, along with the prophets, formed the rock foundation. And I read those verses as Jesus delegating His keys and authority to the CHURCH He was/is building on that rock foundation....as well as Himself as Rock (chief cornerstone). Binding and loosing according to scripture has to do with forgiving (loosing from) debts, or not forgiving for a time if the person needs to be given over (bound over) to the Lord's discipline for a time. It also has to do with healing and deliverance, which gift/authority/power is also given to various parts of the Body/church according to their spiritual gifts (or even if God chooses to use any member that way at a given time even if they aren't particularly gifted that way normally).

I arguably think Peter was unspoken leader of the apostles though, he was being singled out by Jesus here, but not declared to be so in a formal way, just tacitly, in simplicity, and we do see him standing up to take the lead at times...as led by the Spirit. God's ways are not man's ways and I don't like seeing those verses being used to justify man's ways of making an institutionalized religion out of the Way of Christ.

Thats all wonderful but the centuries that have passed since the time of Jesus were replete with heresy and error and without some authority to determine what is an error in teaching then you have nothing useful. I respectfully suggest you underplay what Jesus is telling Peter to fit a narrative.

In Matthews gospel chapter 16 Jesus tells Peter whatever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven whatever he looses on earth with be loosed in heaven. Jesus says the say thing to the apostles in chapter 18. What Jesus doesnt do in chapter 18 is give keys to the kingdom to the apostles, that was reserved for Peter in chapter 16.

 

[ScottA]

Thank you. I find it difficult for people to read the bible in a whole contextual setting and studying verse by verse personally.

So...you believe there are no foreshadowings or prophecies of things to come in the scriptures--and it's all just a book of historical events pertaining only to those times?

 

[nedsk]

So...you believe there are no foreshadowings or prophecies of things to come in the scriptures--and it's all just a book of historical events pertaining only to those times?

Yes that seems to be what he thinks.

 

[MatthewG]

So...does that mean you do NOT include yourself in "I have been crucified with Christ" (Galatians 2:20)?

I could see how that is applied by the Spirit.

So...you believe there are no foreshadowings or prophecies of things to come in the scriptures--and it's all just a book of historical events pertaining only to those times?

I told you I believe all things are fulfilled. I don't believe I have to repeat myself on that note anymore. (Believe me when I state what I have to you.)

There is only one part of scripture that I believe remains continually ongoing, Revelation 21,22. (I can see how this pertains spiritually.)

All people are resurrected and giving their spiritual bodies.

Inside or Outside of the Kingdom is the destination. (As I believe Revelation 20 has already been completed.)


I bank an 8 ball in the corner pocket, on faith.

 

[ScottA]

I could see how that is applied by the Spirit.



I told you I believe all things are fulfilled. I don't believe I have to repeat myself on that note anymore. (Believe me when I state what I have to you.)

There is only one part of scripture that I believe remains continually ongoing, Revelation 21,22. (I can see how this pertains spiritually.)

All people are resurrected and giving their spiritual bodies.

Inside or Outside of the Kingdom is the destination. (As I believe Revelation 20 has already been completed.)


I bank an 8 ball in the corner pocket, on faith.

Matthew,

You are a nice guy, and I don't mean to judge or be overly repetitious, yet repetition is quite biblical, so I have asked you to clarify.

The reason for doing so, is that you have--just in this one thread alone--done a whole lot of preaching based mostly on what you merely "believe." Ironically, that puts you in violation of the thread title, showing that you yourself have no biblical authority to do so.

To the contrary, many have offered examples and explanations of actual biblical authority in answer to your title question. Which, instead of taking it under consideration (as one who merely "believes" what is true on the matter), you continue to argue against what is presented, most of which you obviously have done to defend your own non-authoritative "beliefs." It's like you are hoping to get confirmation...and it's not happening, because few can agree with you unless you state the matter biblically correct. Which you have not done. Consequently, that leaves you just continuing to preach without authority.

 

[Lizbeth]

Thats all wonderful but the centuries that have passed since the time of Jesus were replete with heresy and error and without some authority to determine what is an error in teaching then you have nothing useful. I respectfully suggest you underplay what Jesus is telling Peter to fit a narrative.

In Matthews gospel chapter 16 Jesus tells Peter whatever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven whatever he looses on earth with be loosed in heaven. Jesus says the say thing to the apostles in chapter 18. What Jesus doesnt do in chapter 18 is give keys to the kingdom to the apostles, that was reserved for Peter in chapter 16.

Jesus also told Peter elsewhere to "feed my lambs".....Does that mean only Peter and his "successors" could feed the lambs?

 

[ScottA]

Cool. I have no authority. I know that already.


But I will say if someone claiming to be a prophet comes along all their predictions must come true.

That’s from da bible itself.

Good test--for Israel--maybe. But no, not for Sodom (spiritually Jerusalem), for then it was too late.

To the contrary, we are to test every spirit, and take warning--for in spite of all that is false, God has also included what is true--which was to continue as it began with Peter receiving the knowledge that Jesus was the Christ--to continue on throughout the building of His church.

But, that is more general to the entire church age. However, there was also to come near the end: the revealing of things sealed and held under restraint for every previous generation. Which indeed was prophesied, but also to be fulfilled. This is what we should be expecting. Have you expected it?