Where do people go when they die?

[Enoch111]

There will be no end to earth except our understanding that all of will die pass on going on the the dimension of where God resides either near to him or not so near to him depending on the person if they accepted faith, or rejected faith.

You are making up your own theology Matthew. You should be trying to learn the truth, instead of trying to mislead people.

 

[MatthewG]

Whatever you wanna believe, Enoch.

You are contradicting Scripture, God, and Christ.

God makes a clear distinction between believers and unbelievers. Christ makes a clear distinction also (Mk 16:15,16): And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If I said this I mean that all people are going to an heavenly realm either in the dark outside kingdom or inside of kingdom with God.

You may believe whatever you would like I’m not hear to fight or argue.

 

[Enoch111]

My belief suggests all people go to God to be judged.

This is TOTALLY FALSE and misleading.

1. Those who are "in Christ" (children of God) go directly to Heaven when they die. That is, their souls and spirits go to be with Christ, while their bodies remain in their graves, giving the appearance of sleep (which first buried). Thus they are said to "sleep in Jesus". But their souls and spirits are very much alive. Indeed Paul tells us that the departed saints are a "cloud of witnesses" who are observing the race which is being run by Christians on earth (Hebrews 12:1).

2. All believers will have their works judged at "the Judgment Seat of Christ". This is not a judgment for salvation, but a judgement for rewards.

3. All believers will be perfected and glorified at the Resurrection/Rapture and return to Heaven with Christ. They are NOT subject to the Great White Throne Judgment described in Revelation 20.

4. All unbelievers and the unrighteous go to Hades to await their final judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment. Hades is a place of torment.

5. The books are opened and the Book of Life is also opened. Since their names are not found in the Book of Life, they are cast into the Lake of Fire (which was originally prepared for the devil and his angels). The Lake of Fire is a place of eternal torment.

While we may not like to hear or read about this, it is in the Bible, and must not be misrepresent. People need to have a genuine fear of Hell.

 

[Enoch111]

If I said this I mean that all people are going to an heavenly realm either in the dark outside kingdom or inside of kingdom with God.

Hell is NOT a heavenly realm. So you can either believe what the Bible says, or hold on to your false beliefs and hope to fool others. But you will be held accountable for misleading people. It is far better to say that you have no clue and you need to learn the truth.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Enoch you may share how you view the Bible as freely as you desire and I could come back with scripture but am going to refuse to do so because this is the thing sir.

Everyone has their own view, they can look at scripture from the Bible and they can come up with all kinds of things from it.

My view see hell as already given up its dead , and that Jesus has already came back along with the bride of Christ being taken and Satan being defeated, and that Christ overcame hell, death, and sin.

Listen not a lot of people jive with me on my beliefs and I don’t expect them to, and people will try to give me a hard time about it as well.

Whatever you believe is on you and between you and God. I’m 100% responsible between also my relation with God and with others.

The original post still is my position and have shared also how have seen things to through out this postage.

If you wouldn’t mind it would be nice for you cut back and give me some room to breathe but if you would like to come at me and tell me I’m a heretic and that I’m misleading people you are more than free to do so because it doesn’t bother me personally.

Im always a person that will tell you don’t believe me. Don’t believe man, but trust God over men and what they have to tell you and if you are wanting to know truth it’s found in the Bible.

only faith please God not trying point out others who do not believe like yourself and fighting them. The truth is found in the Bible and if you don’t believe me please I encourage you to not do so.

With love,
Matthew G.

 

[MatthewG]

A few years ago I probably would have gone and looked for what he has to say on that verse in Thess, but I’ve grown a bit cynical and am sure he will not give any witness accounts of the miracles and wonders that the man he believes to be the man of lawlessness performed. I’m also sure he cannot explain why we are in the millennium and yet there are still wars when prophecy says there won’t be. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Okay.

 

[Taken]

MatthewG...
What you said...
"Some go not so near to Him"...
"And ALL "go to God" to be judged"...
I would take exception.
My perception.

Some ARE "WITH" Him...rest ARE "separated".."FROM" "WITHOUT" Him.

All go, BEFORE God, not TO God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

@Taken

Thank you for your insights my brother.

Love all here and thank you all for being patient with someone like myself,

God bless

 

[Taken]

@Taken

Thank you for your insights my brother.

Love all here and thank you all for being patient with someone like myself,

God bless

Thought I added this...oops, multi-tasking... but in general we are on the same page. We all use different words but conclude the same basic things.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

‘ Not know anything about you or your own faith background you and me will see differently on many things because of me being someone who believes that Jesus Christ already returned, and that we are living in age of fulfilment where Jesus has overcome, sin, Satan and his demons, death, Sheol, and He has had victory over these things.’

Hi @Matthew
The above really intrigues me ……I would be fascinated in hearing how and why you believe that, fancy started a thread, or directing me to one of you have already started one on the subject ?
Rita

I would certainly love to participate in such a discussion.....if you would like to start a thread....? :)

 

[Ezra]

I think if a man is thrown into the lake of fire, he is annihilated

27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ 49For everyone will be salted with fire.…Isaiah 66:24
"As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind."

the eternal lake of fire is eternal punishment

 

[stunnedbygrace]

27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ 49For everyone will be salted with fire.…Isaiah 66:24
"As they go forth, they will see the corpses of the men who have rebelled against Me; for their worm will never die, their fire will never be quenched, and they will be a horror to all mankind."

the eternal lake of fire is eternal punishment

I can’t reconcile it that humans live forever without Gods Spirit in them. I just can’t.

 

[Ezra]

I can’t reconcile it that humans live forever without Gods Spirit in them. I just can’t.

its all Bible we dont just perish and exist no more we have the words eternal damnation
Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

its a choice the rich man in hell was in torment's just wanted one drop of water he didnt even want his family there

 

[MatthewG]

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭I Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Some would say God doesn’t get what He desires.


“For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.”
‭‭I Timothy‬ ‭4:10-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

God is for some reason noted by Paul in the letter to Timothy to be the savior of all men.

For some reason Paul stated this to the Phillips is remember this an Apostle of Christ


“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


If people die and their soul goes back to God to be judged where do those who are faithless or have faith go?

For some reason the Johns letter to the 7 churches which is the revelation of Christ, makes it clear about this spiritual kingdom on high (in heaven) stated there is an outside to the kingdom.


“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


Will there ever be an end to the heavenly Kingdom?

“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Does not ever end.

Do you believe God who is the saviour of all men and women, especially of those who believe will destroy his own his creations who are all born outside of the nation of Israel since it’s the wrath of God fell on it in 70ad?

That is left up for you to decide about your thoughts on God and His character and his will.

All know should know no one is justified in their predetermined belief system yet on Christ alone.

“Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:1-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[stunnedbygrace]

its all Bible we dont just perish and exist no more we have the words eternal damnation
Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

its a choice the rich man in hell was in torment's just wanted one drop of water he didnt even want his family there

I don’t have all the answers but we do know hell and it’s contents will, in the end, be thrown into the eternal fire prepared for the devil. I get that somehow the devil is eternal. I just don’t think humans are unless they receive the Holy Spirit. So when taken with the verse about the fate of sodom being better on the day of judgement than for some others, it makes sense that sodom is annihilated in the fire, which is a greater mercy than being cast into outer darkness. How is sodoms fate better than someone else’s fate if both are in the same place?

 

[MatthewG]

Have you ever consider God being a consuming fire?

 

[Ezra]

it makes sense that sodom is annihilated in the fire, which is a greater mercy than being cast into outer darkness. How is sodoms fate better than someone else’s fate if both are in the same place?

you need to take into account what Jesus said the people of Sodom and Gomorrah died physically . then they had to face the judgment the eternal lake of fire is eternal .its not like a cremation . there is no mercy for those who have rejected Christ. he died on the cross to pay for our sins he arose on the 3rd so we could have eternal life

 

[MatthewG]

The lake of fire was made for Satan and his angels


There is a scripture that does talk about people taking ‘part’ of this fire. Hell and Death are thrown into the lake of fire. There is only one other fire I know of that exist and that is God.

That fire could burn away those who take part of it who are coming from the darkness in to the light.

Its total conjecture but gives me great hope for the ability of God getting his desire and I wanna to help those in the darkness to keep busying working with God as He works in and through me by Christ through faith.

:)

I love God he is awesome good fair and just and His desires can’t be trumped by man.

 

[Ezra]

That fire could burn away those who take part of it who are coming from the darkness in to the light.

do what ? there is no 2nd chance after death

 

[Aunty Jane]

I suspect they were freaked out because the dead had risen that they saw walking around during those 40 days and they became convinced they’d missed the gathering together.

Hello SbG, I often wondered about that passage too as it is only briefly mentioned by Matthew.
For such a momentous event to have taken place, why was it only mentioned in passing by one of the gospel writers? Is there more to this event than our English translations are telling us?

First, whoever “the holy ones” were, Matthew did not say they were raised up. He said their bodies, or corpses, were. Second, he did not say these bodies came to life. He said they were raised up, and the Greek verb e·geiʹro, meaning to “raise up,” does not always refer to a resurrection. It can, among other things, also mean to “lift out” from a pit or to “get up” from the ground. (Matthew 12:11; 17:7; Luke 1:69) (Matthew 12:11; 17:7; Luke 1:69)

There was a great earthquake at the time of Jesus’ death, and the upheaval likely opened tombs, tossing lifeless bodies into the open. Such occurrences during earthquakes were reported in the second century C.E. by Greek writer Aelius Aristides and in more modern history, some 200 bodies were thrown to the surface and were scattered on the ground in a massive earthqualke in Colombia in 1962. (“El Tiempo”, Bogotá (Colombia), July 31, 1962)

Matthew 27:51-54...what does the scripture actually say at the moment of Jesus' death, as opposed to what we might think it says...?

“Just then the temple curtain was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised. (They came out of the tombs after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.) Now when the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and what took place, they were extremely terrified and said, “Truly this one was God’s Son!” (NET)

Since the "holy ones" (saints) were going to be raised at Christ's return, (those "dead in Christ" were were to be raised first") who are they at the time Jesus walked the earth? None of them were taken into the New Covenant that Jesus inaugurated on the night before his death, so these ancient "holy ones" are men and women of faith whom God approved and of whom Paul made mention in Hebrews 11.

Since Jesus was dead in his tomb for three days and nights, this cannot possibly be the raising of his "saints" because this happened only moments after Jesus died. No one was raised before he was. And no "Holy Ones" or "Saints" would have been walking around whilst Jesus was still hanging on his execution stake or lying in his tomb.

It says of the ancients in Hebrews 11:13..."These all died in faith without receiving the things promised, but they saw them in the distance and welcomed them and acknowledged that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth."
So if all the ancient ones died without receiving the fulfillment of the promise (this was written by Paul after Jesus death and resurrection) then these ones were not "resurrected", but more likely that their bodies were thrown out of their tombs by the earthquake. You will notice that this translation put the next sentence in brackets.....so the next question is who is "they" who came "out of the tombs" and went into the city and "appeared to many people"?

The word "appeared" may be misleading here too, because "emphanizō" has more than one meaning in Greek. In other scriptures this word is translated as....."notify"...to "make things clear"...."to reveal"...so if we take that to mean that the ones who saw what had happened to the bodies thrust out of their tombs, (they had to be there to see that it had happened) then perhaps "they" were the ones who went into Jerusalem to notify people that it had happened....?

I can only go by what scripture itself says and by the original language words and their meaning. We can come to some odd conclusions sometimes without realizing that there could be more than one explanation.