Who did Jesus Die a Ransom for?

[Behold]

Then Jesus is NOT the savior of all people

Jesus is the Savior of ALL, but not all will come to Jesus and be saved.

Its like this..

If i tell you that God has given you a Billion dollars, and its in the 1st Bank of the Redeemed.

And you never go and get the money, then that is the same as Jesus being the Savior of ALL, yet, not ALL will go to the bank and get the money.

Its ALWAYS there, but if they dont go and get it then they never have it., YET< is ALWAY there.

Jesus is ALWAYS the Savior of ALL but not all will go to Jesus and get Salvation.

 

[Keiw]

Paul said that Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.

Yes he is savior of all people= All people who do all the requirements set forth by Godswill for mortals to do. The rest choose not to. Or are mislead. Jesus taught--FEW will find the road that leads off into life(be saved) Matt 7:13-14-- There is a whole bible for a reason.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It does mean ALL just as it says. So what do we do with those headed for the lake of fire which ultimately means death?

We preach the message of the kingdom to them so that they have no excuses to offer to God when that day comes and their wicked life on death row finally ends.

We assume God puts them into the lake of fire ie, kills them but no, it is the devil who steals, kills and destroys, not God.

We must assume then that God did not send the flood in which countless unbelievers perished.....or that an angel sent by him did not kill 185,000 enemy soldiers in one night. (2 Kings 19:35)
God has the right of life and death, otherwise death would not exist.
When Adam was told that taking what belonged to God would merit the death penalty, he understood what death was because God would never transgress his own law by not explaining what death would mean for them. Adam was educated by God for some time before he was to take on the role of husband and father.

Salvation is for ALL but not all want it. They prefer to die just as Judas did even though forgiveness extends to him also.

Yes, salvation is held out to all, just as it was to the ancient flood victims......Noah preached salvation to them the whole time he was building the arc. (2 Peter 2:5, 9)

2 Peter 3:3-7......
“First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”

5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.”

There it is.....the “destruction of the ungodly people”......Life is a precious gift, but it has always been conditional, right from its beginning........’obey God and live....disobey him and forfeit your life’. It’s not complicated until you start telling God how to exercise his perfect justice.
Judas could not be forgiven because he sinned against the holy spirit. He had been among the 12 When miracles were performed in Jesus’ name......there was no repentance accepted for the gravity of the crime. He knew that when he ended his life. Jesus called him “the son of destruction” because Matt 10:28 applied to him. Gehenna is a place of no return.....a place where souls are “destroyed”. Judas will never see life again.

Jesus told us to search for the “worthy ones” and preach his message of salvation to them, (Matt 10:11-15) but in Noah’s case, there were no “worthy ones”.......not a soul outside of the arc survived that judgment.

In our case, there are worthy ones, but they are not in the majority, since Jesus said “few” are on the road to life. (Matt 7:13-14) There will be “many” he said who will offer excuses to their “Lord”, but his rejection of these ‘pseudo Christians’ will be shocking to them. (Matt 7:21-23)

Whilst ever this world system is still in existence, we are to continue to find the “worthy ones” and bring them onto the ‘spiritual arc of salvation’. This wicked world is falling apart and many people are dreading what the future will bring.....we know what’s coming, and no human institution can save them......so we are to do what Noah did, and try to warn them of the impending disaster that awaits this doomed system ruled by the devil. (1John 5:19)
“Just like the days of Noah” (Matt 24:37-39) it will be an end of the old wicked world of mankind, and the beginning of a new world of righteousness (2 Peter 3:13)....for those who put in the effort to please God in all that they do.

 

[quietthinker]

We must assume then that God did not send the flood in which countless unbelievers perished.....or that an angel sent by him did not kill 185,000 enemy soldiers in one night. (2 Kings 19:35)

Yes, we must assume that.

God has the right of life and death, otherwise death would not exist.

Death is an enemy. It is the domain of the devil.

Hebrews 2:14 ...'Because God's children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death.'

 

[RR144]

Hello RR. You are correct. But to conform such that the sins of the father are not passed on to the son, it should be understood that Adam's fall resulted in a cherub guard denying all to the tree of life.

Huh? And what scriptural proof do you have for that?

The covenant of Moses was fullfiled by Jesus' life and mission. The life for a life is from Noahide covenant. Jesus' death fulfilled that covenant

And what exactly is the Moses covenant?

As Jesus was sinless, he can not be punished for sin. Rather his death fulfilled the covenants and his name became higher than the angels. Now, Jesus can command the tree of life be given to his wayward brothers. The cherub will let us thru on the advocacy of Jesus.

What covenant did Jesus' death fulfilled?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, we must assume that.

But not all are saved. God, as Creator, has the right to take life as much as he gives it.

Death is an enemy. It is the domain of the devil.

The devil was the first rebel, so yes, he is the one who influenced the first humans to sin, which introduced death.

Hebrews 2:14 ...'Because God's children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death.'

The devil has no authority to take life…all he can do is tempt people to commit sin so that they will disqualify themselves from salvation. He cannot force free willed humans to do anything….he sets them up to indulge the fallen flesh and they lose out on life by choosing to do what the devil wants them to do, rather than what God says they should.
Look what Satan did to tempt Jesus…..after 40 days in the wilderness communing with his Father, the devil took advantage of his physically weakened state and tempted him three times. None of them moved him to sin…..each temptation was met with the same reply…”it is written”. Jesus used God’s word to make wise decisions when under temptation.

 

[rwb]

Paul said that Jesus is the savior of ALL people.

1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.

The blood of Christ is the propitiation for ALL sin! But He is Saviour for only those who believe! If this were not true, why would this verse add "especially of those who believe"? God has been saving mankind, or all men, even those that are wicked and ungodly since the beginning of creation. We see this clearly because Adam and Eve did not physically die after they disobeyed God. God physically saved them and made a way through blood by which they might be eternally saved IF they believe Him. It is by the precious blood of the Lamb that mankind might be saved IF they too believe! Without faith in Christ there is not eternal life through Him! Those who die in unbelief will have their part in the lake of fire that is the second death.

 

[rwb]

I believe that faithful Christians are indeed saved from judgment, damnation, and Hell. However, I also believe that nobody remains in Hell forever and that, eventually, ALL those in Hell will repent and also become faithful followers of Christ.

None who are cast into the lake of fire can be saved from it because it is the second death! Every human shall have their part in physical death, but only those who die in unbelief shall partake of the second death.

Revelation 20:14-15 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

Here's another. Jesus is the savior of the WORLD. I do believe that Jesus sends people to Hell, but it's for their benefit so that they can repent, be cleansed and join the rest of us in the kingdom. Otherwise, Jesus is NOT the "savior of the world".


1 John 4:14 ESV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Yes, and because the blood of Christ was poured out, the world or kosmos will not utterly perish but shall be made new again through Him.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Huh? And what scriptural proof do you have for that?

And what exactly is the Moses covenant?

What covenant did Jesus' death fulfilled?

Here is the logic
original sin or intrinsic reprobation (my words) or divine curse is refuted by
Deuteronomy 24
16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Therefore to summarize the narrative of Adam's fall -something that was freely given by God the garden of Eden and was lost due to Adams conduct. This was access to the Tree of Life
I will paraphrase with my language. Adam's perfected genome was insufficient to maintain a relationship with God. So the genome was permitted to live a animals existence and die. God is not obligated to sustain a disobedient creature.
Genesis 3
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
What is the tree of life ? It is a tree of healing not a tree of immortality as per Augustine (per my best estimate of said false doctrine). It is the healing mechanism (my words) that can sustain life given by God
Ezekiel 47
12And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
The new heaven and the new earth that is promised by the Most Merciful God are trees everywhere for obedient sons.
Revelation 22
1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

The Mosaic Covenant - it is the law as handed to Moses at Mount Sinai to be obeyed by the freed slaves of pharaoh.
Exodus 19
1In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. 2For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. 3And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 4Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Matthew 5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
In fact all agreements between God and man is negotiated by Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jesus' Death fulfilled the perfect man Adam genomes dying before the flood
Genesis 9
1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. 5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Therefore to summarize the narrative of Adam's fall -something that was freely given by God the garden of Eden and was lost due to Adams conduct. This was access to the Tree of Life
I will paraphrase with my language. Adam's perfected genome was insufficient to maintain a relationship with God. So the genome was permitted to live a animals existence and die. God is not obligated to sustain a disobedient creature.

Adam stole what belonged to his rightful Sovereign.....it merited the death penalty. Free will was abused with disastrous results for his progeny.
That faulty genetic inheritance was passed onto all of his children through no fault on their part. (Rom 5:12) God sent the ransomer to pay the debt that Adam left for his children, to free them from that slavery to sin and inevitable death.
God’s law and perfect justice was satisfied when a perfect sinless life was offered for the perfect sinless life that Adam deprived his children from inheriting.
But many ask why it is taking God so long to fix all the problems in the world? The answer lies in God’s counting of time. (2 Peter 3:8)
The Creator and his spirit sons do not live on earth and are therefore not restricted to earth years in order to accomplish the goals set by God. For us earth bound humans, it seems to be taking forever to get things sorted, but because rebellion began with a spirit son, much of what God needs to accomplish has to take place in universal time, not earth time. The devil eventually took a third of his brother angels with him in that rebellion, so it’s for the benefit of all his children (both heavenly and earthly) that it is brought to a successful conclusion so that no rebel will ever challenge God’s Sovereignty and ruin his purpose, again.

What is the tree of life ? It is a tree of healing not a tree of immortality as per Augustine (per my best estimate of said false doctrine). It is the healing mechanism (my words) that can sustain life given by God

Agreed. No human can be immortal because of their very nature. They rely on external things to keep living (oxygen, water, food, shelter) so as long as these were supplied, access to the tree of life meant living forever in mortal flesh. Living forever is not immortality because you cannot kill an immortal. If Adam and his wife has been created as immortals, the death penalty would have been meaningless. All of God’s children possess free will and the death penalty will always remain for disobedience. Continued obedience is what will merit everlasting life, as it was in the beginning.

The new heaven and the new earth that is promised by the Most Merciful God are trees everywhere for obedient sons.

Yes, the “trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation where they are associated with the “curing of the nations” of redeemed mankind. Only obedient ones will remain after the old earthly society of wicked humanity is eliminated from existence, making the way for the “new earth”, ruled by a “new heavens”. (2 Peter 3:13) “The former things have passed away”. (Rev 21:2-4)

Jesus' Death fulfilled the perfect man Adam genomes dying before the flood

Not sure what you mean here...?
The flood was merely a reset because demonic activity on earth had sped up human wickedness and needed to be dealt with so that God could start again with Noah and his family as the faithful ones to begin again......but it wasn’t long before rebellion reared it’s ugly head again with the defection of Nimrod and his cronies at the Tower of Babel.

God used that pre-flood scenario to alert us to world conditions when Christ was to return (Matt 24:37-39)....wickedness was to be rampant, and man’s thoughts would again be mainly focused on evil deeds.......we only have to look at what is chosen to entertain people today, even children are fed a steady diet of violence and immorality, all in the comfort of their own homes since the streets are too dangerous at night to venture outside in many parts of the earth.

We are living in momentous times, when Christ is about to mete out justice to those who have no desire to know God or to do good in the world. We long for the time when evil is no more and the peace and security that God first intended in Eden is brought back to humankind. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[RR144]

Here is the logic
original sin or intrinsic reprobation (my words) or divine curse is refuted by
Deuteronomy 24
16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Therefore to summarize the narrative of Adam's fall -something that was freely given by God the garden of Eden and was lost due to Adams conduct. This was access to the Tree of Life

keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:7

 

[Keiw]

keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:7

Actually God does not hold a Fathers personal sin against their children. It means-Those parents hand the same wicked practices and false god worship to their children to practice, who in turn hand the same to their children. 99% on earth today do that. Satans #1 tool= parents handing wickedness to children. It started with Adam and Eve. He does it like this-2Cor 11:12-15= 99% of all religion on earth is owned and operated by satan.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:7

Moses was about to enter an agreement on behalf the firstborn nation with God. The nation of Israel will receive Favour as a nation and Punishment as a nation. It is not the same as original sin.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Adam stole what belonged to his rightful Sovereign.....it merited the death penalty. Free will was abused with disastrous results for his progeny.
That faulty genetic inheritance was passed onto all of his children through no fault on their part. (Rom 5:12) God sent the ransomer to pay the debt that Adam left for his children, to free them from that slavery to sin and inevitable death.
God’s law and perfect justice was satisfied when a perfect sinless life was offered for the perfect sinless life that Adam deprived his children from inheriting.
But many ask why it is taking God so long to fix all the problems in the world? The answer lies in God’s counting of time. (2 Peter 3:8)
The Creator and his spirit sons do not live on earth and are therefore not restricted to earth years in order to accomplish the goals set by God. For us earth bound humans, it seems to be taking forever to get things sorted, but because rebellion began with a spirit son, much of what God needs to accomplish has to take place in universal time, not earth time. The devil eventually took a third of his brother angels with him in that rebellion, so it’s for the benefit of all his children (both heavenly and earthly) that it is brought to a successful conclusion so that no rebel will ever challenge God’s Sovereignty and ruin his purpose, again.

Agreed. No human can be immortal because of their very nature. They rely on external things to keep living (oxygen, water, food, shelter) so as long as these were supplied, access to the tree of life meant living forever in mortal flesh. Living forever is not immortality because you cannot kill an immortal. If Adam and his wife has been created as immortals, the death penalty would have been meaningless. All of God’s children possess free will and the death penalty will always remain for disobedience. Continued obedience is what will merit everlasting life, as it was in the beginning.

Yes, the “trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation where they are associated with the “curing of the nations” of redeemed mankind. Only obedient ones will remain after the old earthly society of wicked humanity is eliminated from existence, making the way for the “new earth”, ruled by a “new heavens”. (2 Peter 3:13) “The former things have passed away”. (Rev 21:2-4)

Not sure what you mean here...?
The flood was merely a reset because demonic activity on earth had sped up human wickedness and needed to be dealt with so that God could start again with Noah and his family as the faithful ones to begin again......but it wasn’t long before rebellion reared it’s ugly head again with the defection of Nimrod and his cronies at the Tower of Babel.

God used that pre-flood scenario to alert us to world conditions when Christ was to return (Matt 24:37-39)....wickedness was to be rampant, and man’s thoughts would again be mainly focused on evil deeds.......we only have to look at what is chosen to entertain people today, even children are fed a steady diet of violence and immorality, all in the comfort of their own homes since the streets are too dangerous at night to venture outside in many parts of the earth.

We are living in momentous times, when Christ is about to mete out justice to those who have no desire to know God or to do good in the world. We long for the time when evil is no more and the peace and security that God first intended in Eden is brought back to humankind. (Rev 21:2-4)

I think you are paraphrasing the paraphraser!
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Just some flavour.

The 5th seal tells us the reason for the long days of wait.
Revelation 6:9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

All have free will!
Matthew 15:22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.


God is Merciful. It is now a great city not just a garden.!

Book of Enoch should be read as good science fiction of the time but something did happen as
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Noah and family was saved despite the abomination as describe by
Genesis 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Since Adams Fall, murder and mayhem touched the Patriarch line - i.e. Cain, Ham. The Noahide covenant was the agreement beween Party generations of Adam vs The Creator of said perfect Adamic Genome. The Noahide covenant is an eye for an eye. Perfect Genome for perfect Genome. All contracts fulfilled, a new start can begin with the father of eternity meting out dinner invitations to the House of God. , The wonderful counselor advocating for us in front of God. The might of God bending all knees. And last but not least a gift from the peace maker.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think you are paraphrasing the paraphraser!
Sounds perfectly reasonable. Just some flavour.

The “flavor“ is supplied by the scriptures. It’s all about the big picture, not the plethora of individual pixels that many find hard to put together into one overarching theme......the kingdom of God......what it actually is, and what it’s purpose serves in the big picture.

The 5th seal tells us the reason for the long days of wait.
Revelation 6:9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

God’s justice must be served…..those martyred for their faith will be rewarded....but this is a symbolic picture...those “souls” have not been stuck under the alter for hundreds of years whining about injustice....God’s promises will be fulfilled when his Kingdom rules redeemed mankind. These have been sleeping (resting) in death, awaiting the call to come up to their new home with Christ in heaven.

All have free will!
Matthew 15:22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Interesting side note to that passage…..the Canaananite woman displayed faith in Jesus who at first did not answer her because he was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” but Jesus detected her strong faith, so he said that the bread that belonged to the children (Israel) was not to be cast to “dogs” (unbelieving Gentiles) yet the word used here is not just describing “dogs” in a derogatory way, but it means “little dogs” or “puppies” which could have been a reference to the fact that dogs were unclean animals in Israel, but Gentiles commonly had them as pets. These would sit by a dining table waiting for some food scraps to fall.

Jesus knew that Gentiles would be brought into the Christian arrangement but not until after his death. Israel was to be given first places among the elect. Peter was used to go to the house of Cornelius and baptize his household. The holy spirit was already in evidence, so Peter did not delay in doing so. These were the first Gentiles baptized as “Christians” who did not first need to be converted to Judaism.

Book of Enoch should be read as good science fiction of the time but something did happen as
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Yes, those rebel angels materialized human form and cohabited with women on earth to produce a hybrid race of gigantic bullies, (“Nephilim”, meaning fellers of men) violent in nature and their fathers also violent and sex crazed. They took any woman they wanted from all accounts. Wickedness escalated at such a rate that God had to act to curb the violence and immorality so that his purpose could be fulfilled according to his own timeline. The flood scenario provided prophetic details for the future. (Matt24:37-39)

Noah and family was saved despite the abomination as describe by
Genesis 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. 10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Shame about the archaic English….you lose so much in that dead language. “It repented the LORD“ ?
God does not repent because he has nothing to be guilty about. He expressed regret, which in this situation makes sense. He did not create other living creatures for them to behave so badly.
Do we see the correlation between this situation and God not wanting humans to ”know good and evil” for themselves originally? Had the first humans simply obeyed their Creator, no evil thing would ever have been experienced by mankind……nothing would have spoiled the beautiful paradise that God wanted to be extended to include the whole world. I don’t think most people understand what we lost and what will be given back to us.
This is why he had no compunction in taking all the pre-flood perpetrators out of existence, saving the only righteous people in existence......to start again and to bring his purpose back on track.

The Noahide covenant is an eye for an eye. Perfect Genome for perfect Genome. All contracts fulfilled, a new start can begin with the father of eternity meting out dinner invitations to the House of God. , The wonderful counselor advocating for us in front of God. The might of God bending all knees. And last but not least a gift from the peace maker.

You got it…..Perfect life was thrown away by the first human father, creating an inheritance for his children that required a redeemer. To understand redemption, we need to know what the redemption laws in Israel meant. If a man owed a debt to someone and could not pay it, the debt could be paid by his children, put to work on his behalf to help pay the debt, and if the man died, his debt was passed to his children until it was completely paid off. Adam left a debt for his children that no man could pay…..no perfect sinless human existed that could give his life to pay Adam’s debt. So God sent his precious son in human form….perfect and sinless, to buy back what Adam forfeited for all his progeny. What a gift of unselfish love Christ Jesus paid to ensure that his Father’s purpose for our being here on this planet could be fulfilled. And to ensure Rev 21:2-4 will be our reality.

 

[Jack]

The “flavor“ is supplied by the scriptures. It’s all about the big picture, not the plethora of individual pixels that many find hard to put together into one overarching theme......the kingdom of God......what it actually is, and what it’s purpose serves in the big picture.

God’s justice must be served…..those martyred for their faith will be rewarded....but this is a symbolic picture...those “souls” have not been stuck under the alter for hundreds of years whining about injustice....God’s promises will be fulfilled when his Kingdom rules redeemed mankind. These have been sleeping (resting) in death, awaiting the call to come up to their new home with Christ in heaven.

Interesting side note to that passage…..the Canaananite woman displayed faith in Jesus who at first did not answer her because he was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” but Jesus detected her strong faith, so he said that the bread that belonged to the children (Israel) was not to be cast to “dogs” (unbelieving Gentiles) yet the word used here is not just describing “dogs” in a derogatory way, but it means “little dogs” or “puppies” which could have been a reference to the fact that dogs were unclean animals in Israel, but Gentiles commonly had them as pets. These would sit by a dining table waiting for some food scraps to fall.

Jesus knew that Gentiles would be brought into the Christian arrangement but not until after his death. Israel was to be given first places among the elect. Peter was used to go to the house of Cornelius and baptize his household. The holy spirit was already in evidence, so Peter did not delay in doing so. These were the first Gentiles baptized as “Christians” who did not first need to be converted to Judaism.

Yes, those rebel angels materialized human form and cohabited with women on earth to produce a hybrid race of gigantic bullies, (“Nephilim”, meaning fellers of men) violent in nature and their fathers also violent and sex crazed. They took any woman they wanted from all accounts. Wickedness escalated at such a rate that God had to act to curb the violence and immorality so that his purpose could be fulfilled according to his own timeline. The flood scenario provided prophetic details for the future. (Matt24:37-39)

Shame about the archaic English….you lose so much in that dead language. “It repented the LORD“ ?
God does not repent because he has nothing to be guilty about. He expressed regret, which in this situation makes sense. He did not create other living creatures for them to behave so badly.
Do we see the correlation between this situation and God not wanting humans to ”know good and evil” for themselves originally? Had the first humans simply obeyed their Creator, no evil thing would ever have been experienced by mankind……nothing would have spoiled the beautiful paradise that God wanted to be extended to include the whole world. I don’t think most people understand what we lost and what will be given back to us.
This is why he had no compunction in taking all the pre-flood perpetrators out of existence, saving the only righteous people in existence......to start again and to bring his purpose back on track.

You got it…..Perfect life was thrown away by the first human father, creating an inheritance for his children that required a redeemer. To understand redemption, we need to know what the redemption laws in Israel meant. If a man owed a debt to someone and could not pay it, the debt could be paid by his children, put to work on his behalf to help pay the debt, and if the man died, his debt was passed to his children until it was completely paid off. Adam left a debt for his children that no man could pay…..no perfect sinless human existed that could give his life to pay Adam’s debt. So God sent his precious son in human form….perfect and sinless, to buy back what Adam forfeited for all his progeny. What a gift of unselfish love Christ Jesus paid to ensure that his Father’s purpose for our being here on this planet could be fulfilled. And to ensure Rev 21:2-4 will be our reality.

Says someone who doesn't even believe Jesus is God!

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

The “flavor“ is supplied by the scriptures. It’s all about the big picture, not the plethora of individual pixels that many find hard to put together into one overarching theme......the kingdom of God......what it actually is, and what it’s purpose serves in the big picture.

God’s justice must be served…..those martyred for their faith will be rewarded....but this is a symbolic picture...those “souls” have not been stuck under the alter for hundreds of years whining about injustice....God’s promises will be fulfilled when his Kingdom rules redeemed mankind. These have been sleeping (resting) in death, awaiting the call to come up to their new home with Christ in heaven.

Interesting side note to that passage…..the Canaananite woman displayed faith in Jesus who at first did not answer her because he was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” but Jesus detected her strong faith, so he said that the bread that belonged to the children (Israel) was not to be cast to “dogs” (unbelieving Gentiles) yet the word used here is not just describing “dogs” in a derogatory way, but it means “little dogs” or “puppies” which could have been a reference to the fact that dogs were unclean animals in Israel, but Gentiles commonly had them as pets. These would sit by a dining table waiting for some food scraps to fall.

Jesus knew that Gentiles would be brought into the Christian arrangement but not until after his death. Israel was to be given first places among the elect. Peter was used to go to the house of Cornelius and baptize his household. The holy spirit was already in evidence, so Peter did not delay in doing so. These were the first Gentiles baptized as “Christians” who did not first need to be converted to Judaism.

Yes, those rebel angels materialized human form and cohabited with women on earth to produce a hybrid race of gigantic bullies, (“Nephilim”, meaning fellers of men) violent in nature and their fathers also violent and sex crazed. They took any woman they wanted from all accounts. Wickedness escalated at such a rate that God had to act to curb the violence and immorality so that his purpose could be fulfilled according to his own timeline. The flood scenario provided prophetic details for the future. (Matt24:37-39)

Shame about the archaic English….you lose so much in that dead language. “It repented the LORD“ ?
God does not repent because he has nothing to be guilty about. He expressed regret, which in this situation makes sense. He did not create other living creatures for them to behave so badly.
Do we see the correlation between this situation and God not wanting humans to ”know good and evil” for themselves originally? Had the first humans simply obeyed their Creator, no evil thing would ever have been experienced by mankind……nothing would have spoiled the beautiful paradise that God wanted to be extended to include the whole world. I don’t think most people understand what we lost and what will be given back to us.
This is why he had no compunction in taking all the pre-flood perpetrators out of existence, saving the only righteous people in existence......to start again and to bring his purpose back on track.

You got it…..Perfect life was thrown away by the first human father, creating an inheritance for his children that required a redeemer. To understand redemption, we need to know what the redemption laws in Israel meant. If a man owed a debt to someone and could not pay it, the debt could be paid by his children, put to work on his behalf to help pay the debt, and if the man died, his debt was passed to his children until it was completely paid off. Adam left a debt for his children that no man could pay…..no perfect sinless human existed that could give his life to pay Adam’s debt. So God sent his precious son in human form….perfect and sinless, to buy back what Adam forfeited for all his progeny. What a gift of unselfish love Christ Jesus paid to ensure that his Father’s purpose for our being here on this planet could be fulfilled. And to ensure Rev 21:2-4 will be our reality.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Jack]

Unbelievers LOVE "symbolic" when they don't like what God said!