Who did Jesus Die a Ransom for?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
7,068
3,889
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Well not quite Jane. We believe Jesus died for Adam, and in redeeming Adam, he redeems all those who come from Adam's loins, namely the world of mankind.
Cannot agree there.....Adam's children had no choice but to be born with inherited sin, so Christ came to redeem Adam's children....there can be no redemption for Adam and his wife who had no inherited imperfection to blame for their disobedience. It was willful and deliberate and he was responsible for the death of all of his offspring, making him accountable as a manslayer and complicite along with the devil, because the devil could never have become a manslayer without being aided an abetted by Adam. The woman was deceived....but Adam wasn't, so it was his actions that condemned his children. He is not forgivable because Jesus did not die to save the murderer.
1 Timothy 2:6 tells us Jesus gave himself a "ransom for all".

The ransom is anti-lutron, according to Strong's is 487 - "a redemption price. - ransom, corresponding to, instead of/exchange"
Yes, a ransom is payment for the return of something valuable. In our case, the value had to be equivalent.....'a sinless life for a sinless life'.
This is also the principle behind redemption. How the redemption laws worked in Israel showed how someone in debt could be released from the servitude it demanded, if the debt could not be paid. A generous benefactor could pay the debt and free the person from servitude to the creditor. If his children were also in servitude which happened when the debt was large, they too could go free.
Through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and through one man (Jesus) salvation came to all. Of course in the end, they will ALL have to prove themselves during the millennial reign, having a chance as the first pair had in the garden before sin entered the world. This time they will die for their own sins and not the sins of Adam, since Jesus would have wiped Adamic sin off the slate.
Cannot agree with that because the 'separation of the sheep and the goats' happens before the millennium begins. The goats fail to support Christ's "brothers" who are still in the flesh. So they are bound for the place that God has reserved for the devil and his demons, but who will only go to that place of no return after the final test at the end of the thousand year reign of the Kingdom.

Matt 25:31-36; 40...
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world."

Then he identifies why some are counted as "sheep" and others are "goats"...
"For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ . . . .

‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’"


So the sheep are those who supported Christ's brothers on earth, and he counts those acts as being done to himself.....but the goats, do the opposite...they fail to support Christ's "brothers" because they don't believe that they are Christ's brothers, and so do not warrant such treatment.
When they ask how they had failed, Jesus says to the goats....
"‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

So not all who are alive today professing to be Christians, will pass that separation on the right side. (Matt 7:21-23) "Everlasting cutting off" means eternal death.
 
J

Johann

Guest
Do you really think that God is as primitive and as barbaric......almost a simpleton, as you've described him?
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

that believeth on: Joh_3:15-16, Joh_1:12, Joh_5:24, Joh_6:47-54, Joh_10:28; Hab_2:4; Rom_1:17, Rom_8:1; 1Jn_3:14-15; 1Jn_5:10-13

see: Joh_3:3, Joh_8:51; Num_32:11; Job_33:28; Psa_36:9, Psa_49:19, Psa_106:4-5; Luk_2:30, Luk_3:6; Rom_8:24-25; Rev_21:8
but: Psa_2:12; Rom_1:18, Rom_4:15, Rom_5:9; Gal_3:10; Eph_5:6; 1Th_1:10, 1Th_5:9; Heb_2:3; Heb_10:29; Rev_6:16-17



Take it up with the Author of the Scriptures.
Johann.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rwb and Keturah
J

Johann

Guest
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

that believeth on: Joh_3:15-16, Joh_1:12, Joh_5:24, Joh_6:47-54, Joh_10:28; Hab_2:4; Rom_1:17, Rom_8:1; 1Jn_3:14-15; 1Jn_5:10-13

see: Joh_3:3, Joh_8:51; Num_32:11; Job_33:28; Psa_36:9, Psa_49:19, Psa_106:4-5; Luk_2:30, Luk_3:6; Rom_8:24-25; Rev_21:8
but: Psa_2:12; Rom_1:18, Rom_4:15, Rom_5:9; Gal_3:10; Eph_5:6; 1Th_1:10, 1Th_5:9; Heb_2:3; Heb_10:29; Rev_6:16-17



Take it up with the Author of the Scriptures.
Johann.
Spotted @Keturah-much appreciated dear sister.
Johann.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah

Keturah

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2022
1,335
1,529
113
Here
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Johann
The truth is  ALL that stands, no matter those who speak for or against it.

To the OP, Jesus died, was buried, rose again, ascended to the Father that any & all who believe on him, repent of their sins, confess him before ALL & the Father would be partakers, joint heirs with him. Having that, we then may have life here & have it more abundantly. The bonus is the hope of the promise of an eternal life in mansions prepared for us in God's heavenly kingdom !
 
  • Love
Reactions: Johann

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,877
8,795
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

that believeth on: Joh_3:15-16, Joh_1:12, Joh_5:24, Joh_6:47-54, Joh_10:28; Hab_2:4; Rom_1:17, Rom_8:1; 1Jn_3:14-15; 1Jn_5:10-13

see: Joh_3:3, Joh_8:51; Num_32:11; Job_33:28; Psa_36:9, Psa_49:19, Psa_106:4-5; Luk_2:30, Luk_3:6; Rom_8:24-25; Rev_21:8
but: Psa_2:12; Rom_1:18, Rom_4:15, Rom_5:9; Gal_3:10; Eph_5:6; 1Th_1:10, 1Th_5:9; Heb_2:3; Heb_10:29; Rev_6:16-17



Take it up with the Author of the Scriptures.
Johann.
what do you hope to achieve by posting a plate full of scriptures Johann? Is it that the more you quote, the more clout you think your position has?
 
J

Johann

Guest
what do you hope to achieve by posting a plate full of scriptures Johann? Is it that the more you quote, the more clout you think your position has?
I love the Scriptures-and the truth/aleithia as it stands written-where would you find truth if there is selective reading?
Some have a strong aversion to Scriptures-understandably-Phos exposes skotia.

Nothing you say about me is going to solicit a reaction from me-you say-"God is ALL love" but you cut out the orge parts of a holy God-which is PRESENTLY abiding on all unbelievers-Let every man be found a liar and let God alone be justified in all His D'varim and attributes.

Now if you want to say anything worthwhile-without sarcasm-let's do it-or forever hold your peace friend.


Shalom
Johann
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,877
8,795
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I love the Scriptures-and the truth/aleithia as it stands written-where would you find truth if there is selective reading?
Some have a strong aversion to Scriptures-understandably-Phos exposes skotia.

Nothing you say about me is going to solicit a reaction from me-you say-"God is ALL love" but you cut out the orge parts of a holy God-which is PRESENTLY abiding on all unbelievers-Let every man be found a liar and let God alone be justified in all His D'varim and attributes.

Now if you want to say anything worthwhile-without sarcasm-let's do it-or forever hold your peace friend.


Shalom
Johann
You make claims about what I believe which just aren't true, yet you insist on your assumptions....why is that?
Quoting scripture is no indication of loving the truth.....any nutter can and does do it.
Didn't they condemn Jesus quoting scripture?
 
J

Johann

Guest
You make claims about what I believe which just aren't true, yet you insist on your assumptions....why is that?
Quoting scripture is no indication of loving the truth.....any nutter can and does do it.
Didn't they condemn Jesus quoting scripture?
Listen friend-let's stop right here-I have a peaceful Sunday-and I want to keep it peaceful.
Shalom
Johann.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,877
8,795
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Listen friend-let's stop right here-I have a peaceful Sunday-and I want to keep it peaceful.
Shalom
Johann.
all peace to you Johann, but why should or would that stop you if you have a love for truth?
 
J

Johann

Guest
all peace to you Johann, but why should or would that stop you if you have a love for truth?
I am tired of this line of reasoning-

-------------------------------------------

what do you hope to achieve by posting a plate full of scriptures Johann? Is it that the more you quote, the more clout you think your position has?

---------------------------------------------------

Others may benefit from it-and learn, grow in the Da'as of Christ Jesus-you don't.

For Hashem giveth chochmah; out of His Peh (mouth) cometh da'as (knowledge) and tevunah (understanding).

Shalom
Johann.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,877
8,795
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I am tired of this line of reasoning-

-------------------------------------------

what do you hope to achieve by posting a plate full of scriptures Johann? Is it that the more you quote, the more clout you think your position has?

---------------------------------------------------

Others may benefit from it-and learn, grow in the Da'as of Christ Jesus-you don't.

For Hashem giveth chochmah; out of His Peh (mouth) cometh da'as (knowledge) and tevunah (understanding).

Shalom
Johann.
yet you are not tired of writing 'reams' of Hebrew/Greek analysis which very few understand.....which you must know.....so why do you do it?....to put your 'superior' understanding forward?......yet you are tired of simple direct honest engagement?....hmmmm
 

Bob Estey

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2021
5,788
3,127
113
72
Sparks, Nevada
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay, I'll pretend to be an Ethiopian Eunuch and ask you, "all knowing one": “How can I, unless someone guides me?”
"All Knowing One." I like that.

The Lord will guide you. Pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:17).
 
J

Johann

Guest
yet you are not tired of writing 'reams' of Hebrew/Greek analysis which very few understand.....which you must know.....so why do you do it?....to put your 'superior' understanding forward?......yet you are tired of simple direct honest engagement?....hmmmm
It is 1:19 AM right now-and I am dealing with a twister complaining I quite too much Scripture-and what I do post is readable-so readable that even @marks can understand and my sister @Keturah-you are envious, that's your problem.
Any further nonsensical complaints-on ignore you go-that's a promise.

Shalom
Johann.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and marks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,123
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is 1:19 AM right now-and I am dealing with a twister complaining I quite too much Scripture-and what I do post is readable-so readable that even @marks can understand and my sister @Keturah-you are envious, that's your problem.
Any further nonsensical complaints-on ignore you go-that's a promise.

Shalom
Johann.
Make no mistake, I really appreciate what you post!

Much love!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and Johann

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,123
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
yet you are not tired of writing 'reams' of Hebrew/Greek analysis which very few understand.....which you must know.....so why do you do it?....to put your 'superior' understanding forward?......yet you are tired of simple direct honest engagement?....hmmmm
If you don't feel you benefit, just skip it. Why should this be a problem to you?

Much love!
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Keturah and Johann
J

Johann

Guest
Make no mistake, I really appreciate what you post!

Much love!
I love your heart and constant encouragement brother-I am learning so much and have a desire to share with others that they too might be edified-and here you see for yourself what I'm dealing with.
God bless and shalom to you and precious family.
Johann.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and marks

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,877
8,795
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I love your heart and constant encouragement brother-I am learning so much and have a desire to share with others that they too might be edified-and here you see for yourself what I'm dealing with.
God bless and shalom to you and precious family.
Johann.
Compliments and or flattery is no gauge as to the validity of anything. We all love acceptance, even criminals.....does that justify anything?
Engaging in good judgement is what is called for.......Jesus makes that clear!