Who is Jesus Christ?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

WHO IS JESUS CHRIST

It seems to me that everyone seems to believe that people should deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that God sent to the world of mankind. People instead say people must believe it was God who came to the world of mankind and became human like the first man Adam was human when God created him. I think people can think what they want but I'll never deny that it was The Only Begotten Son of God who The Only True God sent to the world of mankind. It was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human like the first man Adam not God. John 3:16 tells us that The True God loved the World of mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind so that whoever exercises faith in him will not perish but have eternal life.
1John 4:9 tells us that John called the person who is The Only Begotten Son of God, the Only Begotten Son of God before he became human. The scriptures at Philippians 2:5-8 tells us that the Only Begotten Son of God was in God form while he was in heaven before he became human. So I'm going to continue to believe that it's the Only Begotten Son of God who Jesus is. The person known as the Only Begotten Son of God was in heaven before coming to the world of mankind and he was the Only Begotten Son of God when he was on the world of mankind he was the Only Begotten Son of God and now that he has been resurrected from the dead he is still the Only Begotten Son of God. The True God has resurrected him to a higher position of authority he was given immortality

 

[marks]

Can you admit Jesus said that God selected him, sent him, told him what to say and he does only the will of God ?

Well of course!

 

[marks]

No! The Word of God was put in the mouth of a prophet God chose. You don’t seem to understand Deuteronomy 18.

Um . . . John actually wrote something a little different, The Word became flesh and lived among us. Not that The Word was put into the prophet's mouth, as the prophet lived among us.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 KJV
15) The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16) According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17) And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 8:56-58 KJV
56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:13-14 KJV
13) And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Genesis 18:1 KJV
And the YHWH appeared unto him (Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Much love!

 

[marks]

Given that you are imposing trinitarian dogma onto unitarian text,

You keep saying that, but I don't see where I'm imposing anything. I'm pointing to what is written.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Um . . . John actually wrote something a little different,

Right. Deutoronomy is literal. John 1 is figurative.

 

[Wrangler]

You keep saying that, but I don't see where I'm imposing anything. I'm pointing to what is written.

Much love!

No. Jesus is not in John 1:1.

 

[marks]

Right. Deutoronomy is literal. John 1 is figurative.

Figurative? No. Descriptive.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Figurative? No. Descriptive.

Much love!

No. Figurative. Beings are not words.

 

[marks]

No. Figurative. Beings are not words.

Think, Logos.

 

[Brakelite]

"Death" does not mean "cease to exist".

I did not say God is evil. Stop lying!

I'll stick with what Jesus taught.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I cannot help but wonder with astonishment at your determination to put God in the worst light. All the scriptures you use to support a supposed eternal torment have been explained to you in another perspective... In another context which you refuse to acknowledge. Why is that? Why the determination to make of God a tyrant despite renderings of scripture that explains Him as merciful and just? What is so essential in eternal torment that makes it completely indispensable to Christian doctrine? Why are the numerous scriptures throughout the Bible that describe the destiny of the wicked as being destroyed, so repugnant to you? Again. What is it with you that you want to paint God in such a character of cruelty and evil? Why is it that a man attempting to torture people for as long as possible is so evil, but with God is righteous? Please explain.

 

[Enoch111]

Right. Deutoronomy is literal. John 1 is figurative.

That's a neat dodge but it won't hold up to careful scrutiny.

 

[Brakelite]

I agree with everything you said up to this point...

The True God has resurrected him to a higher position of authority he was given immortality

Throughout creation like begets like. Cows beget cows. Dolphins beget dolphins. Flies beget flies. Mosquitoes beget mosquitoes. Tigers beget tigers. However, there are certain tricks one can play to make a different animal...a lion mated with a tiger begets a liger. This doesn't however upset the natural order of Genesis as God established it. Kind begets kind. Cats do not beget dogs. Fish do not beget ducks.
You correctly state that Jesus, even before the incarnation, was God's begotten Son. That way back in timeless eternity, before creation... Before angels ever existed... Jesus (although not His name then) was God's only begotten Son. But like begets like. Good of course can create anything He wishes. God can create a duck. A man. An angel. A bug. But begetting something... Someone... Is a whole different ball game... If the Father God begets someone, who He begets can only be God. Like begets like. The Son is not a created being. He was begotten. He came forth from the Father's own substance.. His own nature... And thus when He came as a human it could still be said of the Son that He was the express image of the Father. This could not be said of my offspring. My sons are not the express image of me. There are certain similarities but one can tell them apart from me and from each other. That's because created beings such as animals and human do not produce perfect offspring. With God however, everything and anything He does is perfect. The Son is God begotten.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I agree with everything you said up to this point...
Throughout creation like begets like. Cows beget cows. Dolphins beget dolphins. Flies beget flies. Mosquitoes beget mosquitoes. Tigers beget tigers. However, there are certain tricks one can play to make a different animal...a lion mated with a tiger begets a liger. This doesn't however upset the natural order of Genesis as God established it. Kind begets kind. Cats do not beget dogs. Fish do not beget ducks.
You correctly state that Jesus, even before the incarnation, was God's begotten Son. That way back in timeless eternity, before creation... Before angels ever existed... Jesus (although not His name then) was God's only begotten Son. But like begets like. Good of course can create anything He wishes. God can create a duck. A man. An angel. A bug. But begetting something... Someone... Is a whole different ball game... If the Father God begets someone, who He begets can only be God. Like begets like. The Son is not a created being. He was begotten. He came forth from the Father's own substance.. His own nature... And thus when He came as a human it could still be said of the Son that He was the express image of the Father. This could not be said of my offspring. My sons are not the express image of me. There are certain similarities but one can tell them apart from me and from each other. That's because created beings such as animals and human do not produce perfect offspring. With God however, everything and anything He does is perfect. The Son is God begotten.

Actually the only Begotten Son of God is a created being, the scriptures show us that. Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:15

 

[Hidden In Him]

During this time of year, many think about Jesus and what he gave for us, but who is he really?

He's a very nice Guy, and my friend.

 

[Amazed@grace]

I am not familiar with that sir, do you have scriptural support for that?

Read John 1 verses 1 & 14.

 

[Brakelite]

Actually the only Begotten Son of God is a created being, the scriptures show us that. Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:15

Like all JWs, you misunderstand some truths and misapply them. You correctly see that the Son was subject to the Father in all things. You correctly see that the Son was given all authority, and that the Son was limited in His understanding of future events... Unable on His own to work miracles... And not having His own independence but doing only what He was instructed by His Father. You see these things, but make some wrong assumptions as to why these things are so.
KJV Philippians 2:6-8
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Equal with God? Even the Jews recognised that in claiming to be the Son of God (not a son such as created angels are... Not a son as adopted redeemed are) but a literal begotten offspring and Son who by rightful inheritance received everything in His very nature that belongs also to the Father. That is, all His Divine attributes. And those Divine attributes... His omnipresence... Omnipotence... Omniscience, He deliberately laid aside that He could become one of His own creation, a man with all the inherited liabilities and limitations that the flesh had burdened the human with since Adam.
After the resurrection, He once again took His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, having had His great sacrifice accepted. Nevertheless, the Son of the Almighty will always be a man. The sacrifice He made for humanity was more than simply taking man's punishment for sin.
The only thing that the Son lacks when compared with His Father is rank. Which alone destroys the traditional concept of trinity and all the church originated creeds and dogmas and associated curses upon all who would dare disagree with them.

 

[Brakelite]

Like all JWs, you misunderstand some truths and misapply them. You correctly see that the Son was subject to the Father in all things. You correctly see that the Son was given all authority, and that the Son was limited in His understanding of future events... Unable on His own to work miracles... And not having His own independence but doing only what He was instructed by His Father. You see these things, but make some wrong assumptions as to why these things are so.
KJV Philippians 2:6-8
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Equal with God? Even the Jews recognised that in claiming to be the Son of God (not a son such as created angels are... Not a son as adopted redeemed are) but a literal begotten offspring and Son who by rightful inheritance received everything in His very nature that belongs also to the Father. That is, all His Divine attributes. And those Divine attributes... His omnipresence... Omnipotence... Omniscience, He deliberately laid aside that He could become one of His own creation, a man with all the inherited liabilities and limitations that the flesh had burdened the human with since Adam.
After the resurrection, He once again took His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, having had His great sacrifice accepted. Nevertheless, the Son of the Almighty will always be a man. The sacrifice He made for humanity was more than simply taking man's punishment for sin.
The only thing that the Son lacks when compared with His Father is rank. Which alone destroys the traditional concept of trinity and all the church originated creeds and dogmas and associated curses upon all who would dare disagree with them.

Please forgive me however if I sound to anyone reading this that I am being adamant and deterministic in this perspective... Like everyone else on this thread, I read scripture and take from it my understanding in accordance to conscience. I'm always open to anyone who can teach me from scripture any error on my part. Far be it from me to expect of others to be teachable and flexible and not be so myself right?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Bible says clearly that Johns baptism was for repentance, yet Jesus had no sins to repent of, that’s why John was reluctant to baptize Jesus, and said Jesus should baptize himself instead.

Yes sir, I fully agree.

 

[Robert Gwin]

If Jesus were "the greatest man who ever lived", but nonetheless just a man, what would give him the right to give his own life in behalf of others? Wouldn't his own life be only for him?

Much love!

You hit the nail on the head Marks! No ordinary man could redeem mankind. Why? Because there had to be a "corresponding ransom" an equal ransom. No sinful human could redeem what the perfect man Adam lost for us. That is why Jehovah sent Jesus, since Jehovah was his Father, then there was no inherited sin in him, and since he did not sin, his life could buy back what Adam lost, life. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul, God's law.
(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.


Thanks sir for asking

 

[Robert Gwin]

Exactly right! Jesus is not God but was selected by God, sent by God and said only what God told him to say. Then God raised this man from the dead. Then God have this man all authority.

You know Wrangler that verse is to me the strangest verse in the Bible, It actually said Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, isn't that strange sir. I could understand Jehovah our God is one God, but the Bible definitely should be translated as it appeared, we certainly wouldn't want to be the one to alter it.