Who is : "Made perfect"

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Being born again, is to be recreated exactly as 1st Adam was, regarding relationship with God.
See..
""God is A Spirit", and we are a SPIRIT inside a BODY.... The BODY is not the real us. The body is the container of the SPIRIT that is the REAL us, that God sees.
So, when we are "born again"< we become re-joined to God, = Spiritually....... This is "spiritual union" regained, that Adam lost.
See that?

"Born again" = SPIRITUALLY, ... is to become 'in Christ', as "one with God", who is ""A Spirit"

This is why the NT tells us that we are "seated in Heavenly Places, in Christ"..... right now..
This is why the NT tells us that "as Jesus IS.... so are the born again.... in this world".

The problem that most believers have, is that they dont see themselves as a "born again" Spirit, that is the "Child of God".

They see, body and their thinking as the "Christian" ,and neither is the Christian. So, because they see themselves as "how i think i am", instead of "born again Spiritually", they end up trying to do this and confess that, and live this way, and try to be good enough....when in fact, they are already "made righteous" and have become "ONE with God"..... if they are BORN AGAIN, and water can't do that for you.

And this revelation, of who we have become "in Christ", when we get it, is the very first day our actual discipleship has started, as until we understand who we have BECOME, "in Christ"... as BORN AGAIN.. then the person's mind is wrong, faith is wrong, and their walk with God is not correct.

The question is not... "who do i think i am as a believer"... the question is....>"Who does GOD say i have become, as a born again SPIRIT".

See that?
If you can come to that revelation, then you have "worked our your Salvation" as to do that, is to understand what it means to have become ..."The Righteousness of GOD..... in Christ".



Your verse, is directed at HEBREWS... who are unbelievers... in those verses.
So, when someone tries to use this verse and Chapter 6, against you, to try to make you believe you can lose your salvation, then take them to Acts 28:28, and find the Same Apostle Paul, talking to this same Group, of HEBREWS, and He explains that he is finished trying to lead them to their Messiah... and will now go to the Gentiles "who will hear the Gospel"

So, the final answer is this..

"God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us".... because "Jesus is the ONE TIME ETERNAL SACRIFICE for Sin".

See that?

Jesus has your sin. Jesus died for them ALL.. and this death is an ETERNAL Sacrifice for them = ALL.

Yes, i know that cults teach that "only the sin you committed before you are saved, are forgiven".

But im not that cult, and you wanted to understand the Gift of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus.
So, there it is.

Sorry to be so dense on this..... I first must say I understand perfectly what you have said...

but call it a nocturnal visit, perhaps, of the liar of liars... into my mind...what is not clear is...

(And I hate to belabor things... but if I am not clear, then there will be other readers who also not clear.)

Being born again, is to be recreated exactly as 1st Adam was, regarding relationship with God.
See..
""God is A Spirit", and we are a SPIRIT inside a BODY.... The BODY is not the real us. The body is the container of the SPIRIT that is the REAL us, that God sees.
So, when we are "born again"< we become re-joined to God, = Spiritually....... This is "spiritual union" regained, that Adam lost.
See that?

"Born again" = SPIRITUALLY, ... is to become 'in Christ', as "one with God", who is ""A Spirit"

This as stated is 100% clear because it is our spirits that are what gets born again and not the flesh.

THIS IS CORRECT to my understanding...

I , had always equated being born again as being saved. Am I wrong? IOW....

If our spirits are one are they or are they not saved?

As written, you suggest the mortal flesh body is not part of this. Correct?

I can see this as being true... but what I do not understand is what happens if our carnal flesh sins after our spirits are born again.?????????????????

For lusts, and desires, and natural cycles do not disappear , and people will be tempted and perhaps partake of things they should not...

Does this mean they never were born again or they are no longer born again for the flesh is week is a truism that cannot be ignored.

If God no longer remembers our sin because of the shed blood of Jesus... then what happens when our bodies betray our own spirits?

 

[Behold]

I , had always equated being born again as being saved. Am I wrong? IOW....

Being "saved"... from what?

From this.

John 3:36

If our spirits are one are they or are they not saved?

Our spirit becomes "born again", and that means it becomes "one with God" "In Christ'.

God the Holy Spirit birth's our spirit into Himself.... ("God is a Spirit"), and being born ...again....... is to be birthed by the Spirit of God into the Spirit of God., as "one with God" "in Christ".

As written, you suggest the mortal flesh body is not part of this. Correct?

The mortal body is "dead because of sin", and is not born again.
The believer, who is born again, will get a new body.
The one you are wearing is going into a hole in the ground, unless you have them cremate it.
Have you decided on that choice yet?

I can see this as being true... but what I do not understand is what happens if our carnal flesh sins after our spirits are born again.?????????????????

Sin is found when Law is in dominion.

So, "where there is no law, there is no Sin, no Transgression".

The deed can be the same deed, but its not judged now by the LAW, regarding the CHRISTian.

= "For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. """

2 Corinthians 5:19

For lusts, and desires, and natural cycles do not disappear , and people will be tempted and perhaps partake of things they should not...

It'll disappear to the point that it wont have any effect on you.
This is "sin consciousness" being removed, once you begin to understand who you are "in Christ" as "made righteous".

See that? That is the effect of understanding what it means to have become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

Getting that perspective, brings your mind and God's mind into alignment regarding how God sees all the born again, at all times.
This is the "renewing of your mind"., that Paul explains.

Does this mean they never were born again or they are no longer born again for the flesh is week is a truism that cannot be ignored.

Its means they are not seeing themselves as the "new creation in Christ", and that is because their mind is carnal, and the carnal mind does not agree with God, even if the person is God's born again.

Romans 8: 7-9

If God no longer remembers our sin because of the shed blood of Jesus... then what happens when our bodies betray our own spirits?

Your "body is dead because of sin" and is going to die.

That is what is going to happen, unless you are Raptured, first.

See that "death" that is coming for you?
Hebrews 9:27

That is the result of Adam's fall., that is the death of our body.
God didn't resolve that on the Cross.
Instead, we get a NEW Body.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Being "saved"... from what?

From this.

John 3:36




Our spirit becomes "born again", and that means it becomes "one with God" "In Christ'.

God the Holy Spirit birth's our spirit into Himself.... ("God is a Spirit"), and being born ...again....... is to be birthed by the Spirit of God into the Spirit of God., as "one with God" "in Christ".




The mortal body is "dead because of sin", and is not born again.
The believer, who is born again, will get a new body.
The one you are wearing is going into a hole in the ground, unless you have them cremate it.
Have you decided on that choice yet?



Sin is found when Law is in dominion.

So, "where there is no law, there is no Sin, no Transgression".

The deed can be the same deed, but its not judged now by the LAW, regarding the CHRISTian.

= "For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. """

2 Corinthians 5:19







See that? That is the effect of understanding what it means to have become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

Getting that perspective, brings your mind and God's mind into alignment regarding how God sees all the born again, at all times.
This is the "renewing of your mind"., that Paul explains.




Its means they are not seeing themselves as the "new creation in Christ", and that is because their mind is carnal, and the carnal mind does not agree with God, even if the person is God's born again.

Romans 8: 7-9




Your "body is dead because of sin" and is going to die.

That is what is going to happen, unless you are Raptured, first.

See that "death" that is coming for you?
Hebrews 9:27

That is the result of Adam's fall., that is the death of our body.
God didn't resolve that on the Cross.
Instead, we get a NEW Body.

Saved from... Damnation, Hell, or Extinction which ever.

Yes, I understand we get the new body .

Buried.

What I dont understand is

"It'll disappear to the point that it wont have any effect on you.
This is "sin consciousness" being removed, once you begin to understand who you are "in Christ" as "made righteous"."

How long does that take?

What I do know is that I have not known of any "man" who had to remain unmarried by choice or foreced on him ever had that disappear from his mind. You understand what I am saying?

So,assuming this man is spiritually born again how does he handle his life not offensively to God until the desires leave him?

 

[Behold]

"It'll disappear to the point that it wont have any effect on you.

2nd Corinthians 5:19, & Romans 4:8

A.) God does not charge sin to the born again.

Why?

Because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us", as "The one time eternal sacrifice for sin"

B.) ""Where there is no LAW.... there is no SIN"

The Born again are """NOT.... UNDER... THE.... LAW" = no law.

why?

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW........for righteousness....to everyone who BELIEVES".

So, when you are born again, this means you have BELIEVED, and that means God has given you the "gift of Righteousness".

This is "sin consciousness" being removed, once you begin to understand who you are "in Christ" as "made righteous"."

How long does that take?

It takes until you see yourself as "made righteous" and kept so, by the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

when does this begin, as your real faith.

The instant you realize that Salvation can't be lost, as this revelation is the understanding that Jesus is Salvation, and not "confessing sin" or "trying to be like Christ", or "water baptism", or "commandment keeping", or "law".

What I do know is that I have not known of any "man" who had to remain unmarried by choice or foreced on him ever had that disappear from his mind. You understand what I am saying?

You've also never heard what i'm teaching you, before you came here and found me.

So,assuming this man is spiritually born again how does he handle his life not offensively to God until the desires leave him?

By not trying to perform for God to be saved or to stay saved.

By losing/changing the mind that says..>"here is what i have to DO to stay saved".

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

2nd Corinthians 5:19, & Romans 4:8

A.) God does not charge sin to the born again.

Why?

Because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us", as "The one time eternal sacrifice for sin"

B.) ""Where there is no LAW.... there is no SIN"

The Born again are """NOT.... UNDER... THE.... LAW" = no law.

why?

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW........for righteousness....to everyone who BELIEVES".

So, when you are born again, this means you have BELIEVED, and that means God has given you the "gift of Righteousness".




It takes until you see yourself as "made righteous" and kept so, by the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

when does this begin, as your real faith.

The instant you realize that Salvation can't be lost, as this revelation is the understanding that Jesus is Salvation, and not "confessing sin" or "trying to be like Christ", or "water baptism", or "commandment keeping", or "law".



You've also never heard what i'm teaching you, before you came here and found me.




By not trying to perform for God to be saved or to stay saved.

By losing/changing the mind that says..>"here is what i have to DO to stay saved".

You've also never heard what i'm teaching you, before you came here and found me.

This is the most profoundly truthful statement I have ever had directed to me.

Would this, or could this or should this be classified in the OSAS camp of things, or not so because saved/salvation is not part of the born again experience but the end result?

 

[Behold]

You've also never heard what i'm teaching you, before you came here and found me.

This is the most profoundly truthful statement I have ever had directed to me.

Would this, or could this or should this be classified in the OSAS camp of things, or not so because saved/salvation is not part of the born again experience but the end result?

Yes.
You wont find what I teach on any forum, unless you are dealing with my Students.
Thats a fact.
All i teach is "Pauline Theology", and this has become hidden in these "last days".
Except i dont hide it. I teach it.
You've been reading it.

"OSAS" is a phrase that is related to Jewish unbelievers who were accusing Paul of "teaching that we should sin so that Grace will come"

So, its a very old heresy, that tries to redefine God's Grace, as "works", instead of Grace.

Jude says that what they did, these Pharisees, is... they convinced people that "teaching Grace" is "teaching license to sin".
So. that is a perversion of truth, that has the literal ability to deceive a person OUT of any understanding of the 'GRACE of God".

As once this cult teaching takes your mind, you will forever believe that the Gospel of Grace, when taught as "the Gift of Salvation" is... "They are teaching you can do anything and be saved".

And here is the strangest part of that mindset.......... its a fact that we were all doing SINNING, right until the moment that God saved us.
So, the wonder of Salvation, is that God saved SINNERS who were "yet sinners".
He didn't saved..."im trying to be good"........ any of those.

And this OSAS cult pretends that Salvation is somehow, ... based on you being good enough for God to accept. and in fact, ..

"Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS"....

And did.

 

[Jay Ross]

And the crowds cry out in a deafening voice, "Me Lord, Me Lord," in unison to this question believing that they will be recognised for their "honesty."

But who will God recognise at the time of determining the righteous of each individual.

 

[Behold]

But who will God recognise at the time of determining the righteous of each individual.

Eternal "Righteousness" is determined based only on 1 situation.


1.) Jesus said.. "you must be born again".


Being born again, is the only proof you will go to heaven, as this is the only means that God provides, as redemption.

Being born again, is the only PROOF that the Blood Atonement that Jesus has provided, has been applied to the person.

Thousands died today, and didn't go to heaven because they were never "born again".
Many were water baptized church members.

Being born again, is the only way to be spiritually restored to God.
Works can't do that for you.
Water can't do that for you.
Church can't do that for you.
Trying to be good, trying to be like Jesus, can't do that for you.

This is why Jesus told us....>"you MUST...... be born again".

 

[Jay Ross]

Eternal "Righteousness" is determined based only on 1 situation.


1.) Jesus said.. "you must be born again".


Being born again, is the only proof you will go to heaven, as this is the only means that God provides, as redemption.

Being born again, is the only PROOF that the Blood Atonement that Jesus has provided, has been applied to the person.

Thousands died today, and didn't go to heaven because they were never "born again".

Being born again, is the only way to be spiritually restored to God.
Works can't do that for you.
Water can't do that for you.
Trying to be good, trying to be like Jesus, can't do that for you.

This is why Jesus told us....>"you MUST...... be born again".

Yes, that is true, but the Book of revelations tells us that many of the "Saints" will, in the last days, turn away from God because of Satan and His promises.

Also, in Ezekiel 18, the chapter also tells us that is a righteous man sins and then will not repent of his sin then he will die the second death.

It seems that being righteous is based on just more than being born again. It really depends on what is recorded in the Book of Life.

The Parable of the separation of the sheep and the goats perhaps gives us a clue.

Shalom

 

[Behold]

Yes, that is true, but the Book of revelations tells us that many of the "Saints" will, in the last days, turn away from God because of Satan and His promises.

You can't stop being born again, but you can live not according to correct discipleship.

The good news?
Discipleship, whether perfect or not, does not save you.

Being Good enough for God to accept, can't be done, as "all have sinned".
This is why "Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS". and that means that everyone QUALIFIES for God's Salvation.

We are in the end times, and there is a great falling away from the GRACE of God, regarding the teaching and preaching of the Gospel of the Grace of God, within the Church, the body of Christ.

Most teach "commandment keeping, water baptism, and self effort" to try to be saved and STAY saved.
This is a "false gospel". = Galatians 1:8

Whereas God teaches something else as REDEMPTION, and this is rarely heard in these End Times.
Its the "preaching of the CROSS".

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

You can't stop being born again, but you can live not according to correct discipleship.

The good news?
Discipleship, whether perfect or not, does not save you.

Being Good enough for God to accept, can't be done, as "all have sinned".
This is why "Jesus came into the world to SAVE SINNERS". and that means that everyone QUALIFIES for God's Salvation.

We are in the end times, and there is a great falling away from the GRACE of God, regarding the teaching and preaching of the Gospel of the Grace of God, within the Church, the body of Christ.

Most teach "commandment keeping, water baptism, and self effort" to try to be saved and STAY saved.
This is a "false gospel". = Galatians 1:8

Whereas God teaches something else as REDEMPTION, and this is rarely heard in these End Times.
Its the "preaching of the CROSS".

You lost me again.

"You can't stop being born again?"

Is that because everyone is born again or is that because of Calvin's predestination? I'll self correct on this because according to Calvin some are predestined to damnation, ergo, they would never be born again.

OR WOULD THEY?

Perhaps because of foreknowledge God knew who to draw to be born again...........,,,,,???

I find it highly doubtful that the man who killed all those people at the Tree of Life Synagogue years ago and
FINALLY, just yesterday , received the death penalty.... (Ummm , for those of you horrified at that thought, just remember in PA it almost never happens. The last execution in this state ws 1999... a Gary Hendricks... and in 2015 Gov Wolf issued a formal moratorium on ececutions... still in effect. So this means that Richard Baumhamer who has been on death row since 2000 after killing 5 people.. ONE BEING A FRIEND OF OURS...
and leaving one horribly paralyzed will just fie peacefully in prison.... UNLESS, he is successful at one of his parol hearings)

But I digress.

This is back to being more then confusing in my mind.

We know...Even Solomon described in Eccl 12:5 states 7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the [e]spirit will return to God who gave it.

So as you say " God does not charge sin to the born again." IF every spirit goes back to Gosd and is born again...

Pleased tell me how God then determines the eternal outcome for those either in heavenly worship to Him, or damned into a fiery eternity or a final extinction?

 

[Behold]

You lost me again.

"You can't stop being born again?"

Its because you can't stop a birth, once its happened.

Notice that you are born of your mother?
Can you stop it now, that its happened?
See it?
You can't stop being BORN, if you are born.

You can't end being born again.

"Birth" can't be undone., and being Born....AGAIN, is a BIRTH. A Spiritual Birth.

Pleased tell me how God then determines the eternal outcome for those either in heavenly worship to Him, or damned into a fiery eternity or a final extinction?

When a person becomes born again spiritually, they become a living and eternal PART of God who "is A Spirit".

Born again, being born again, is a Spiritual Birth, whereby God's Holy Spirit BIRTH's the spirit in a person into the Spirit of God.
This can't be changed, stopped, or undone, as a BIRTH is permanent.
This Spiritual Birth, is not based on your behavior. Its based on God causing it to happen.

"born.... AGAIN"..

That's a 2nd Birth., and this one is Spiritual and Eternal, as you are Joined to Eternal God.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Its because you can't stop a birth, once its happened.

Notice that you are born of your mother?
Can you stop it now, that its happened?
See it?
You can't stop being BORN, if you are born.

You can't end being born again.

"Birth" can't be undone., and being Born....AGAIN, is a BIRTH. A Spiritual Birth.



When a person becomes born again spiritually, they become a living and eternal PART of God who "is A Spirit".

Born again, being born again, is a Spiritual Birth, whereby God's Holy Spirit BIRTH's the spirit in a person into the Spirit of God.
This can't be changed, stopped, or undone, as a BIRTH is permanent.
This Spiritual Birth, is not based on your behavior. Its based on God causing it to happen.

"born.... AGAIN"..

That's a 2nd Birth., and this one is Spiritual and Eternal, as you are Joined to Eternal God.

This part I understand, as you have presented it.

What I am trying to understand then is does God cause it to happen to everyone?

If not, then based on what does he select those to be born again?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe its fact.

its still your opinion

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you even know what the Gospel is. Do you even know what Christ accomplished and for whom ? Do you even know who Christ really is ?

Do you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That happened, but. its not applied until you are born again.

Unbelievers, not born again, are still under the law.

The BORN AGAIN are = "not under the law, but under Grace".

Amen, Before they are born again, they are dead in sin. If as he says, they were already justified, they would be born alive in christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

heart2soul



Means absolutely nothing



Either answer the questions or not friend.

She did

Your pride once again has you duped that you can't see when people answer you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The "insult" to the Cross, is to try to prove that Faith saves, instead of believing and Teaching that "only Jesus saves".

Realize yourself and stop doing that., as that ministry is not of God.

Let us know when you finally understand this, Michiah-Imla.

For BY GRACE we have been saved through faith

it is not faith that saves, it is Grace which saves.

it is through faith that we receive the grace of God offered to us.

if we do not have faith. we may claim we have received it. But in reality, it is just words.. Because we either reject grace and insert works (legalism). or we do not believe we really need grace to begin with (licentiousness)

both are steeped in pride.,.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All sin is willful., as if its not willful, then its not charged to the person.

what does that mean?

It means that everytime a believer decides to enjoy a carnal deed, a "work of the flesh", they knew it.


So, your verse that is Talking to the Hebrews, who are not saved, is not talking to the body of Christ.

Let me show you a reality.

All HERETICS....... live in : Matthew, James, and Hebrews.

Its what breeds them. Its where the Devil destroyed their faith, and has them preaching His gospel of "works and lose salvation".

Remember,

James said if we keep the whole law, yet STUMBLE in one point, we are guilty of all

James lets us know. if we just stumble or trip, and break any of the commands no matter how small, we are guilty of the law

No one stumbles or trips on purpose.. Yet as james also said, we all stumble in many things (james 3: 2)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

-

Sin is paid for by Christ on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

The unbeliever is not saved yet.

Later, at some point, they hear or understand that they are a sinner, and they turn to God in FAITH, through Christ.

Their "Faith (in Christ) is counted as righteousness" by God.

This means that when they Believe in Jesus, God accepts their faith in that instant to apply the blood atonement to them.
This "redeems them from their sin"... = FORGIVEN
THEN, having dealt with the believers sin, through the Cross of Christ.... God then gives them the "new birth"......born again, as a.....
= "new Creation in Christ"..

Eph 1:
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.


13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Paul makes it clear.. our inheritance is predestined, but we are not saved and sealed until AFTER we hear, and after we believe