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Sin is paid for by Christ on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago.
The unbeliever is not saved yet.
Later, at some point, they hear or understand that they are a sinner, and they turn to God in FAITH, through Christ.
Their "Faith (in Christ) is counted as righteousness" by God.
This means that when they Believe in Jesus, God accepts their faith in that instant to apply the blood atonement to them.
This "redeems them from their sin"... = FORGIVEN
THEN, having dealt with the believers sin, through the Cross of Christ.... God then gives them the "new birth"......born again, as a.....
= "new Creation in Christ"..
070707
Sure it is need for teaching and instruction, the believers perfection before God is first legal and its accomplished in and by the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood and Righteousness, and the believer is complete in Him Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Yet the believer is still a sinner, we are just sinners saved by Grace, but again legally the believer has been both sanctified and perfected forever by the Blood of Christ, thats their ticket to Glory Heb 10:10,14
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Sure it is need for teaching and instruction, the believers perfection before God is first legal and its accomplished in and by the Lord Jesus Christ, by His Blood and Righteousness, and the believer is complete in Him Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Yet the believer is still a sinner, we are just sinners saved by Grace, but again legally the believer has been both sanctified and perfected forever by the Blood of Christ, thats their ticket to Glory Heb 10:10,14
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
so were they Justified before God by Christs Offering before they were regenerated and become believers ?
Unbelievers are sinners. So defined by not having their sin FORGIVEN, and also because they are under the LAW which eternally defines them as a SINNER..
BELIEVERS, are """ not under the law, but under Grace"""", and JESUS has died for all their SIN, 2000 yrs ago.
Salvation is the "imputed righteousness" of Christ.
This means its Caused by God, upon them, and in them., based in BELIEVING in Jesus.
We give God our Faith in Christ and God APPLIES the Salvation that is the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, (proven by His bodily Resurrection), unto us.
"imputed Righteousness".
Its Justification BY faith........not Justification before faith.
behold
So are saints in their experience with the flesh
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Believers in Jesus are not under the law, neither are unbelievers for whom Christ died, they also are under Grace, because Jesus died for all their sins 2000yrs ago.
So are saints in their experience with the flesh
Saints are sinners with their sins forgiven and because Christ has died for their sins, God doesnt impute sin to them, charge it to their account, though they sin Rom 4:7-8
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Believers in Jesus are not under the law, neither are unbelievers for whom Christ died, they also are under Grace, because Jesus died for all their sins 2000yrs ago.
so were they Justified before God by Christs Offering before they were regenerated and become believers ? Yes or No please
Listen.
Lets say that God has given everyone A Billion dollars. Its in the Bank.
So, its yours, but you dont have it, until you go and GET IT.
Understand?
Jesus on the Cross, is that SALVATION..
Its there for everyone, but not until you give God your faith, will He give it to you.
behold
Then your answer must be NO and you are, reluctant to answer so plainly. Here is the question,
So your answer is NO correct ? Dont be afraid to answer yes or no plainly. Thanks
Then your answer must be NO and you are, reluctant to answer so plainly. Here is the question,
So your answer is NO correct ? Dont be afraid to answer yes or no plainly. Thanks
behold
Yes I understand, and you are absolutely wrong, if the money has been added to my account in the bank, its a finished transaction and the money belongs to me, its officially charged to my account, even though I know nothing about it. So when I find out about it, its good news, Gospel, however finding out about it isnt what caused the money to be put on my account, it was a free gift of grace that did that.
Yes I understand, and you are absolutely wrong, if the money has been added to my account in the bank, its a finished transaction and the money belongs to me, its officially charged to my account, even though I know nothing about it. So when I find out about it, its good news, Gospel, however finding out about it isnt what caused the money to be put on my account, it was a free gift of grace that did that.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
SMH... it must be my age... I truly am thoroughly confused.
Having started at page 1 here....
Please allow me to ask this as simply as I can.
Let's say a person , communion partaker, and unwavering believer that Christ was born of a virgin, was crucified, and was resurrected, shedding His precious blood for those who will believe in Him.
That Christ was, as we are told in 1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
That Christ became "our"... the faithful... blood sacrifice replacing that of animal blood which was needed for the Jews for their temporary forgiveness of sins... and He made it permanent for us.
And fully believing and accepting this brief outline, we call ourselves born again... others may say saved.
If I am wrong... please correct me.
continuing....
So Jesus dies, shedding His blood for our sins, and we have our sins wiped away. To never be remembered or thought of again by our heavenly Father or our savior.?
Here is my problem.
Lets say that throughout a life as one is learning and growing their faith and learning and trying to draw closer to God....one has periods or stretches of time where one might.... geez I dont know how to phrase this....
let's say let their guard down and succumb to things for a season... if you will... before grabbing the bull by the horns and stopping..... yet again.
Is this remembered sin or is it forgotten?
And if it is remembered then is there still salvation? I think not but hope I am wrong
If we willingly sin as in Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
No more sacrifice for our sins... means salvation lost, does it not?
All due to the uncontrollable flesh forcing unwanted thoughts.
Billy Graham answered this question this way. . But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1). Also, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
Yet...
Hebrews 6:4-6 says,
“4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
There have been many a discussion on things like this and still there is no consensus.
I shall remain confused....
Thanks for hearing me out.
Having started at page 1 here....
Please allow me to ask this as simply as I can.
Let's say a person , communion partaker, and unwavering believer that Christ was born of a virgin, was crucified, and was resurrected, shedding His precious blood for those who will believe in Him.
That Christ was, as we are told in 1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
That Christ became "our"... the faithful... blood sacrifice replacing that of animal blood which was needed for the Jews for their temporary forgiveness of sins... and He made it permanent for us.
And fully believing and accepting this brief outline, we call ourselves born again... others may say saved.
If I am wrong... please correct me.
continuing....
So Jesus dies, shedding His blood for our sins, and we have our sins wiped away. To never be remembered or thought of again by our heavenly Father or our savior.?
Here is my problem.
Lets say that throughout a life as one is learning and growing their faith and learning and trying to draw closer to God....one has periods or stretches of time where one might.... geez I dont know how to phrase this....
let's say let their guard down and succumb to things for a season... if you will... before grabbing the bull by the horns and stopping..... yet again.
Is this remembered sin or is it forgotten?
And if it is remembered then is there still salvation? I think not but hope I am wrong
If we willingly sin as in Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
No more sacrifice for our sins... means salvation lost, does it not?
All due to the uncontrollable flesh forcing unwanted thoughts.
Billy Graham answered this question this way. . But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1). Also, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
Yet...
Hebrews 6:4-6 says,
“4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
There have been many a discussion on things like this and still there is no consensus.
I shall remain confused....
Thanks for hearing me out.
Being born again, is to be recreated exactly as 1st Adam was, regarding relationship with God.
See..
""God is A Spirit", and we are a SPIRIT inside a BODY.... The BODY is not the real us. The body is the container of the SPIRIT that is the REAL us, that God sees.
So, when we are "born again"< we become re-joined to God, = Spiritually....... This is "spiritual union" regained, that Adam lost.
See that?
"Born again" = SPIRITUALLY, ... is to become 'in Christ', as "one with God", who is ""A Spirit"
This is why the NT tells us that we are "seated in Heavenly Places, in Christ"..... right now..
This is why the NT tells us that "as Jesus IS.... so are the born again.... in this world".
The problem that most believers have, is that they dont see themselves as a "born again" Spirit, that is the "Child of God".
They see, body and their thinking as the "Christian" ,and neither is the Christian. So, because they see themselves as "how i think i am", instead of "born again Spiritually", they end up trying to do this and confess that, and live this way, and try to be good enough....when in fact, they are already "made righteous" and have become "ONE with God"..... if they are BORN AGAIN, and water can't do that for you.
And this revelation, of who we have become "in Christ", when we get it, is the very first day our actual discipleship has started, as until we understand who we have BECOME, "in Christ"... as BORN AGAIN.. then the person's mind is wrong, faith is wrong, and their walk with God is not correct.
The question is not... "who do i think i am as a believer"... the question is....>"Who does GOD say i have become, as a born again SPIRIT".
See that?
If you can come to that revelation, then you have "worked our your Salvation" as to do that, is to understand what it means to have become ..."The Righteousness of GOD..... in Christ".
Your verse, is directed at HEBREWS... who are unbelievers... in those verses.
So, when someone tries to use this verse and Chapter 6, against you, to try to make you believe you can lose your salvation, then take them to Acts 28:28, and find the Same Apostle Paul, talking to this same Group, of HEBREWS, and He explains that he is finished trying to lead them to their Messiah... and will now go to the Gentiles "who will hear the Gospel"
So, the final answer is this..
"God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us".... because "Jesus is the ONE TIME ETERNAL SACRIFICE for Sin".
See that?
Jesus has your sin. Jesus died for them ALL.. and this death is an ETERNAL Sacrifice for them = ALL.
Yes, i know that cults teach that "only the sin you committed before you are saved, are forgiven".
But im not that cult, and you wanted to understand the Gift of the Cross and the Blood of Jesus.
So, there it is.
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@Behold ...I’ve been told on another forum...that we have 2 natures...we have that new nature.in Christ....yet, we still have that old nature/ the flesh/old man in us.....that’s the one that still sins?
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Ephesians 4:24
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2 Peter 1:3-4
King James Version
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Ephesians 4:24
King James Version
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
I believe God brings us to this place....
The faith in God ,is the rebirth....we are drawn by God to believe in Jesus...I’m not saying he believes for us...but, he brings us to that belief...we become Born Again Through the power of his Spirit...which is a spiritual/ supernatural living birth.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Okay... Point made, and well done.... however,
Most people today from the mainstream churches to the corner preacher... ( might be a bad example cause I have not seen one of those in years) do not comprehend man is a triune being.
Therefore they will not comprehend
"So, when we are "born again"< we become re-joined to God, = Spiritually....... This is "spiritual union" regained, that Adam lost."
There was many a heated debate on a previous forum that is seemingly down permanently regarding
the triune man and his nature.
The more complex explanations offered and examples just went over the heads of some.
Proof of that was seen when Jesus said in John 3:
"5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born [a]again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
THEN:
9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
How much less would common man not understand.
But I thank you for your perfect correction
"The old man (old nature of the flesh) is Crucified with Christ."""
Jesus has our sin, and we have "the righteousness of God, in Christ".
so...Now, we are to "put on the whole armor of God".
This is to UNDERSTAND who we have become "in Christ"..
#1) Helmet of Salvation. (put it on).
This is the understanding that we are no longer a "sinner", because we are now "made righteous" and have become a "Son/Daughter" of God".
We can't be both., because we have been BORN AGAIN, as something different then we were when we were a "sinner".
A "Son/Daughter" of God is not a SINNER.
People on that "other forum" who may not even be saved, are trying to "stay saved" believe they are a "saved sinner" only, in their head.
They do not understand SALVATiON.
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A believer who is worried about "sin" does not understand that "God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us"... as.."The one time eternal sacrifice for sin".
They do not understand that the born again are "not under the LAW, but under GRACE".
What does"under the law" mean?
It means that the person is under its dominion. and that means the Law can define you as a sinner and your deeds as sin.
The CROSS came to take that power away from the Law.
= .Jesus, came to "redeem us from the CURSE of the Law", and that CURSE is to be 'under the Law".
"Christ is the END OF THE LAW...for righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES" [= born again.
The Born again are "NOT under the LAW....but UNDER Grace".
So, the born again are always DEFINED by Grace.....and Grace is God's mercy that has given us RIGHTEOUSNESS as "the Gift of Righteousness".
And the more you understand this, Reader, the more your sin consciousness will fade and become as nothing to you.
Its really just very simple.
= Once we are born again, God never again sees our sin, or our faults.
2 Corinthians 5:19
Romans 4:8
Father God only sees us as "the righteousness of God in Christ".
And when we learn to renew our minds to think like that... as God sees us, then all this worry about sin, and losing salvation, just fades out of view as the Grace of God becomes our FAITH in CHRIST.
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