Never said He did, I have no idea where you got that from, you do ramble on.
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bbyrd009
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alright then, yes. And at
i agree, He did, quite openly, condemn all of the leaders of the Established church of His day, who had led the Israelites astray.mjrhealth said:
bbyrd009
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13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You lock up the kingdom of heaven from people. For you don’t go in, and you don’t allow those entering to go in.v
14“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You devour widows’ houses and make long prayers just for show.w This is why you will receive a harsher punishment. x
15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one •proselyte,y and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for •hellz as you are!
16“Woe to you, blind guides,aa who say, ‘Whoever takes an oath by the sanctuary, it means nothing. But whoever takes an oathab by the gold of the sanctuary is bound by his oath.’ac
17Blind fools!ad For which is greater, the gold or the sanctuary that sanctified the gold?
18Also, ‘Whoever takes an oath by the altar, it means nothing. But whoever takes an oath by the gift that is on it is bound by his oath.’ae
19Blind people!af For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?ag
20Therefore, the one who takes an oath by the altar takes an oath by it and by everything on it.
21The one who takes an oath by the sanctuary takes an oath by it and by Him who dwellsah in it.
22And the one who takes an oath by heaven takes an oath by God’s throneai and by Him who sits on it.aj
23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth ofak mint, dill, and cumin,al yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice,am mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.
24Blind guides!an You strain out a gnat, yet gulp down a camel!
25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You •clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greedao and self-indulgence!ap
26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup,aq so the outside of itar may also become clean.
27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs,as which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every impurity.
28In the same way, on the outside you seem righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have taken part with them in shedding the prophets’ blood.’at
31You, therefore, testify against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!
8 woes, 4 and 4; with a Witness:
42“But woeco to you Pharisees! You give a tenthcp,cq of mint, rue, and every kind of herb, and you bypasscr justicecs and love for God.ct,cu These things you should have done without neglecting the others.
43“Woe to you Pharisees! You love the front seatcv in the •synagoguescw and greetings in the marketplaces.
44“Woe to you!cx You are like unmarked graves;cy the people who walk over them don’t know it.”
45One of the experts in the lawcz answered Him, “Teacher, when You say these things You insult us too.”
46Then He said: “Woe also to you experts in the law! You load people with burdensda that are hard to carry, yet you yourselves don’t touch these burdens with one of your fingers.db
47“Woe to you! You build monumentsde to the prophets,df and your fathers killeddg them. 48Therefore, you are witnessesdh that you approvedi,dj the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their monuments.dk
49Because of this, the wisdom of Goddl said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles,dm and some of them they will kill and persecute,’dn
50so that this generationdo may be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the worlddp,dq —
51from the blood of Abeldr to the blood of Zechariah,ds who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. “Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible.dt
52“Woe to you experts in the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!du You didn’t go in yourselves, and you hindereddv those who were going in.”
But 6 woes, here; 3, 2, and 1. This is whispering to us. And also about us.
(53When He left there,dw the •scribes and the Pharisees began to opposedx Him fiercely and to cross-examine Him about many things;
54they were lying in waitdy for Him to trap Him in something He said.)
So, some pretty specific condemnation going on, imo. Who knows the story of Zechariah, who "perished between the altar and the sanctuary?"
Who even understands this? Isn't the altar in the sanctuary? Now?
May as well finish the woes, here, i guess:
21“Woe to you, Chorazin!w Woe to you, Bethsaida!x For if the miracles that were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon,y they would have repented in •sackcloth and ashes long ago!
22But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgmentz than for you.
23And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to •Hades.aa For if the miracles that were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until today.
24But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
13“Woev to you,w Chorazin!x Woe to you, Bethsaida!y For if the miraclesz that were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon,aa they would have repented long ago, sitting in •sackcloth and ashes!ab
14But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgmentac than for you.
15And you, Capernaum,ad will you be exalted to heaven?ae No, you will go down to •Hades!af
So, 5 "places," now, being "woed," (3 against 2, and 2 against 3)
with some interesting associations on the surface, some little clues, and some amazing associations that do not even appear until you read the surrounding text for the contexts, which Witness each other but also subtly change, and until you know the meanings of the place names, that we could spend the rest of the day on, in abarim pubs or wherever, which would be pointless anyway as long as one thinks heaven and Hades are places, or future. (And of course we associate "Hades" with "hell," the place of torment and fire that developed in translation, when Hades is straight out of Greek mythology, only don't tell Stranger that. Iow, a trick is being played on you, if you read with a broom, or allow others to interpret for you, and you find what you seek)
So, not even scratching the surface yet, we have "7" woes, in a way, Witnessed in an "8" and a "6," and "5" places, 3 against 2, and 2 against 3, if you notice (that also end up being in 8 and 6, if you look), all Witnessing each other, while simultaneously providing "errors" for atheists or whatever. So, since i've been here an hour now, and we haven't even started understanding yet--not even close, not even trying--i may as well post the only other "woe" that We have Christ recorded as speaking:
24But woe to you who are rich,
for you have received your comfort.
25Woe to you who are now full,
for you will be hungry.
Woe to youab who are now laughing,
for you will mourn and weep.
26Woe to youac
when all people speak well of you,
for this is the way their ancestors
used to treat the false prophets.
So now "4" woes, all to "you," (which is me) with no Witness--very important--and since i gotta run, i'll just plant here that again, 4 indicates seasons, and times (and half a time), and 8 is therefore 2 seasons, like 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 is, or 70 weeks with that pesky missing week, that prolly occurs, oh, God knows when, lol, and when you find the 8th day, you can just count backwards or whatever, or forwards from 4. Meaning that you have a ...4, 5678 here, whenever you're ready, whenever you make this transition, here it will be. 1234 5678.
Which, i'm not meaning to be coy here, if i could translate, i would, but i didn't know all this even an hour ago; so maybe someone can come tell us. All i know is, i'm two men in a bed, and one is taken, and the other left, and there are seven spirits of God (sent out into all the earth, and the seven stars, seven horns and seven eyes <eyes without a face>, seven other spirits more wicked than itself, Mary Magdalene, from whom he had sent out seven evil spirits, On the seventh day of the feast, when King <god> Xerxes was in high spirits because of the wine, he told the seven eunuchs who attended him--Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas...) and i am a child, becoming a man, a first season, and then a second season, and my seasons are 4, "fall," winter spring summer, (then the harvest; put in the sickle)(8th day)
14“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You devour widows’ houses and make long prayers just for show.w This is why you will receive a harsher punishment. x
15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one •proselyte,y and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for •hellz as you are!
16“Woe to you, blind guides,aa who say, ‘Whoever takes an oath by the sanctuary, it means nothing. But whoever takes an oathab by the gold of the sanctuary is bound by his oath.’ac
17Blind fools!ad For which is greater, the gold or the sanctuary that sanctified the gold?
18Also, ‘Whoever takes an oath by the altar, it means nothing. But whoever takes an oath by the gift that is on it is bound by his oath.’ae
19Blind people!af For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?ag
20Therefore, the one who takes an oath by the altar takes an oath by it and by everything on it.
21The one who takes an oath by the sanctuary takes an oath by it and by Him who dwellsah in it.
22And the one who takes an oath by heaven takes an oath by God’s throneai and by Him who sits on it.aj
23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth ofak mint, dill, and cumin,al yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice,am mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.
24Blind guides!an You strain out a gnat, yet gulp down a camel!
25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You •clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greedao and self-indulgence!ap
26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup,aq so the outside of itar may also become clean.
27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs,as which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every impurity.
28In the same way, on the outside you seem righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we wouldn’t have taken part with them in shedding the prophets’ blood.’at
31You, therefore, testify against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!
8 woes, 4 and 4; with a Witness:
42“But woeco to you Pharisees! You give a tenthcp,cq of mint, rue, and every kind of herb, and you bypasscr justicecs and love for God.ct,cu These things you should have done without neglecting the others.
43“Woe to you Pharisees! You love the front seatcv in the •synagoguescw and greetings in the marketplaces.
44“Woe to you!cx You are like unmarked graves;cy the people who walk over them don’t know it.”
45One of the experts in the lawcz answered Him, “Teacher, when You say these things You insult us too.”
46Then He said: “Woe also to you experts in the law! You load people with burdensda that are hard to carry, yet you yourselves don’t touch these burdens with one of your fingers.db
47“Woe to you! You build monumentsde to the prophets,df and your fathers killeddg them. 48Therefore, you are witnessesdh that you approvedi,dj the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their monuments.dk
49Because of this, the wisdom of Goddl said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles,dm and some of them they will kill and persecute,’dn
50so that this generationdo may be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets shed since the foundation of the worlddp,dq —
51from the blood of Abeldr to the blood of Zechariah,ds who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. “Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible.dt
52“Woe to you experts in the law! You have taken away the key of knowledge!du You didn’t go in yourselves, and you hindereddv those who were going in.”
But 6 woes, here; 3, 2, and 1. This is whispering to us. And also about us.
(53When He left there,dw the •scribes and the Pharisees began to opposedx Him fiercely and to cross-examine Him about many things;
54they were lying in waitdy for Him to trap Him in something He said.)
So, some pretty specific condemnation going on, imo. Who knows the story of Zechariah, who "perished between the altar and the sanctuary?"
Who even understands this? Isn't the altar in the sanctuary? Now?
May as well finish the woes, here, i guess:
21“Woe to you, Chorazin!w Woe to you, Bethsaida!x For if the miracles that were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon,y they would have repented in •sackcloth and ashes long ago!
22But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgmentz than for you.
23And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to •Hades.aa For if the miracles that were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until today.
24But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
13“Woev to you,w Chorazin!x Woe to you, Bethsaida!y For if the miraclesz that were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon,aa they would have repented long ago, sitting in •sackcloth and ashes!ab
14But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgmentac than for you.
15And you, Capernaum,ad will you be exalted to heaven?ae No, you will go down to •Hades!af
So, 5 "places," now, being "woed," (3 against 2, and 2 against 3)
with some interesting associations on the surface, some little clues, and some amazing associations that do not even appear until you read the surrounding text for the contexts, which Witness each other but also subtly change, and until you know the meanings of the place names, that we could spend the rest of the day on, in abarim pubs or wherever, which would be pointless anyway as long as one thinks heaven and Hades are places, or future. (And of course we associate "Hades" with "hell," the place of torment and fire that developed in translation, when Hades is straight out of Greek mythology, only don't tell Stranger that. Iow, a trick is being played on you, if you read with a broom, or allow others to interpret for you, and you find what you seek)
So, not even scratching the surface yet, we have "7" woes, in a way, Witnessed in an "8" and a "6," and "5" places, 3 against 2, and 2 against 3, if you notice (that also end up being in 8 and 6, if you look), all Witnessing each other, while simultaneously providing "errors" for atheists or whatever. So, since i've been here an hour now, and we haven't even started understanding yet--not even close, not even trying--i may as well post the only other "woe" that We have Christ recorded as speaking:
24But woe to you who are rich,
for you have received your comfort.
25Woe to you who are now full,
for you will be hungry.
Woe to youab who are now laughing,
for you will mourn and weep.
26Woe to youac
when all people speak well of you,
for this is the way their ancestors
used to treat the false prophets.
So now "4" woes, all to "you," (which is me) with no Witness--very important--and since i gotta run, i'll just plant here that again, 4 indicates seasons, and times (and half a time), and 8 is therefore 2 seasons, like 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 is, or 70 weeks with that pesky missing week, that prolly occurs, oh, God knows when, lol, and when you find the 8th day, you can just count backwards or whatever, or forwards from 4. Meaning that you have a ...4, 5678 here, whenever you're ready, whenever you make this transition, here it will be. 1234 5678.
Which, i'm not meaning to be coy here, if i could translate, i would, but i didn't know all this even an hour ago; so maybe someone can come tell us. All i know is, i'm two men in a bed, and one is taken, and the other left, and there are seven spirits of God (sent out into all the earth, and the seven stars, seven horns and seven eyes <eyes without a face>, seven other spirits more wicked than itself, Mary Magdalene, from whom he had sent out seven evil spirits, On the seventh day of the feast, when King <god> Xerxes was in high spirits because of the wine, he told the seven eunuchs who attended him--Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas...) and i am a child, becoming a man, a first season, and then a second season, and my seasons are 4, "fall," winter spring summer, (then the harvest; put in the sickle)(8th day)
The Pharisees are not believers in Christ. They were still walking in unbelief. Why do you think Jesus pissed um off so much. Christianity 101 bro.bbyrd009 said:
bbyrd009
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Are you sure? All of them? See that in this way, because you claim belief in Christ, you in essence close yourself to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.Heb 13:8 said:
This cannot apply, now, to anyone who claims to believe in Christ, then. So with one, bold stroke, that verse is now inapplicable to anyone who claims Christian,
as is any other reflection applicable to Pharisees, symbologically. Spiritually, iow. So then, i cannot be a hypocrite, because i am not a Pharisee.
And what, after all, is the leaven of the Pharisees?
bbyrd009
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Ya--well legal ones, anyway. Shades of Job, hmm...and, shades of Paul, too.Heb 13:8 said:
42 Nevertheless, many did believe in Him even among the rulers...
..But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved human praise more than praise from God.bbyrd009 said:
bbyrd009
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yes, i purposely cut that part off, because that does not imo mean that no Pharisees did not believe, just "because the Pharisees," meaning as a body, persecuted those who believed Christ. Now, you could argue that that is not true, and say that "because the Pharisees" by definition means that no Pharisee leader could possibly have believed in Christ, in their heart, but we even have some testimony by some leaders, which i would have to go see which sect they belonged to, they were Sanhedrin anyway, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was no actual "proof" of any passage where a stated Pharisee said they believed Christ, strictly to make the matter revealing of peoples' hearts, in the decision. Imo it's kind of like saying that because i'm a cop, i can't break the law.Heb 13:8 said:
So, if you insist "No Pharisee could, by definition, have accepted Christ," then i can't prove you are wrong, but it strikes me as demanding an absolute, to force a point, perhaps. When the truth is surely on a bell curve, right.
If you're a Pharisee that has come to believe then you're no longer a Pharisee by definition. You're a believer.bbyrd009 said:
bbyrd009
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so then, if i am a cop who has come to break a law, and say maybe i smoke pot now, or whatever, by definition i am no longer a cop.Heb 13:8 said:
A cop is a cop because they passed a test or two and had gone through training. A believer is a believer because of their faith in the finished work of the cross. Are you comparing a cop test to the blood of Christ?bbyrd009 said:
bbyrd009
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no, i'm just saying that a Pharisee, a leader, might have come to believe in Christ and still be afraid of "the Pharisees" as a political body.
You mean Saul of whom Christ said
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
because he was killing christians?? I guess he wasnt that good was he.
bbyrd009
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No but it took a "revelation" for His eyes to be opened, because He was blind, but when Chirst opened His eyes he could see.
Revelation not from teh Pope its from God.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
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