Who is Right?
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I have heard so may stories while on the mission field. One comes to mind about a man in a village in Northern Thailand whose son was dying of a mysterious disease. This man had been praying to his gods for his son's healing which did not happen no matter how much he prayed. A friend told him one day that he had heard of an unknown God who sent his son to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Perhaps this God will save your son. So the man began to pray to an unknown God asking him to heal his son. Within moments of that prayer, his son was healed. Later on, he got to know who this unknown God and his precious son was through missionary work in his area.Axehead said:
Now that's the God I know and love...He has known us from the beginning even though we may not know him...
h34r:Amen, Angelina! That's the God I know, too.Angelina said:I have heard so may stories while on the mission field. One comes to mind about a man in a village in Northern Thailand whose son was dying of a mysterious disease. This man had been praying to his gods for his son's healing which did not happen no matter how much he prayed. A friend told him one day that he had heard of an unknown God who sent his son to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. Perhaps this God will save your son. So the man began to pray to an unknown God asking him to heal his son. Within moments of that prayer, his son was healed. Later on, he got to know who this unknown God and his precious son was through missionary work in his area.
Now that's the God I know and love...He has known us from the beginning even though we may not know him...
That is a very common reaction from Catholics, Aspen. My mother said the same thing to me when I was joined to Christ (born again) and He severed me from Roman Catholicism by His Spirit after 3 months of praying and reading the NT. I did not even know that would happen. She did not understand at the time. Her exact reply was that she was glad that I was off drugs and not drinking anymore, but did I have to leave the Catholic church? It was difficult to make her understand that I just joined Christ and anything that was not of Him I just left By the wayside.aspen said:
When my Dad died she removed me as executor of her will and put my younger brother in my place, besides doing some other things, but that was ok. I have a great relationship with my brother and his wife and kids and I never let a root of bitterness take hold in me over my mother. She is more important than anything this world has. Because of that the communication lines have always stayed open between my mother and I and she adores my wife and four kids and is amazed that they all love and follow the Lord while none of my 5 siblings do. A root of bitterness can defile many. Thirty-eight years of loving my mother and following Christ have done more for her than preaching. It is not good to alienate people. If you do, you won't have the possibility of speaking into their life anymore.
I always peach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and aim to get people to join themselves to the Lord from their heart and never try to get people to join a religious organization or an ism. The Lord will take care of the rest once He has a man's heart.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Axehead - I've noticed that Catholicism is not good at educating or keeping its youth; they have relied on the individual families to instill religious commitment and since the culture of Catholicism and the family has eroded since the sixties - Catholic youth have become less and less educated and committed to their faith. The leadership got lazy. Those who switch faith traditions, they mistakenly believe they are learning different or new information.
On the other hand, I have also noticed that conservative Protestant/Evangelical churches have a hard time retaining their older members. Personally, I think they simply outgrow the teachings. Many catholic youth, who abandon the church in their teens and early adulthood, return in their forties. After the alter calls and showmanship and activities for kids and youth families no longer applies, they crave a deeper spirituality. I know I did.
I think we agree that whatever church teaches you Christ and His Gospel is the place you should be.
On the other hand, I have also noticed that conservative Protestant/Evangelical churches have a hard time retaining their older members. Personally, I think they simply outgrow the teachings. Many catholic youth, who abandon the church in their teens and early adulthood, return in their forties. After the alter calls and showmanship and activities for kids and youth families no longer applies, they crave a deeper spirituality. I know I did.
I think we agree that whatever church teaches you Christ and His Gospel is the place you should be.
Born_Again
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I'm reading a book right now called Distortion by Chelsen Vicari. Its about why the traditional church is declining with the millennial crowd.
It says "According to a 2008 Pew Research study, of all the protestant groups, Baptist had the largest percentage of children who chose not to affiliate with them as adults, experiencing a net change of 3.7 percent. The only other church tradition with a greater loss was the Catholic Church with a loss of 7.5 percent."
The Baptist youth claim the church was no longer relevant in their lives as they graduated highschool.
Just thought I'd add this.
BA
It says "According to a 2008 Pew Research study, of all the protestant groups, Baptist had the largest percentage of children who chose not to affiliate with them as adults, experiencing a net change of 3.7 percent. The only other church tradition with a greater loss was the Catholic Church with a loss of 7.5 percent."
The Baptist youth claim the church was no longer relevant in their lives as they graduated highschool.
Just thought I'd add this.
BA
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
BA - yeah, it is the perceived bigotry the millennial crowd sees in Christianity that is the core issue. But genX was the first to reject church in noticeable numbers - it is no surprise their kids are following suit - they never learned the language or benefit of religion.
Millennialis are also more sophisticated than previous generations when it comes to globalism, technology, and even the entertainment they choose to consume. The four spiritual law tracts are no longer going to pass for meaningful spirituality.
Millennialis are also more sophisticated than previous generations when it comes to globalism, technology, and even the entertainment they choose to consume. The four spiritual law tracts are no longer going to pass for meaningful spirituality.
I notice that most conversations here always gravitate towards religion and away from Jesus Christ. What do you think that implies? Religion is very competitive. Man based organizations always are. Religion has always had this problem of not being able to keep the youth or true seekers of God. And it is not just the youth. Religious organizations are incompatible with Christ in many ways.aspen said:
Thankfully, the Lord is able to keep His sheep even if religion can't. And that goes for the young or old.
Jude 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
It implies that the god of this world will do anything to get our eyes off of Jesus and on to man.Axehead said:
There are only two things on which we should focus: Loving God with all our heart, mind and soul, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. The rest are man-made rules that may or may not enhance one's love for God and others depending on the person... We are saved by grace and kept by faith, not by works or the keeping of rituals.
"If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom... but are of no value against fleshly indulgence" -Colossians 2:16-23
"why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." -Acts 15:10
He died and rose again to defeat the power of sin to cause death and of death to be permanent. All mankind (saint and sinner) will be resurrected incorruptible (can't get sick or old or be damaged) and immortal. (the resurrected body cannot physically die again.)davidnelson said:
1Co 15:52-53 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
To those who, by patient continuance in doing good, seek for glory, honor, and immortality He will give eternal life. (Rom 2:7)
Eternal life is the state of those who are "in Christ" (not a metaphor) as He is in the Father and the Father is in Christ, (John 17:21,23) who have become "one flesh" with Christ, (Eph 5:31-32) and who share in God's glory. (John 17:22)
Heaven is not a place; it is the state of being united to Christ by participating in the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) as Christ, the word of God incarnate, participates in our human nature. (John 1:14)
Salvation is nothing less than than all-embracing transformation of our humanness. To be saved is to share
with all the fullness of human nature in the power, joy and glory of God. It is to affirm with entire and
uncompromising realism, "His life is mine." Kalistos Ware, How are we Saved?, p.64
Salvation is a much greater gift than just going to heaven instead of going to hell. It is the uniting of created man to his creator.
Salvation is Christ. Christ is salvation. Heaven is not heaven if Jesus Christ is not there. And you either have Jesus Christ or you don't. There are only two choices.
All Christian denominations will agree that you need to repent of sin. Ie hate sin. Ie be born again. The Catholic church might not literally teach ''BAC'' but they do recognize age of accountability and making a decision to serve Jesus. Which in essence is what BAC is. Past childhood and then deciding to follow Jesus.davidnelson said:
What we need to look at closely is those churches that put us back into the world. A lot depends on preachers. You can have a Catholic priest misrepresenting the Catholic faith on idolatry. Then you can have a charismatic preacher teaching that we are super Jews and must claim riches and healing. Ie leave the world and lusts of the flesh behind by pursuing the world and the lusts of the flesh.
This should be easy for a ''true'' Christian to see through though. A true Christian HATES what is evil and CLINGS to what is good Rom 12:9.
Denominational differences < heretical teachers with no respected oversight.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Ok, time to wrap this thread up......I've let it carry on far too long......I am sorry for the delay. You see, I am the person who is right and it was selfish of me to withhold it from all of you.
Yes, I feel better now.
Yes, I feel better now.
James 2...even satan and his demons believe....it is not only the hearers of the law but doers of the law that are justified before God....James 2.24.26 and Romans 2.13Angelina said:
Whichever denomination does not teach us to submit to Jesus and repent / hate what is evil...is wrong.davidnelson said:
Catholics might not teach in a literal a ''born again'' experience. But that does not mean they do not teach it. When ''anyone'' decides to follow Jesus Matt 16:24 ...God draws close to them James 4:8, judges their sincerity Jer 17:9-11 and they meet Jesus with a revelation from the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17.
The denomniations / teaching you and I '''need'' to be weary of is the ''faith teaching''. It is satanism in the church. It appeals to our pride and vanity. It proposes that we are demigods and if life is not hunky dory we are not Christians. It is basically Matt 7:22 '''Christians'' vs James 1:27 Christians.
We all have a working brain. Scripture says that if we lose our life we will find. But if we try find it we will lose it. Many churches teach ''you'' to grab hold of promises....mmm just like the devil would.
Many churches teach that we are super Jews. They don't understand the transition from old to new covenant. God had to make promises to the Jews. If God said Israel was the land of sand and mud, nobdoy would have followed Moses through the desert. Christians should be able to follow God without a promise. Christians should be able to serve God whilst in hell. Job is an example of faith to all of us. He had more faith then any of us and it was at its greatest when he was at his worst point in life.
Give me any teaching anyday over modern faith tripe. It is positive teaching in Christianity. Christianity is not positive vs negative. It is life vs death. It is not rich vs poor. It is trust vs no trust. It is not healed vs sick. It is my life belongs to God, may His will be done.
BATTLE!Man on Fire said:
You are so right, Man on Fire! Either we stand up for our right to our faith...or our grandchildren will find themselves worshiping in a dark basement, if they dare to worship at all.
Bit by bit, just a little at a time, so that we don't notice, our rights are being slowly taken from us.
Wake up, Land of the Free!
On your feet, Home of the Brave!
Time to fight back, before it's too late!
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