Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[1stCenturyLady]

God has given us paradigms that repeat themselves. For instance Nero was the second Antichrist type person, the first being Antiochus IV Epiphanes, both defiled the temple in the middle of a Jewish revolt. It doesn't surprise me that Israel is at war and right on time.

 

[MatthewG]

God has given us paradigms that repeat themselves.

I do not doubt things tend to be "nothing new under the sun," however, when it comes to the great tribulation - Jesus said it would only be one time.

Matthew 24: 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, no [j]life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [k]elect those days will be cut short.

Mark 13:19 For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. 20 Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no [i]life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [j]elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Luke 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then [l]recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of [m]the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter [n]the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the [o]land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.


@1stCenturyLady figured would grab the scriptures, cause all of these things relate to the coming dreadful day promised in Malachi.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

What also was said by John the baptist?

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Therefore with all this information and considering the Matthew, Mark, Luke, which have Jesus state 'this generation shall not surely pass away until all things happen." Spoke in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32. All speak to a generation that would see these things come upon them, and it would never ever be so great again.

People today continue to look at the news, and it makes it seem like "UH OH JESUS IS COMING BACK SOON!" And it doesn't help with all the pastors and preachers that continue to go along with it to, that is why I continue to believe that JEsus did come back to those living breathing people who were under great tribulation and strife and being killed by their own people, and famine and pestilence and the sword was also going along to with the Roman armies in that day, and everything was going up in flames... but people wanna just let that die and go and say nope... that is not reasonable.

Those were faithful looking, waiting, watching as promised by the apostles to do, were taken up, and he was seen just as he left... ascending into the clouds. I believe these things by faith.


Yes history repeats itself, but this is never to said to repeat itself, according to Jesus. Therefore who do I listen to? People who continue to go around saying Jesus is coming back, or JEsus himself, and his apostle, and gleaning in on history?

 

[ewq1938]

The Great Tribulation is 7 years.

It originally was 7 years but Christ said the time would be shortened so now we see it is only 42 months.

 

[MatthewG]

Seeing as you are a preterist, how do you explain that the oceans still have whales and all manner of life in them. The prophecy that every living thing in the ocean dies has not been fulfilled as you think.

Great question, 1CL,

The sea that was no more is in reference to the Brazen sea. That was located in the temple grounds. With the temple being destroyed, there is no more sea.

1 Kings 7
23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits[a] to measure around it. 24 Below the rim, gourds encircled it—ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea.

25 The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. 26 It was a handbreadth[b] in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths.[c]

 

[Brakelite]

You have run your mind off in a ditch of irrelevant thought.

It is not only relevant, but biblically sound. You cannot discuss the identity of the Antichrist while totally ignoring the scriptural criteria pertinent to the truthful description and character, roots, location, motives, and history of the only entity that has fully met those criteria, and then expecting some future individual to do the same. It's impossible. For example. No future individual can grow from pagan Rome such as the little horn did. And everyone agrees that they little horn of Daniel 7 is the Antichrist. It simply isn't possible for the Antichrist to be anything other than a Roman entity. All Rome. And only Rome.
And the timing also is important. I mean, God is so good. He has given specific prophetic time frames in which the little horn fits. He can't be thrown into the future without doing incalculable violence to the prophecy. The little horn appearsafter the division of the Empire into 10 distinct kingdoms. And it grows up among those ten, and then actively participates in disposing of 3 of them. Also, there is no time delay or gap between the iron of the legs of the image in Daniel 2 and the composite of iron and clay.

Here is a list I came across of Pre-Reformation and Reformers Interpretations:

Date Name Reference Interpretation

c. 1310 Dante Alighieri
Rev. 17 Harlot=Roman Church

c. 1331 Michael of Cesena
Rev. 17 Harlot/Antichrist=Roman Church, Pope

c. 1345 Johannes de Rupescissa
Antichrist, Rev. 17 Babylon, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Roman church


c. 1350 Francesco Petrarch
Rev. 17 Harlot=Papal Court

c. 1367 John Milicz
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin=Papacy


c. 1379 John Wycliffe
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn. Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Papacy


c. 1388 Matthias of Janow
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Hierarchy/Papacy


c. 1390 John Purvey
Antichrist, Rev. 13 666, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


c. 1393 Walter Brute
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin=Papacy/Bishop of Rome/Papacy

c. 1412 John Huss
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


c. 1497 Girolamo Savonarola
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

Reformation Era Interpretations:

1522 Martin Luther
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1543 Philipp Melanchthon
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1545 Andreas Osiander
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1554 Nicolaus von Amsdorf
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1558 Johann Funck
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1560 Virgil Solis
Antichrist, Little Horn, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1570 Georg Nigrinus
Antichrist= Pope

1572 David Chytraeus
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin= Papacy

1530 Johann Oecolampadius
Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

1557 Heinrich Bullinger
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1550 William Tyndale
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1545 George Joys
Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

1554 Nicholas Ridley
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1553 Hugh Latimer
Antichrist=Papacy

1582 Thomas Cranmer
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

1550 John Bale
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1562 John Jewel
Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

1587 John Foxe
Antichrist, Man of Sin=Bishop of Rome

1563 Anglican Formulas
Antichrist=Papacy

1547 John Knox
Antichrist, Little Horn=Church of Rome/Papacy

1593 John Napier
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 13 1st Beast, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
Rev. 17 Beast =Pope/Papacy/Latin Empire

1614 Thomas Brightman
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

1618 David Pareus
Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Beast=Pope/Papacy

Sir Isaac Newton
Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

John Wesley
Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy also Antichrist

And they ask the question, "In view of the foregoing Reformation interpretations identifying Papacy as the Antichrist and Man of Sin, why do so many Evangelical Protestants today believe the Man of Sin and Antichrist are future individuals?".... Reformation Views

What is also interesting is the early church fathers who wrote in expectation of the Antichrist to appear as soon as imperial Rome was divided. They fully expected Rome to divide into 10 separate kingdoms, and the Antichrist to come up from among them... That is, in their midst. Some of them such as Jerome, were living at the time of the fall of Rome and the establishment of the barbarian nations in its place, but had yet to witness the fall of the 3 horns at the hands of the little horn. This came just a little later. No, NO, future entity, be it group, institution, or individual, can meet that very specific criteria. Only a Roman institution can.

 

[Timtofly]

But she was in the Garden too with Adam otherwise she couldn't have seen the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Adam was created on the 6th day. Then God rested from the work of Creation.

It was after that period of rest, when God planted the Garden. Many believe the Garden existed even before Genesis 1:1.

This Garden of Eden is planted after the period of rest. Now some think that Adam was a seperate creation or the only human created. God took one son of God and placed that son of God into this newly planted Garden. Later God called that son of God, Adam which literally means mankind.

Adam had the name mankind, but was not the only son of God living on the earth. Later Eve was removed from Adam which formed two genders. Adam and Eve were one of a kind, but not the only humans.

Just to clarify that Eve was not another son of God also placed into the Garden with Adam.

 

[Davy]

Last night I realized for the first time that I was thinking the Antichrist was featured in chapter 12, but the dragon is the devil. The beast doesn't appear until chapter 13.

Well, actually, the coming Antichrist will be the 'devil' himself, literally on this earth. That is actually what the Scriptures are pointing to for the very end of this world. I know that sounds fantastic, and certainly does not align with what most preach in today's Churches, but we are at the time of the end, and God's Word about end time events is meant literally, not allegorically. The casting out of Rev.12:7-9 has not happened yet, and it will be a literal casting of Satan and his angels out of the heavenly dimension, down to our earth in our earthly dimension. He is coming to play GOD.

There are many titles in God's Word used for the 'devil'. The singular "antichrist", which per the Greek actually means the 'in place of Christ', is about the false one that comes to earth working great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world. Rev.13:4 per Jesus lays it out plainly that is the "dragon", which is just another title for the devil.

The idea of the singular "antichrist" comes from Apostle John in 1 John 2:18, as the first clause is John saying the brethren had already heard that "antichrist" shall come. (see John 14:30)

The "many antichrists" idea in the second clause represents Apostle Paul's "mystery of iniquity", the many that only claim to be Christ, or those that knowingly work for the devil.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, actually, the coming Antichrist will be the 'devil' himself, literally on this earth. That is actually what the Scriptures are pointing to for the very end of this world. I know that sounds fantastic, and certainly does not align with what most preach in today's Churches, but we are at the time of the end, and God's Word about end time events is meant literally, not allegorically. The casting out of Rev.12:7-9 has not happened yet, and it will be a literal casting of Satan and his angels out of the heavenly dimension, down to our earth in our earthly dimension. He is coming to play GOD.

There are many titles in God's Word used for the 'devil'. The singular "antichrist", which per the Greek actually means the 'in place of Christ', is about the false one that comes to earth working great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world. Rev.13:4 per Jesus lays it out plainly that is the "dragon", which is just another title for the devil.

The idea of the singular "antichrist" comes from Apostle John in 1 John 2:18, as the first clause is John saying the brethren had already heard that "antichrist" shall come. (see John 14:30)

The "many antichrists" idea in the second clause represents Apostle Paul's "mystery of iniquity", the many that only claim to be Christ, or those that knowingly work for the devil.

But 13 has the beast so who is that?

 

[Davy]

It is not only relevant, but biblically sound. You cannot discuss the identity of the Antichrist while totally ignoring the scriptural criteria pertinent to the truthful description and character, roots, location, motives, and history of the only entity that has fully met those criteria, and then expecting some future individual to do the same. It's impossible.

I never have... ignored Bible Scripture about the identity of the singular "antichrist" that Apostle John mentioned in his first clause of 1 John 2:18. It is YOU... that has gone off on a tangent of idiotic doctrinal 'guesses' from men's doctrines about that word antichrist, which those men couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag. Oh, and by the way, I am NOT a "Futurist". That fact that you would TRY that false claim with suggesting that's the doctrine where I'm coming from just reveals yet again how you are 'stuck' on men's seminary doctrines instead of staying in God's Word 'as written'.

But it's obvious your tactic above is to try to INFER someone who actually is 'staying' with the Scripture as written, as instead following "Futurism". To be a Futurist per men's idiotic seminary doctrines, one MUST be a believer on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. I do NOT believe in any such idea, and why? Because it is NOT written in God's Word.

And neither are the false ideas written that you've been taught to believe about Apostle John's singular "antichrist" idea of 1 John 2:18.

For example. No future individual can grow from pagan Rome such as the little horn did. And everyone agrees that they little horn of Daniel 7 is the Antichrist.

There's that "everyone agrees", like the world is flat argument, silly.

The "little horn" prophecy in Daniel 7 & 8 is about the final SINGULAR "antichrist" person that John said the brethren had already heard shall come. I never said that "little horn" prophecy wasn't about the antichrist.

Thus you are falsely PROJECTING again.

It simply isn't possible for the Antichrist to be anything other than a Roman entity. All Rome. And only Rome.

Are you saying the world is flat again, like "everyone knows" such and such is true?

It actually IS... impossible for the coming "antichrist" to be a Roman pope, or ANY flesh-born man.

In Revelation 13:4, Christ revealed that the whole world will worship "the dragon". You never answered my question of who is that "dragon" per God's Word...

Rev 13:4
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
KJV

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

This is SO... easy when one decides to follow God's Word as written, instead of heeding a bunch of confusion from men's seminary categories.

And the timing also is important. I mean, God is so good. He has given specific prophetic time frames in which the little horn fits. He can't be thrown into the future without doing incalculable violence to the prophecy. The little horn appearsafter the division of the Empire into 10 distinct kingdoms.

Nothing is written in God's Word about those fictional 10 kingdoms for the end that some today try to equate with European nations, etc. The "ten horns" prophecy is about TEN KINGS that reign CONCURRENTLY with the coming "antichrist" at the very END of this world. That's actually what the "little horn" prophecy is about, for the little horn is to come up among... the ten horns, and subdue 3 of them (not destroy, but subdue, i.e., control). The link to the very end about this is given in Revelation 17 specifically for the time when the "great whore" is setup for the END. And since Rev.18 & 19 reveals it will be Christ's future return that destroys... that Babylon Harlot, that PLACES those Rev.17 events for the very END of this world when Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord".

And it grows up among those ten, and then actively participates in disposing of 3 of them. Also, there is no time delay or gap between the iron of the legs of the image in Daniel 2 and the composite of iron and clay.

What is also interesting is the early church fathers who wrote in expectation of the Antichrist to appear as soon as imperial Rome was divided. They fully expected Rome to divide into 10 separate kingdoms, and the Antichrist to come up from among them... That is, in their midst. Some of them such as Jerome, were living at the time of the fall of Rome and the establishment of the barbarian nations in its place, but had yet to witness the fall of the 3 horns at the hands of the little horn. This came just a little later. No, NO, future entity, be it group, institution, or individual, can meet that very specific criteria. Only a Roman institution can.

The PROTESTANT REFORMERS thought the pope in THEIR DAY (15th-16th centuries Europe) was the "antichrist", simply because of the Catholic persecution of the Protestants. My French ancestors fled 16th century France and came to the Americas because of that religious persecution by the Catholic Church in France. But it turned out that the pope in the days of the Reformers WAS NOT THE ANTICHRIST prophesied to come at the VERY END OF THIS WORLD. They were WRONG.

So what do the dupes today do, who try to carry on those old Reformation theories that the pope is the Antichrist? They try... and bring up pagan Rome in comparison with today's Catholic Church! And all the time those behind this new-Reformed strategy are false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan". That's who is behind all that today, because the Catholic Church back in those days and before, persecuted the orthodox Jews, and the European nations ejected the unbelieving Jews and made them live like vagabonds, moving from country to country.

 

[Davy]

But 13 has the beast so who is that?

You do realize that there's 2 different 'beasts' described in Rev.13, right?

The 1st beast of Rev.13:1 has "ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns", and although English Bible translations use pronouns like "his" there, that 1st beast is actually about a 'kingdom beast'. It comes up out of the "sea", and in Rev.17:15 Lord Jesus showed the "waters" which the great whore sits over represent peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. We are also told in Rev.17 the "seven heads" represent "seven mountains", meaning 7 geographic areas upon the earth. The "ten horns" we are told also are "ten kings".

So ask yourself, are those above things about a singular Antichrist beast, or about a system beast, like a kingdom covering all peoples and nations?


Then starting at Rev.13:11 is a new 'beast' subject. It is about "another beast", and that means a 2nd beast idea. The description with this 2nd beast is about a singular entity. He comes LIKE a lamb (Jesus), but speaks as a "dragon". And who is the "dragon" of Rev.12:9? Satan, the devil himself.

That "another beast" comes working signs and miracles, raining fire down from heaven to the earth in the sight of men. He comes to deceive the whole world by those miracles he had power to do. So do you know of ANY flesh-born man that has ever done that deceiving of the whole world using miracle working in plain sight, on this earth? Lord Jesus and His Apostles worked miracles, but that certainly was not in order to deceive the world. Has there been any single individual having done that in past history, or today? No. So that "another beast" is about the coming Antichrist for the very end of this world, the one Jesus warned us about for the time of "great tribulation" per Matthew 24:23-26.

 

[Brakelite]

Hi @Davy . First, it is good that you reject the so called rapture theory, a false concept I also disagree with.
I also agree with your kind of thinking regarding Satan as being the ultimate Antichrist, for even in heaven before creation when he was known as Lucifer, Satan coveted the position and throne of Christ. The root meaning of the word Antichrist being in place of, or instead of... Christ. And by replacing Christ, you oppose Him.
Because Christ is now in heaven, Satan cannot oppose Him in person, so He resorted to do so through His people. First it was through open persecution, and he directed that through two agencies...first the Jews, and then Pagan Rome. However, despite the cruelties and suffering inflicted, this tactic only resulted in the church exponentially growing throughout the world. By the 5th century, the gospel had reached as far as China in the east, and Britain in the west. Having therefore failed to accomplish his goal, to destroy the church, He changed tack and attacked the church through compromise and deception. Thus in the 5th century we saw the rise of the papacy, after several centuries of compromise, the church in Rome eventually joined itself to the state power, forming a union of church and state which over the centuries enforced doctrine through law and the strength of civil armies and military action.
I also agree with you that Satan covets worship, and scripture declares unequivocally that he will succeed in receiving the worship of the whole world... Except for a small minority called the remnant of the seed of Jesus, who 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, (the spirit of prophecy)'. (Revel. 12:17;14:12; 19:10)
Obviously however, Satan cannot walk into the local church, stand in the pulpit and demand, "worship me". That ain't gonna happen. Yet Thessalonians 2 does state that the son of perdition will enter the church and receive worship as God. It is interesting to note that the only other son of perdition named in scripture was Judas. An insider. Member of the leadership of the church. And John later declared that the Antichrist would come from within, not from outside the church.
So how is Satan going to get the worship he so insanely desires? (Remember, he even tried to get Jesus to worship him... The Creator worship the creature? How did Satan think he could succeed in that one? Be deceiving Jesus into tempting Jesus to think that He was Satan, and Satan the true son. Occult Luciferianism believe that today. Such a deception isn't far fetched... Thankfully, it didn't work, the Father had not long before declared to Jesus, you are My beloved Son. Jesus had that to hold on to. In His emaciated and poor mental state at the time of the temptation, Satan took advantage...
I believe Satan did the same a long time ago when he established the papacy. The church was wasted through persecution. It was tired. Hungry for peace. Constantine's and later Justinian's approval and lawful enactments in the pope's favour gave the church, at least in Rome and Alexandria, the rest it wanted. And the power. Thus Antichrist was formed. Satan's clone, his baby. Identical in the various metaphors that scripture reveal, yet a different beast. Revelation 16 reveals a 3-fold union... The Dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Satan... Catholicism... And apostate Protestantism. That union is coming together as we speak. The Dragon through spiritualism and the occult, the Vatican and apostate Protestantism along with all other religions of the world joining together through ecumenism. The daughters (the protestant churches along with Islam... Yes, a daughter also) are coming home to Mother. So Satan will receive the worship he craves for through proxy. They (the world), worshipped the dragon, and they worshipped the beast...

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul, and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of Spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.
As Spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of Spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.
The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church-members love what the world loves, and are ready to join with them; and Satan determines to unite them in one body, and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of Spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union* a grand movement for the conversion of the world, and the ushering in of the long-expected millennium.

* Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the World.

 

[Brakelite]

Composites. We see them everywhere. They are all about us. They are called people. Every single person on the planet is a composite of his ancestors. DNA inherited from the sum total of all who have gone before make up what we are today. Although we are individuals, and unique, that uniqueness is bound up in our inherited genes.
With that in mind I would like to discuss one of the most intriguing composites on the planet. Not an individual, but an institution. Described as a 'beast' in the book of Revelation in chapter 13, this beast has had many Biblical scholars both university educated and self taught, deeply embroiled in debate, argument, and discussion for nearly 2000 years. This beast has been the focus of attention with far more intensity in the past 150 years or so as the church recognises the signs of the second coming approaching, thus study with more interest those prophecies which reveal events, and characters which are pertinent to the 'last days'.
It is the nature of the composites, those things which form the beast, that I will focus on in this post. I have dealt extensively elswhere with the prophecies of Daniel, linking the characteristics of the 'little horn' power of Daniel 7 with those of the papacy, and as we will see here, the beast of Revelation 13 likewise mirrors those characteristics.
Revelation 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Revel. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
We see here a kingdom rising up in a populous part of the earth, in this case the capital of the then superpower, Rome.
When compared with...
Revel.12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
...we see that whatever this beast is, it is a clone of Satan, the dragon, himself. This is his baby so to speak, his own creation, made after his own likeness.
Revel. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
The Apostle John from his vantage point was looking backwards in time and seeing the same beasts of Daniel 7 only in reverse order. Daniel was looking forward, John back. Thus what John was seeing was a beast that had already begun to rise to power in his day. This gels with his comment in one of his letters that states that " even now are there many antichrists". The spirit that gave rise to the one Antichrist had begun to develop and was seen in several different forms in Johns lifetime. This beast is a composite of all that had gone before. Those characteristics which marked the uniqueness and nature of the previous powers were now resident in this one.
Like unto a leopard....Nothing in nature, be they plants, animals, reptiles, birds, nor fish, can lie, not having the power of speech, but they can deceive. Deception is attained through appearance, or camouflage. And deception Jesus said, would be Satan's principle weapon of choice in the last days. The leopard is a prime example of camouflage. The leopard, unlike the tiger or the lion, for the most part does not stalk its prey. It patiently lies in wait, in all appearance an innocent part of the foliage, until its prey come to him, then the leopard strikes. The papacy is of very similar character. An attractive and seemingly innocent part of the Christian landscape, but deceptively dangerous. Patience is the hallmark of the Catholic church. For 400 years she has waited for the counter reformation to bear fruit, and today we witness hundreds of priests and lay people from other faiths and denominations now returning to the 'mother church'. Hundreds of years she has waited for her opportunity to rise again to her former glory. Her ambitions are now global, take note of the following from a very recent news report: The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a "global public authority" and a "central world bank" (CBDCs) to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.....A proposal by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the "achievement of a universal common good." It follows Pope BenedictXVI's 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown.

Read more: Vatican Calls For Global Authority On Economy | Fox Business
Isn't this interesting? Particularly when one considers the prophetic implications of an international authority with the power to enforce a religious mark using economic boycotts to encourage subservience. Note the current headlines in financial magazines regarding CBDCs. Global currency... Global governance.
Notice one more thing about leopards. Jesus Himself significantly remarked that a leopard cannot change her spots. It is worthwhile to note that many protestants today would claim that the papacy has changed. That she has mellowed from her former harsh judgemental attitudes which marked her history throughout the dark ages. But can a leopard change her character? No.Jer. 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The feet of a bear....
Death is, until the resurrection, like a deep dreamless sleep. In 1798 the papacy, as we saw previously, received its deadly head-wound (Verse 3) when the then pope was taken captive by the French, and the Catholic church 'ceased to range over the country-side' like a bear and went into hibernation until 1929 when Mussolini returned to the Vatican, and the pope, the civil power which had been taken from her. Once again she was a church/state power, the unique distinction which marks her pagan beginnings.The feet and claws of a bear are her most powerful weapons: one strike can rip open her prey, killing instantly. The injunction in Daniel 7:5 of the bear/Media-Persia to "devour much flesh" is very apt when applied to such a beast as a bear which has a ravenous appetite especially after hibernation. Whether in hibernation, or as a leopard or bear, whether in patient hiding or as a ravenous beast on the hunt, the Vatican will do whatever is necessary to achieve her goals...global dominion.An interesting point regarding this particular bear. The Media/Persians, which nation was represented by the bear in Daniel, were renowned as lawmakers.
Daniel 6:8 Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.
"Why does the Catholic church not recant what was said by Trent...because it is Catholic teaching that a council teaches authoritatively, and the church is not authorised to repudiate retrospectively a conciliar decree".John Neuhaus.
Every principle of the papacy that existed in past ages exists today.The doctrines devised in the darkest ages are still held. The leopard has not, indeed cannot, change her spots. The laws, canons, and various decrees which vaunted the papal power's presumed authority to torture, to wage war, and to destroy all who believe in their God given right to freedom of conscience, still exist today. Not one has been abrogated or altered. Their own dogma regarding infallibility forbids any change to that which has been officially legislated as articles of doctrine in the dogmas and canons of the Catholic Church. The inquisition, torture, and burning of heretics in past ages are still looked upon by the ruling councils of the Vatican as justifiable, lawful, and at times even necessary.
mouth of a lion....
Ask a native of Africa what the most fearsome sound is in the African bush and all would agree that it is the roar of the lion. Various bulls and pronouncements from popes and his representatives have for centuries sent chills of fear and dread down the spines of kings and common man alike. There was a time, until the late 18th century, when a pronouncement of excommunication from the church could send an entire nation into a state of fear of eternal damnation in the fires of hell. Like the devil, "as a roaring lion walketh about seeking who he may devour" the papacy has no true authority in spiritual matters. It is the fear, rather than the popes words themselves, that has destroyed the faith of millions. "But we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but rather the spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15) "and of power, and of love, and a sound mind". (2 Tim. 1:7) Notice the mouth "speaking great things and blasphemies" (Rev.13:15). Since its re-establishment in 1929, the Vatican has slowly but surely wooed herself into becoming once again a world power, and presidents and royalty alike present themselves to the pope bowing before him, kissing the ring upon his finger, and wait in awe and reverence to hear his words...."and all the world wonders after the beast". (Revel. 13:5)

 

[Brakelite]

The "little horn" prophecy in Daniel 7 & 8 is about the final SINGULAR "antichrist" person that John said the brethren had already heard shall come. I never said that "little horn" prophecy wasn't about the antichrist.

You were flinging the timing of the appearance of the Antichrist into the future, which is an impossibility because that little horn grew out of the head of pagan Rome, in the midst of the 10 barbarian nations that planted themselves, 7 permanently, within the boundaries of the former Empire. Pagan Rome no longer exists as a living active beast/nation/Empire, therefore the expectation that some future entity can grow from it is unfounded.

 

[Hobie]

It is not only relevant, but biblically sound. You cannot discuss the identity of the Antichrist while totally ignoring the scriptural criteria pertinent to the truthful description and character, roots, location, motives, and history of the only entity that has fully met those criteria, and then expecting some future individual to do the same. It's impossible. For example. No future individual can grow from pagan Rome such as the little horn did. And everyone agrees that they little horn of Daniel 7 is the Antichrist. It simply isn't possible for the Antichrist to be anything other than a Roman entity. All Rome. And only Rome.
And the timing also is important. I mean, God is so good. He has given specific prophetic time frames in which the little horn fits. He can't be thrown into the future without doing incalculable violence to the prophecy. The little horn appearsafter the division of the Empire into 10 distinct kingdoms. And it grows up among those ten, and then actively participates in disposing of 3 of them. Also, there is no time delay or gap between the iron of the legs of the image in Daniel 2 and the composite of iron and clay.

What is also interesting is the early church fathers who wrote in expectation of the Antichrist to appear as soon as imperial Rome was divided. They fully expected Rome to divide into 10 separate kingdoms, and the Antichrist to come up from among them... That is, in their midst. Some of them such as Jerome, were living at the time of the fall of Rome and the establishment of the barbarian nations in its place, but had yet to witness the fall of the 3 horns at the hands of the little horn. This came just a little later. No, NO, future entity, be it group, institution, or individual, can meet that very specific criteria. Only a Roman institution can.

And it has to be with us till it meets its complete destruction at end which we see in this apostate entity today.

 

[Davy]

Because Christ is now in heaven, Satan cannot oppose Him in person, so He resorted to do so through His people. First it was through open persecution, and he directed that through two agencies...first the Jews, and then Pagan Rome. However, despite the cruelties and suffering inflicted, this tactic only resulted in the church exponentially growing throughout the world. By the 5th century, the gospel had reached as far as China in the east, and Britain in the west. Having therefore failed to accomplish his goal, to destroy the church, He changed tack and attacked the church through compromise and deception. Thus in the 5th century we saw the rise of the papacy, after several centuries of compromise, the church in Rome eventually joined itself to the state power, forming a union of church and state which over the centuries enforced doctrine through law and the strength of civil armies and military action.

It seems you are forgetting a very important Biblical fact; God is Who is sending Satan literally among the world in plain sight for the end of this world. Satan is merely a 'tool' God is using, and nothing more. Using the title of "the Assyrian" as a type, God even pointed to Satan as "the rod of Mine anger" in Isaiah 10. What Satan is going to accomplish for the end is cause a bunch of 'pruning' of the dead branches in Christ's Church. Brethren not aware of this are mostly those who don't listen to God in His Word, and instead allow men's doctrines to control their understanding.

Obviously however, Satan cannot walk into the local church, stand in the pulpit and demand, "worship me". That ain't gonna happen. Yet Thessalonians 2 does state that the son of perdition will enter the church and receive worship as God. It is interesting to note that the only other son of perdition named in scripture was Judas. An insider. Member of the leadership of the church. And John later declared that the Antichrist would come from within, not from outside the church.

You constantly default to men's doctrines and away from the actual Scriptures with statements like that above one in red. I well know about men's theories regarding "antichrist", but most of them do not fit actual Bible Scripture. Many instead would rather teach the subject of the "antichrist" like it is some 'invisible evil force', and not a real entity that will work great signs, wonders, and miracles on earth to deceive the whole world, as written.

The actual Scripture points to this:
Apostle John in 1 John 2:18 stated that brethren then had 'already heard' that "antichrist" shall come. John didn't say 'where'... he would come. In John 14:30 where Jesus, just prior to His crucifixion, warned that the "prince of this world cometh", that was not concerning Christ's crucifixion, but "Hereafter", like He said there. Apostle John obviously understood what Jesus was saying there, and had already let the brethren know that the "prince of this world cometh", like Jesus warned. That is the "antichrist" John was pointing to that the brethren had already heard shall come, the devil himself.

Satan is coming, like Jesus warned. My Christian brethren can heed His warning, or be deceived. Each must choose who they listen to, God's written Word, or men's traditions.

So how is Satan going to get the worship he so insanely desires? (Remember, he even tried to get Jesus to worship him... The Creator worship the creature? How did Satan think he could succeed in that one? Be deceiving Jesus into tempting Jesus to think that He was Satan, and Satan the true son. Occult Luciferianism believe that today. Such a deception isn't far fetched... Thankfully, it didn't work, the Father had not long before declared to Jesus, you are My beloved Son. Jesus had that to hold on to. In His emaciated and poor mental state at the time of the temptation, Satan took advantage...
I believe Satan did the same a long time ago when he established the papacy. The church was wasted through persecution. It was tired. Hungry for peace. Constantine's and later Justinian's approval and lawful enactments in the pope's favour gave the church, at least in Rome and Alexandria, the rest it wanted. And the power. Thus Antichrist was formed. Satan's clone, his baby. Identical in the various metaphors that scripture reveal, yet a different beast. Revelation 16 reveals a 3-fold union... The Dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Satan... Catholicism... And apostate Protestantism. That union is coming together as we speak. The Dragon through spiritualism and the occult, the Vatican and apostate Protestantism along with all other religions of the world joining together through ecumenism. The daughters (the protestant churches along with Islam... Yes, a daughter also) are coming home to Mother. So Satan will receive the worship he craves for through proxy. They (the world), worshipped the dragon, and they worshipped the beast...

And there it is again, an attack upon the Catholic Church and the pope, which is nothing but deceptions from men's doctrines. I'm a Protestant, and as I have said before, my Christian roots go back to the Protestant rebellion in 16th century France with my ancestors who fled to America. But I'm not going to be duped by the 'false Jews' into a hatred against the Catholic Church and the pope because of that religious system following questionable doctrines. Like Apostle John said, there are "many antichrists", just as many among the Protestant system as among the Catholic system.

But NONE of them are THE Antichrist INDIVIDUAL which God's Word warns is to come at the end of this world working miracles to deceive the whole world.

The pope and Roman Church does NOT... represent the coming Antichrist. And NO pope is going to sit as king-Messiah over the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem for the end. That idea is completely silly, and totally leaves... the actual Bible prophecies about the end which culminate in JERUSALEM.

 

[Davy]

WARNING TO BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
It's important to understand what God's Word as written says about the coming false one for the very end of this world, i.e., the Antichrist, or "dragon", or "little horn", or "vile person", or "man of sin", or "son of perdition", or the "another beast", or "that Wicked", or "that old serpent", the "beast" that "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition", etc. Those are all... titles for the same false one coming at the end of this world, for the time of "great tribulation" just prior to Lord Jesus' return. That coming false one which Lord Jesus warned us about is Satan, or Lucifer.

God's Word points to Satan coming as a "king" (Rev.9:11; Isaiah 30:31-33; indirect reference to Satan as her king husband by the Babylon Harlot in Rev.18:7 saying she is no widow, and sits a queen, meaning she is married to a king (Satan); per Daniel 8:23 about "the king of fierce countenance" at the end; the "vile person" of Dan.11:21 that will obtain the kingdom at the end using flatteries; Rev.17 with the 7th beast king, which will be Satan, and also as the 8th beast king for after the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Satan is loosed to deceive the nations one last time, per Rev.20:7-9).

Satan has the image of man, just as God's Own outward likeness and appearance is that of a 'man', the image He created us and the angels also with.

Angels can appear on earth with their Heavenly image of 'man'. That means men's stupid ideas that an angel has to put on a human flesh form to appear on earth is bogus, and just a design to get you away from understanding how those in the Heavenly dimension can appear in OUR earthly dimension, just as Lord Jesus and the two angels with Him appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18, and they ate the food Abraham prepared for them.

In Isaiah 14, God called Lucifer as just "a man", and not God. Satan can actually 'appear' on earth in our dimension, with his image of 'man' that God originally created him with.

In Matthew 24:23-26, Lord Jesus is actually warning about Satan coming during the "great tribulation", working great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That last point is key, because Christ's very elect are 'sealed' for the end, and cannot be deceived. Yet almost, means that pseudo-Christ will work great miracles that the whole world will believe only GOD could do, and that would tempt even Christ's very elect, IF it were possible. Many Churches today have already fallen into that 'signs' and 'miracles' trap. They have left The Word of God and are relying on signs and miracles instead now.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Apostle Paul was warning about Satan coming as the "man of sin", and "son of perdition", and as "that Wicked". Paul also REPEATED Christ's warning about the false-Messiah coming with working "all power and signs and lying wonders", which was the same warning Lord Jesus gave in Matthew 24:23-26 about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah.

The "son of perdition" title belongs to Satan. Jesus used it for Judas who betrayed Him, but that title actually belongs to the devil. Per John 6:70, Jesus also called Judas Iscariot "a devil". But Judas actually isn't really 'the' devil, is he? Nor is Judas the real "son of perdition", otherwise, why would Apostle Paul use that "son of perdition" title in 2 Thessalonians 2 long after... Judas had been dead?? The answer to this mystery is very simple; the idea of 'perdition' involving Satan is about his already having been judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire". Now Judas Iscariot has not... been judged and sentenced to perish yet, no flesh-born man has yet, because that decision will only happen after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect, at God's Great White Throne Judgment. As of today, Satan and his angels ONLY, have already been judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire". So don't let your minds wander and think that means the wicked who reject Christ won't perish also, they will IF they still reject Jesus all the way to the end of His future "thousand years" reign.

The "man of sin" idea Paul used ought to be easy. Who actually was guilty of the very 1st sin, ever? Satan was, when He rebelled in the old world by coveting God's Throne, wanting to be God. And remember, Satan has the image of 'man' also.

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, which is about the very end of this world when the "image of the beast" is setup along with the "mark of the beast" in false worship. That's yet another pointer to Satan himself as that "another beast". He will be a 'beast king' even, over all nations and peoples for the end, just like the Rev.13:4-8 Scripture declares. In the "another beast" prophecy, he is to deceive the whole world by those miracles he will have power to do. He will rain fire down from heaven, "in the sight of men". Why that "in the sight of men" phrase? If we on earth see fire rain down from heaven, wouldn't that be in our sight, simply? Yeah, so what's so special about that idea? It is because it will be Satan himself, here on earth, in plain sight, doing those miracles among us, with the image of man.

Obviously, there's so many pointers in God's Word that the "prince of this world cometh" (i.e., Satan), and that Satan will literally appear with the image of man upon this earth among us, working miracles to deceive, that it really makes those fabricators of stories outside of God's Word really appear foolish!

 

[Davy]

You were flinging the timing of the appearance of the Antichrist into the future, which is an impossibility because that little horn grew out of the head of pagan Rome, in the midst of the 10 barbarian nations that planted themselves, 7 permanently, within the boundaries of the former Empire. Pagan Rome no longer exists as a living active beast/nation/Empire, therefore the expectation that some future entity can grow from it is unfounded.

You are the one doing the "flinging" with men's silly doctrines about Rome and a pope. It ain't going to happen the way your Jewish brethren are telling you. So don't think I'm not aware of who you are actually listening to instead of The Word of God.

 

[Hobie]

You were flinging the timing of the appearance of the Antichrist into the future, which is an impossibility because that little horn grew out of the head of pagan Rome, in the midst of the 10 barbarian nations that planted themselves, 7 permanently, within the boundaries of the former Empire. Pagan Rome no longer exists as a living active beast/nation/Empire, therefore the expectation that some future entity can grow from it is unfounded.

Yes, we read it in history of that there is no question of what happened at the passing of the Roman Empire, which is represented by a beast with iron teeth and 10 horns. The 10 barbarian nations are the 10 horns which represent kings or kingdoms into which pagan Rome was eventually split. Seven of those 10 tribes developed into the countries of modern Western Europe, while three were “uprooted” and destroyed.

Visigoths - Spain

Anglo-Saxons - England

Franks - France

Alemani - Germany

Burgundians - Switzerland

Lombards - Italy

Suevi - Portugal

And the three kingdoms that were rooted up.

Heruli - Rooted up

Ostrogoths - Rooted up

Vandals - Rooted up

So we look what happens next in this timeline.
“I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words” (Daniel 7:8).

So it clearly says the “little horn” power appears next and is led by a man, and history shows who this "little horn" power is because the biblical characteristics identify it as the antichrist of prophecy and history. Papal Rome, it comes after the Roman Empire and fits all the given points. We see three kingdoms plucked up to make way for the rise of the papacy, the Vandals, Heruli, and Ostrogoths. The kingdom of the Arian Heruls was eradicated in 493. Then Emperor Justinian exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and slowly broke apart the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus Daniel’s three horns, the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoth, plucked up by the roots.

It would emerge from the fading Roman Empire and would make war with and persecute the saints.History definitely pinpoints this and then the warring on the saints, as the church did persecute the Christians who didnt follow its dictates as heretics, and the papacy admits doing so. It would speak "pompous words" of blasphemy "against [God]."
Blasphemy has two definitions in Scripture:

1. Claiming to forgive sins (Luke 5:21).

2. Claiming to be God (John 10:33).

So does this point fit the papacy? Yes it does. So we can see who is this Antichrist power, and when it came up and is still with us.

 

[Hobie]

This is good reading...

"The creation of the term “papal supremacy” dates back to the 6th century, at the time of the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which was the beginning of the rise of the bishops of Rome to not just the position religious authority, but the power to be the ultimate ruler of the kingdoms within the Christian community (Christendom), which it has since retained."

The Development of Papal Supremacy | Western Civilization

courses.lumenlearning.com

 

[Davy]

Yes, we read it in history of that there is no question of what happened at the passing of the Roman Empire, which is represented by a beast with iron teeth and 10 horns. The 10 barbarian nations are the 10 horns which represent kings or kingdoms into which pagan Rome was eventually split. Seven of those 10 tribes developed into the countries of modern Western Europe, while three were “uprooted” and destroyed.

Visigoths - Spain

Anglo-Saxons - England

Franks - France

Alemani - Germany

Burgundians - Switzerland

Lombards - Italy

Suevi - Portugal

And the three kingdoms that were rooted up.

Heruli - Rooted up

Ostrogoths - Rooted up

Vandals - Rooted up

So we look what happens next in this timeline.
“I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words” (Daniel 7:8).

So it clearly says the “little horn” power appears next and is led by a man, and history shows who this "little horn" power is because the biblical characteristics identify it as the antichrist of prophecy and history. Papal Rome, it comes after the Roman Empire and fits all the given points. We see three kingdoms plucked up to make way for the rise of the papacy, the Vandals, Heruli, and Ostrogoths. The kingdom of the Arian Heruls was eradicated in 493. Then Emperor Justinian exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and slowly broke apart the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus Daniel’s three horns, the Heruli, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoth, plucked up by the roots.

It would emerge from the fading Roman Empire and would make war with and persecute the saints.History definitely pinpoints this and then the warring on the saints, as the church did persecute the Christians who didnt follow its dictates as heretics, and the papacy admits doing so. It would speak "pompous words" of blasphemy "against [God]."
Blasphemy has two definitions in Scripture:

1. Claiming to forgive sins (Luke 5:21).

2. Claiming to be God (John 10:33).

So does this point fit the papacy? Yes it does. So we can see who is this Antichrist power, and when it came up and is still with us.

The above prophecy is just ignorance, period.

The European nations above are CHRISTIAN NATIONS, not... pagan nations from the pagan Roman empire! I wonder what ignorant false Jew thought that junk up.

So the devout Christian ought... to see that above doctrine as a literal ATTACK upon the Christian nations! And who would most likely be behind that attack? The "synagogue of Satan" that Jesus mentioned in Rev.2 and Rev.3, those who SAY they are Jews, but are not, and do lie, but are the "synagogue of Satan". It's those that really HATE the western Christian nations of Europe (and its Christian allied nations), even to this day.