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Who Is "the Restrainer" In 2 Thess. 2:6-7

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Polar, May 11, 2009.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Yes ATP, I have held back from posting here as the Prophetic truth that I present is either ignored, construed as meaning something else or I just receive abuse.
    Not much has changed, you determinedly stick to your belief of Two People Two Promises, so as to keep the rapture to heaven theory alive. And what Is Michael but an agent/servant of God?

    Re who is Israel, the OT prophets did refer to the 12 tribes because they were unaware of God's plan to include gentiles, making all who believe in Him and in Jesus the righteous nation of Israel, while the Jews have lost the Kingdom. Matthew 21:43
    Be very careful to not violate scripture in your beliefs: The rapture to heaven - not going to happen: John 3:13, John 17:15, Rev 5:9-10, plus all the prophesies saying how the Lord's people will live in the holy Land.
    The 2P2P belief; there is only one people of God: John 17:22-23, Ephesians 4:4-6

    Believing in a rapture removal, makes what happened to Stephen, those fed to the lions, burned at the stake, shot by terrorists, etc, to be unnecessary and just because they lived before the last days, they died horribly, but now Christians won't? They were tested unto death, but you won't be?
    God does not change, Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8 The great trial and testing is coming, 1 Peter 4:12, Luke 21:34 and we should be prepared and know what it is the Lord will use on His Day of wrath.
     
  2. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    The Jews live in Jerusalem. Unless you took a swig of scotch, logged on and read my post I don't understand how you see different.
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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  4. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    But you yourself said those scriptures are future. :rolleyes:

     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    I re-read #415 and of the 11 passages you quote, only the last one mentions Jews. The rest tell us about the Lord's people, true Israel, yet to come into their heritage. And even the Zechariah one is future, it refers to the remnant; the Messianic Jews.

    You surely realize that the current inhabitants of all the holy Land are far from the people who the Lord wants there. Did you look at the prophesies, only a few of the many that say how the Lord will judge and punish Judah.
     
  6. Wormwood

    Wormwood Chaps Staff Member

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    Do you mean homosexual? Homophobic is the fear of homosexuals....homo (same) phobic (from phobia, meaning fear). So are you saying God will judge those who oppose or are fearful of homosexuality or were you trying to say God will judge those who practice it? Just seeking clarification.
     
  7. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Keras, they're all speaking of Jews. They speak of Jerusalem, Judah and the Tribes of Joseph, rebuilding ruined cities and towns, rebuilding walls and boundaries, settling them in their own land. Do you see it?
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Correction, yes I mean homosexual. Tel Aviv was voted the homosexual capital of the world for the 3rd time last year.
    Also a Pew research result says that only 18% of Jews actually believe in God. He will judge and punish the Jews. Isaiah 22:14
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    The tribes of Joseph are Ephraim and Manasseh, not Judah. The ten Northern tribes remain scattered among the nations, as many as the sands of the sea. They are the majority of the true Christians of the world, you and I will belong to one of them. All will be revealed when we go to live in the holy Land.

    Can't you see that Christians are Israelites? I posted 79 verses proving that.
    When we do live in Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, the Jewish remnant with us will be so ashamed, they will not open their mouths. Ezekiel 16:63
     
  10. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Well, Rom 11:25-31 and Matt 24:16 prove you incorrect. Gentiles and Israel are separate, and I'm certainly not moving to Judea.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Galatians 4:26-29....so if you belong to Christ, you are the issue of Abraham and heirs to the promises of God to Israel. REB Clear enough?

    Romans 11:25-31 is in perfect accordance with Rev. 5:9-10 and Rev 7:9, where it is people from every tribe, race, nation and language who will inhabit the holy Land.
    In Matthew 24:16, I see that as having been fulfilled, as we read in Luke 21:20-24; by the Roman conquest in 70AD. The Matthew passage does seem to tell of a still future final fulfilment, when the AoD is placed in the new Temple and again, those in Judea must escape. But at this future time, there will be far more there than just Jews.

    No, we are not to go to Israel yet, when the right time comes you will know. Isaiah 11:11-16, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 30:18-21, Psalm 68:7-10
     
  12. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    So why do you ignore Roman 11:13-22?
     
  13. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    ATP, in order for the Holy Spirit to "guide you into all truth", He must first lead us out of error. Unfortunately, Cognitive Dissonance too often gets in the way of Him.

    For instance, you along with most other Christians believe that Jesus will come "as a thief in the night" to Rapture the church and the 70th Week of Daniel will commence. Phoneman777 comes along and, under the aegis of the Holy Spirit, shows you all that Peter's description of when Jesus comes as a thief in the night is far different than what you all teach and believe: "But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Phoneman777 concludes that the events you and the others claim will happen after Jesus comes as a thief cannot possibly take place on Earth because the Earth will be absolutely destroyed when Jesus comes as a thief.

    At this point, Cognitive Dissonance sets in - and too often the desire to hold onto long cherished Jesuit Futurist beliefs outweighs the necessity to test every spiritual proposition with Scripture. Therefore, Jesuit Futurism is retained and the need to test everything against the Bible dissolves in the process. I've actually heard someone say that Jesus will come as a thief "two times', first in the Rapture and then at the Second Coming. When I asked him how can He come as a thief a second time when there would be a giant "7 Year Countdown to the Second Coming" clock erected at Times Square in New York, he realized how embarrassingly thin his claim was and never responded. I hope he decided to reconsider his Jesuit ideas.
     
  14. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Paul calls the church, "the Israel of God". I think Christians should really ask themselves whether the Holy Spirit would inspire the Bible writers to refer to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem where the resumed sacrificial system there would be an official, national middle finger in the face of Him, as "the temple of God." No, the only "temple of God" that will ever exist is the church, comprised of "lively stones", Christians.
     
  15. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    .
     
  16. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    I can see why you guys believe God is done with the Jews, the devil or antichrist spirit hates them. The Jews are hated because God has reached out to humanity through them. The Messiah, the Bible, the Ten Commandments, God's plan of redemption for mankind; all came to mankind through the nation Israel.

    Satan has tried to wipe out the Jews through the Babylonians, the Persians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Hittites, and the Nazis. But he’s failed every time. God is not finished with Israel. Romans 11:26 tells us that some day all Israel will be saved, and this cannot come to pass if Israel no longer exists. Therefore, God will preserve the Jews for the future, just as He has preserved their remnant throughout history, until His final plan comes to pass. Nothing can thwart God’s plan for Israel and the Jewish people. http://www.gotquestions.org/anti-Semitism.html

    And 3,072 posts later and ten years later I'm still sealed in the Holy Spirit. Praise God. - ATP :rolleyes:
     
  17. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    A brain, not an Antichrist spirit, is all that is needed to understand who Israel is, and it's got nothing to do with the people who still today call Jesus "The Great Imposter" and "son of a whore".
     
  18. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    A brain is all that is needed to understand who the antichrist spirit is, and how he works. The devil hates Jews and so do you. 1+1=? :)
     
  19. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Bro, the Antichrist is actually responsible for the confusion over who Israel is.

    The Papal Antichrist power in Rome, by virtue of the misguided Jesuit Francisco Ribera, is responsible for your belief that Israel in prophecy has to do with the "literal" descendants of Abraham rather than the true descendants of Abraham - they who belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29 KJV).

    It was the Jesuit Ribera who claimed Israel would be re-established as a nation.
    It was the Jesuit Ribera who transported the 70th Week of Daniel into the future.
    It was the Jesuit Ribera who claimed that Israel would rebuild a temple, start up the sacrificial system, and that a evil Antichrist man would first make and then break a treaty with Israel and the Arabs.

    So, it is not at all the Spirit of Antichrist which leads men to reject your beloved ideas - it is actually the Spirit of Antichrist which leads men to your ideas
     
  20. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    The antichrist spirit is not only filled with hate for the Jews, rather he loves confusion. He's an expert at it, and he's got you good "bro".
     
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