Who is the son?

[mjrhealth]

Jesus isn't God?

John 1 The Word was God.
The Word became flesh ...

No but He has the seed of God. Or God is lying and He never had a son, and Jesus never had God as His father

Joh_8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

John 5:18
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

I don't know what you're trying to say. I do know that this Scripture shows that the Jews were wrong in the way they looked at the scriptures because these Jews were stating that Jesus was breaking the sabbath. Which wasn't true. The Jews were in error in what they thought the scriptures were saying. The Jews were also wrong in saying that Jesus thought he was equal with God when he said God was his father

 

[Truther]

This isn't about any Bible. Interesting that you bring up some version of a Bible to try to justify attacking someone or judging someone. I will continue to tell people that they should speak to people about God and his Word, keeping in mind that like everyone else they are imperfect human beings who no matter how much they study the scriptures you can be wrong how you're looking at the scriptures. For anyone to believe they're infallible when it comes to what they have to say about God and his Word is just showing they believe themselves to be infallible like God. That's why people need to agree to disagree when they come across a person who will continue to disagree with them. People shouldn't attack someone just because they disagree with them. Also to take a Bible any Bible including the KJV to try to make out that the scriptures influences people to attack and judge, I don't think so. It's my belief that such people are about hate. They don't unite people in love but instead divides them. The thing we must remember is that God loved the world of mankind so much even though the world of mankind was treating God as though they were his enemies yet God still loved the world of mankind so much that he sent his Only Begotten Son to die for the world of mankind so that the world of mankind could be saved. The point is if God went this far in the cause of love to save mankind he would want us when speaking about God and his Word in such a way that you always remember the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. No one likes being judged or attacked and judging and attacking people is causing people to turn away from the truth because people are judging and attacking them. Those who are Christians want to bring people into the truth because they know that God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, so such people don't attack or judge people instead they speak to them in such a way that it's understood that each person is an individual that God's Only Begotten Son die for and should be spoken to with respect and when they disagree with you, understand that it is that individuals right to disagree. If you don't attack or judge them when they disagree with you but instead just agree to disagree you keep the door open that someone else may be able to reach them because you showed them respect and didn't attack or judge people because they disagreed with them.

Barney, take my advise and don't go door knocking.

Your brethren are used to debating and what goes along with it, and you are an emotional softie.

I usually get JW's a bit riled up in a street conversation by getting them to admit they vehemently disagree with the Apostle Thomas, who called Jesus "Lord and God".

They don't ever call stuff like that or arguments over the KJV vs the NWT, "judging".

What's your deal anyway?

Can't you stand your ground in a debate of your beliefs?

Listen, high power professional debates get rough, as well as theological debates.

Paul regularly got his "beak bent up" for arguing folk's need for the true God, but your idea of an argument would have had Paul send you home to help pass out food to the poor etc.

Even Stephen lost his life "attacking" the Sanhedrin.

I will accuse you of this one thing today....you deny Thomas, who said Jesus is God.

There....argue or weep.

 

[Truther]

thanks for the reply, second the ordinal First raised up ..... the BODY of the Lord Jesus, supportive scripture, John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?"
John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." BINGO.
John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"
John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body." (WHO'S BODY? "HIS OWN BODY). BINGO AGAIN.
John 2:22 "When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

see you had no clue that JESUS, the ordinal "First" raised up his own body .... did you? ...... you want to try again?

boy oh boy I just love this.

PICJAG.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works....

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Question, did the Father speak THROUGH Jesus, or AS Jesus?

 

[Truther]

This is a christian forum all you have to do is mention Christ, who cares what bible you use, the truth is in Jesus, who seems to be refused my many learned men. God and Christ could care less if you know the bible, all you need to do is know the son, but men love to brag.

Then let them brag on the KJV.

Can you imagine for a moment if this forum had no Bible available to discuss their topics?

What a zoo of ideas it would devolve into?

Think of what it would look like.

If Jesus tarries another 100 years, and the KJV is gone, with new translations yearly created, it will be nuts here.

 

[Truther]

Uncharitably misrepresenting / slandering me doesn’t remotely convince me or anyone else to accept your POV (or see it being what’s taught in scripture).

Neither is that “just using the kjv “.

Is Trumps "build the wall" motto slanderous to his detractors?

 

[Truther]

Jesus isn't God?

John 1 The Word was God.
The Word became flesh ...

The Spirit(Holy Ghost) became flesh(microscopic cell)?

Reeeallly???

I thought Jesus was full of the Holy Ghost and led of the Holy Ghost per Luke 4:1....now you say he was the Holy Ghost and filled and led himself.

My bad.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney, take my advise and don't go door knocking.

Your brethren are used to debating and what goes along with it, and you are an emotional softie.

I usually get JW's a bit riled up in a street conversation by getting them to admit they vehemently disagree with the Apostle Thomas, who called Jesus "Lord and God".

They don't ever call stuff like that or arguments over the KJV vs the NWT, "judging".

What's your deal anyway?

Can't you stand your ground in a debate of your beliefs?

Listen, high power professional debates get rough, as well as theological debates.

Paul regularly got his "beak bent up" for arguing folk's need for the true God, but your idea of an argument would have had Paul send you home to help pass out food to the poor etc.

Even Stephen lost his life "attacking" the Sanhedrin.

I will accuse you of this one thing today....you deny Thomas, who said Jesus is God.

There....argue or weep.

There is something remarkable about Stephen’s countenance at this moment. The judges gaze at him and see that his face is “as an angel’s face.” Acts 6:15 Angels bear messages from Jehovah God and thus have reason to be fearless, serene, and peaceful. So it is with Stephen—even those hate-filled judges can see that. How can he be so calm?

Stephen didn't attack no one. He boldly defended the truth yes, he defended the truth in such a way that none of his accusers could hold their own against the wisdom the Holy Spirit had empowered the disciple Stephen with.

I can stand my own when it comes to my beliefs. I just don't judge or attack people when they disagree with me. I know God nor his Only Begotten Son wants me to judge or attack anyone.

Also those who you say get rough in theological or professional debates know they have already lost that debate, why else would they get so rough. You also need to understand that the Apostle Paul didn't attack anyone but instead spoke boldly about the truth about God and his Only Begotten Son.

Also I don't know any JW who deny the Apostle Thomas said my Lord and my God in that encounter when Jesus appeared to Thomas. They do tell people you have to take what Thomas said in context with the rest of the Bible. It seems to me truther what you want people to do is believe that Jesus himself lied and he didn't. Thomas knew what Mary said to the Apostles after Jesus was resurrected and what was that, that Jesus said to Mary, "go to my disciples and tell them I go to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. So if you and others want to focus only on what Thomas said and discount or disbelieve what Jesus himself said, so be it. We who are JW will not disbelieve or discount or discredit what Jesus said.

When it comes to Bibles I see nothing wrong with whatever Version of the Bible a person uses. I do understand though that they are versions of the Bible and different versions have certain scriptures translated differently. The individual must decide for themselves which version they will use in their study of the scriptures. What other individuals think of the Bible you use should be insignificant to you if you truly believe there is nothing wrong with the version of the Bible you're using to study the scriptures. Not all people are going to agree with you so it's important what you believe you truly believe and you're not changing what Bible you use just because someone uses some scare tactic or some form of intimidation to get you to change what Bible you use. That's why I don't care what other people have to say about the NWT. I find nothing wrong with the NWT just because truther or some other person has something against the NWT. They have the right to use whatever version of the Bible they wish. Like I said however all versions are not alike so an individual must decide what version to use in life.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Does the KJV scare you???

That is all I use to "intimidate" folks.

They are intimidated by how well I know the KJV and that's it.

You seem to be intimidated by my KJV, not me.

Is Trumps "build the wall" motto slanderous to his detractors?

Random political deflections also aren’t only using the kjv.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There is something remarkable about Stephen’s countenance at this moment. The judges gaze at him and see that his face is “as an angel’s face.” Acts 6:15 Angels bear messages from Jehovah God and thus have reason to be fearless, serene, and peaceful. So it is with Stephen—even those hate-filled judges can see that. How can he be so calm?

Stephen didn't attack no one. He boldly defended the truth yes, he defended the truth in such a way that none of his accusers could hold their own against the wisdom the Holy Spirit had empowered the disciple Stephen with.

I can stand my own when it comes to my beliefs. I just don't judge or attack people when they disagree with me. I know God nor his Only Begotten Son wants me to judge or attack anyone.

Also those who you say get rough in theological or professional debates know they have already lost that debate, why else would they get so rough. You also need to understand that the Apostle Paul didn't attack anyone but instead spoke boldly about the truth about God his Only Begotten

Barney, I am not remotely a fan of jw beliefs, but I will 100% acknowledge you personally generally keeping information things respectful and actually focused on explaining your beliefs.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney, I am not remotely a fan of jw beliefs, but I will 100% acknowledge you personally generally keeping information things respectful and actually focused on explaining your beliefs.

We JW know others have their beliefs and we try our best to show respect for their beliefs without denying ours. When someone of a different faith explains a set of scriptures or a scripture we don't agree with we try our best to reasonably without arguing why we disagree.

 

[Truther]

There is something remarkable about Stephen’s countenance at this moment. The judges gaze at him and see that his face is “as an angel’s face.” Acts 6:15 Angels bear messages from Jehovah God and thus have reason to be fearless, serene, and peaceful. So it is with Stephen—even those hate-filled judges can see that. How can he be so calm?

Stephen didn't attack no one. He boldly defended the truth yes, he defended the truth in such a way that none of his accusers could hold their own against the wisdom the Holy Spirit had empowered the disciple Stephen with.

I can stand my own when it comes to my beliefs. I just don't judge or attack people when they disagree with me. I know God nor his Only Begotten Son wants me to judge or attack anyone.

Also those who you say get rough in theological or professional debates know they have already lost that debate, why else would they get so rough. You also need to understand that the Apostle Paul didn't attack anyone but instead spoke boldly about the truth about God and his Only Begotten Son.

Also I don't know any JW who deny the Apostle Thomas said my Lord and my God in that encounter when Jesus appeared to Thomas. They do tell people you have to take what Thomas said in context with the rest of the Bible. It seems to me truther what you want people to do is believe that Jesus himself lied and he didn't. Thomas knew what Mary said to the Apostles after Jesus was resurrected and what was that, that Jesus said to Mary, "go to my disciples and tell them I go to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. So if you and others want to focus only on what Thomas said and discount or disbelieve what Jesus himself said, so be it. We who are JW will not disbelieve or discount or discredit what Jesus said.

When it comes to Bibles I see nothing wrong with whatever Version of the Bible a person uses. I do understand though that they are versions of the Bible and different versions have certain scriptures translated differently. The individual must decide for themselves which version they will use in their study of the scriptures. What other individuals think of the Bible you use should be insignificant to you if you truly believe there is nothing wrong with the version of the Bible you're using to study the scriptures. Not all people are going to agree with you so it's important what you believe you truly believe and you're not changing what Bible you use just because someone uses some scare tactic or some form of intimidation to get you to change what Bible you use. That's why I don't care what other people have to say about the NWT. I find nothing wrong with the NWT just because truther or some other person has something against the NWT. They have the right to use whatever version of the Bible they wish. Like I said however all versions are not alike so an individual must decide what version to use in life.

This was not an attack from Stephen?....

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

 

[mjrhealth]

We JW know others have their beliefs and we try our best to show respect for their beliefs without denying ours. When someone of a different faith explains a set of scriptures or a scripture we don't agree with we try our best to reasonably without arguing why we disagree.

Believing is nice, when what you believe is wrong than its a problem, religion is a problem, because it must stray from the truth, that is why it has division because it isnt united in Christ, but each denomination,

[MKJV] Matthew 15:9
But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines thecommandments of men."

Which is what religion does,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Believing is nice, when what you believe is wrong than its a problem, religion is a problem, because it must stray from the truth, that is why it has division because it isnt united in Christ, but each denomination,

[MKJV] Matthew 15:9
But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines thecommandments of men."

Which is what religion does,

I agree Christianity is a way of life. The scriptures told us that people would fall away from the way of the truth and yes they would do this by teaching the commandments of men. This is why Christendom has so many denominations in it I believe. So the point is that because the way of the truth would be hidden because so many have fallen away from the truth, many people today believe that the way of the truth has doctrines such as the Trinity, the immortality of the Soul and hellfire doctrine. The so called church, which believes it to be the true church say that if you don't believe in these doctrines which they are convince are in the scriptures then they consider you to be a immitation Christian. I however believe that all those denominations that agree with those that say if you don't believe in the Trinity or immortality of the Soul or hellfire doctrine you're a false or immitation christian I believe those denominations are the false Christians or immigration Christians. Everyone must decide for themselves what they believe.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This was not an attack from Stephen?....

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

The disciple Stephen was full of Holy Spirit just as the Apostles were. Stephen face was like an Angels face and he was so humble. Did he speak boldly to the Jews telling them they were stubbornly speaking out against the truth, yes. Telling they were stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart was an attack he was telling those Jews ther were being stubborn and resisting the Holy Spirit which was trying to teach them the truth. Telling people they're being stubborn isn't attacking anyone. Plus truther you can claim you have the Hoy Spirit like the disciple Stephen did all you want but I'd never believe that. The way the Holy Spirit was used with those servants of God back the Holy Spirit was able to help these servants of God read the mind and hearts of people. You truther because they disagree with you call people antichrists as though you're infallible in what you believe. The way the Holy Spirit was used on God's servants back then isn't being used that way today. That because the Holy Spirit influence men to write down what the True God said was the truth. In his Bible that's all we need to learn the truth is God Holy Spirit and his word.

 

[mjrhealth]

I agree Christianity is a way of life. The scriptures told us that people would fall away from the way of the truth and yes they would do this by teaching the commandments of men. This is why Christendom has so many denominations in it I believe. So the point is that because the way of the truth would be hidden because so many have fallen away from the truth, many people today believe that the way of the truth has doctrines such as the Trinity, the immortality of the Soul and hellfire doctrine. The so called church, which believes it to be the true church say that if you don't believe in these doctrines which they are convince are in the scriptures then they consider you to be a immitation Christian. I however believe that all those denominations that agree with those that say if you don't believe in the Trinity or immortality of the Soul or hellfire doctrine you're a false or immitation christian I believe those denominations are the false Christians or immigration Christians. Everyone must decide for themselves what they believe.

And every denomination says their doctrine us right, but they all preach their own doctrines. That's why none are from God. Is Christ divided. Men have caused the division. Your religion is as wrong as all the others. Children of the harlot all of them.

 

[Truther]

The disciple Stephen was full of Holy Spirit just as the Apostles were. Stephen face was like an Angels face and he was so humble. Did he speak boldly to the Jews telling them they were stubbornly speaking out against the truth, yes. Telling they were stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart was an attack he was telling those Jews ther were being stubborn and resisting the Holy Spirit which was trying to teach them the truth. Telling people they're being stubborn isn't attacking anyone. Plus truther you can claim you have the Hoy Spirit like the disciple Stephen did all you want but I'd never believe that. The way the Holy Spirit was used with those servants of God back the Holy Spirit was able to help these servants of God read the mind and hearts of people. You truther because they disagree with you call people antichrists as though you're infallible in what you believe. The way the Holy Spirit was used on God's servants back then isn't being used that way today. That because the Holy Spirit influence men to write down what the True God said was the truth. In his Bible that's all we need to learn the truth is God Holy Spirit and his word.

If I called you this on this forum....


51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:


Would you be offended at me?

Or this?...


3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall...


???

 

[kcnalp]

I don't know what you're trying to say. I do know that this Scripture shows that the Jews were wrong in the way they looked at the scriptures because these Jews were stating that Jesus was breaking the sabbath. Which wasn't true. The Jews were in error in what they thought the scriptures were saying. The Jews were also wrong in saying that Jesus thought he was equal with God when he said God was his father

The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying. That's why they wanted to kill Him.

"making Himself equal with God."

 

[kcnalp]

Oh hush about attacking Bibles when almost everyone has been attacking the NWT since it was first produced. You think it's wrong for your Bibles to be attacked then stop being a hypocrite by stopping your attack on the NWT. Now I don't consider JW to be attacking your Bibles simply because they honestly believe that some scriptures are in error. That isn't attacking your Bible that's just disagreeing with how some of the scriptures are translated in said Bible. Now if you're saying disagreeing with how certain scriptures are translated in a Bible is attacking that Bible then you're attacking other people's Bible too. Now that's just hypocritical if you honestly believe disagreeing with how a certain Bible is translated is attacking that Bible because people disagree with how the NWT is translated. You show how unreasonable you are.

The thing about experts even when it comes to theologians and translaters of the scriptures is a lot of the times when you have certain versions of a Bible there are scriptures in different versions that are not translated exactly the same yet all these translaters are considered to be experts. I decide what version of the Bible I'm going to use to read and study. I don't allow people to dictate to me which Bible I use. You can disagree all you want. I understand you have the right to use whatever version of the Bible you wish.

So the JW's have convinced you that you know more about Bible translations than all those who translated our Christian Bibles. Red flag!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying. That's why they wanted to kill Him.

"making Himself equal with God."

So like the jews, you believe Jesus sinned. You see breaking the Sabbath is a sin. So I know Jesus didn't sin so he didn't break the Sabbath like the Jews said he did and just as they were wrong about Jesus breaking the Sabbath they were wrong for believing Jesus was making himself equal with God.