Who will occupy the land of Israel in Paradise earth?
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face2face
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face2face
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You still showing you lack of understanding concerning the mystery of natural Israel.
If God is willing you will.
F2F
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
John tells us in Revelation 21:1 'Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
I would say the promised land will be the whole earth and that the land masses divided by water we know of today will not be so.
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the Earth.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Jumbled out of order.
The Promised “Land”, is specific portions of Land, to be Christ Jesus’ Kingdom on Earth for a specific 1,000 years BEFORE the “HEAVEN and WORLD” is Made anew.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Resurrected I srael will live in the promised land during the millenial kingdom as god covenanted by His name to the people of Israel. The church will be in heaven and Israel will be the under rulers under Jesus and the gentile believers will come yearly to offer sacrifice to Jerusalem during tabernacles.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
it actually doesn't teach that at all.
it declares very clearly, and repeatedly, that all of the Land Promises were fully completed.
and it declares that New Jerusalem will be the Holy Heavenly city.
not the physical state of Israel.
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
Joshua 21:43-45
14 ... ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.
15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; ...
Joshua 23:14-15
7 Thou art the Lord the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:
Nehemiah 9:7-8
Absolutely. The land promised to Abraham was but a foreshadowing of the true, greater Promised Land.
Ah, the symbolism in John's Revelation goes far. I would disagree with this, and submit that the "sea" was where John "saw the beast rising up out of" (Revelation 13:1), so, symbolically, it was the dwelling place of evil. I look forward to swimming in the seas/oceans in the new heaven and new earth... there will no longer be any evil dwelling there (or anywhere else).
In Revelation 21, God does not say, "Behold, I am making all new things," but rather, "Behold, I am making all things new." Absolutely.
Grace and peace to all.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
yes, I concede this!Ah, the symbolism in John's Revelation goes far. I would disagree with this, and submit that the "sea" was where John "saw the beast rising up out of" (Revelation 13:1), so, symbolically, it was the dwelling place of evil. I look forward to swimming in the seas/oceans in the new heaven and new earth... there will no longer be any evil dwelling there (or anywhere else).
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 65:20 has been offered without context, so we should explore what this verse means in the big picture, concerning Israel...
“No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days,
Nor an old man who fails to live out his days.
For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy,
And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age.”
Isaiah 65 is a prophesy....a glimpse into the "new world" to come.
So how is this verse understood in context with the rest of the chapter?
The first part of this prophesy is an indictment against the defection of natural Israel....those who offended their God too many times, and he declared that their punishment would not be withheld forever.
True to his part of the covenant that he made with Abraham, Jehovah kept these unfaithful, covenant breaking defectors in existence until his promise was fulfilled in one of Abraham's descendants. After that "seed" came, he fulfilled his assignment by giving his life, not just for Israel but for "all nations" to "bless themselves" by means of him. (Gen 22:17) So it wasn't just about "Israel"....they were just his instrument through whom he would produce the Messiah...and teach us all by means of his holy word what he requires of his worshippers.
Jesus had to come in the flesh, so God chose Abraham's offspring to bring about the fulfillment of that promise. But Israel proved to be the classic example of what NOT to be, in a relationship with their God.....they were in fact the anti-type of what a faithful nation should be, teaching us valuable lessons in obedience, and reinforcing the defection in Eden by showing his worshippers what NOT to do.....by seeing the results of their disobedient behavior and experiencing God's anger as a result.
Bad examples sometimes teach us better lessons than the good ones.
Verses 12-15 state...
“So I will destine you for the sword,
And all of you will bow down to be slaughtered,
Because I called, but you did not answer,
I spoke, but you did not listen;
You kept doing what was bad in my eyes,
And you chose what displeased me.”
13 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“Look! My servants will eat, but you will go hungry.
Look! My servants will drink, but you will go thirsty.
Look! My servants will rejoice, but you will suffer shame.
14 Look! My servants will shout joyfully because of the good condition of the heart,
But you will cry out because of the pain of heart
And you will wail because of a broken spirit.
15 You will leave behind a name that my chosen ones will use as a curse,
And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will put each of you to death,
But his own servants he will call by another name”.
Jehovah did not leave unfaithful Israel in any doubt as to his intentions to punish them for their unashamed betrayal of all that he had taught them.....but we also see that God’s true servants would not be part of that unfaithful nation.....”his own servants he will call by another name”.
Then verse 17 says.....”For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be called to mind,
Nor will they come up into the heart.”
So the creation of this “new heavens and a new earth” (mentioned three times in the scriptures) was held out as the future for the faithful among mankind....to people of all nations, including Israel if they saw the bigger picture and accepted and followed the teachings of their Messiah.
Through Isaiah God goes on to say....
“So exult and be joyful forever in what I am creating.
For look! I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joy
And her people a cause for exultation.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem and exult in my people;
No more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or a cry of distress.”
20 “No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days,
Nor an old man who fails to live out his days.
For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy,
And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age.”
What is the "Jerusalem" mentioned here? A "new earth" is not a "new Jerusalem". These are two different locations. The new Jerusalem is actually "heavenly Jerusalem".
At Hebrews 12:22 we see Jerusalem is identified as a heavenly place...with myriads of angels.
"But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels."
In Revelation 21:2, this "new Jerusalem", is made up of the Christ and his elect, and is seen bringing the rulership of God's Kingdom to earthly subjects.
This results are something to look forward to....
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
What kind of "death will be no more"? The kind that Adam inflicted on his children through no fault on their part. But does that mean that humans can never die? Does everlasting life mean immortality? The answer is NO! Immortality is granted only to the elect, the majority of whom are now in heaven in spirit form. But humans were never designed to be 'immortal'....they had the opportunity to 'live forever' but it was conditional. Adam was told that obedience to his Creator would mean a long and happy life....disobedience, OTOH would incur death. So humans were always mortal, but it only meant that they could die....not that they would, or that there was any natural cause of death.
The verse in Isa 65:20 therefore is speaking about those who might choose disobedience at some point in their everlasting life whereby they would incur the death penalty. This would be the result of their own disobedience, rather than the kind Adam inflicted on his children.
“No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days,
Nor an old man who fails to live out his days.
For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy,
And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age.”
Isaiah 65 is a prophesy....a glimpse into the "new world" to come.
So how is this verse understood in context with the rest of the chapter?
The first part of this prophesy is an indictment against the defection of natural Israel....those who offended their God too many times, and he declared that their punishment would not be withheld forever.
True to his part of the covenant that he made with Abraham, Jehovah kept these unfaithful, covenant breaking defectors in existence until his promise was fulfilled in one of Abraham's descendants. After that "seed" came, he fulfilled his assignment by giving his life, not just for Israel but for "all nations" to "bless themselves" by means of him. (Gen 22:17) So it wasn't just about "Israel"....they were just his instrument through whom he would produce the Messiah...and teach us all by means of his holy word what he requires of his worshippers.
Jesus had to come in the flesh, so God chose Abraham's offspring to bring about the fulfillment of that promise. But Israel proved to be the classic example of what NOT to be, in a relationship with their God.....they were in fact the anti-type of what a faithful nation should be, teaching us valuable lessons in obedience, and reinforcing the defection in Eden by showing his worshippers what NOT to do.....by seeing the results of their disobedient behavior and experiencing God's anger as a result.
Bad examples sometimes teach us better lessons than the good ones.
Verses 12-15 state...
“So I will destine you for the sword,
And all of you will bow down to be slaughtered,
Because I called, but you did not answer,
I spoke, but you did not listen;
You kept doing what was bad in my eyes,
And you chose what displeased me.”
13 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“Look! My servants will eat, but you will go hungry.
Look! My servants will drink, but you will go thirsty.
Look! My servants will rejoice, but you will suffer shame.
14 Look! My servants will shout joyfully because of the good condition of the heart,
But you will cry out because of the pain of heart
And you will wail because of a broken spirit.
15 You will leave behind a name that my chosen ones will use as a curse,
And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will put each of you to death,
But his own servants he will call by another name”.
Jehovah did not leave unfaithful Israel in any doubt as to his intentions to punish them for their unashamed betrayal of all that he had taught them.....but we also see that God’s true servants would not be part of that unfaithful nation.....”his own servants he will call by another name”.
Then verse 17 says.....”For look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be called to mind,
Nor will they come up into the heart.”
So the creation of this “new heavens and a new earth” (mentioned three times in the scriptures) was held out as the future for the faithful among mankind....to people of all nations, including Israel if they saw the bigger picture and accepted and followed the teachings of their Messiah.
Through Isaiah God goes on to say....
“So exult and be joyful forever in what I am creating.
For look! I am creating Jerusalem a cause for joy
And her people a cause for exultation.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem and exult in my people;
No more will there be heard in her the sound of weeping or a cry of distress.”
20 “No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days,
Nor an old man who fails to live out his days.
For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy,
And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age.”
What is the "Jerusalem" mentioned here? A "new earth" is not a "new Jerusalem". These are two different locations. The new Jerusalem is actually "heavenly Jerusalem".
At Hebrews 12:22 we see Jerusalem is identified as a heavenly place...with myriads of angels.
"But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels."
In Revelation 21:2, this "new Jerusalem", is made up of the Christ and his elect, and is seen bringing the rulership of God's Kingdom to earthly subjects.
This results are something to look forward to....
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
What kind of "death will be no more"? The kind that Adam inflicted on his children through no fault on their part. But does that mean that humans can never die? Does everlasting life mean immortality? The answer is NO! Immortality is granted only to the elect, the majority of whom are now in heaven in spirit form. But humans were never designed to be 'immortal'....they had the opportunity to 'live forever' but it was conditional. Adam was told that obedience to his Creator would mean a long and happy life....disobedience, OTOH would incur death. So humans were always mortal, but it only meant that they could die....not that they would, or that there was any natural cause of death.
The verse in Isa 65:20 therefore is speaking about those who might choose disobedience at some point in their everlasting life whereby they would incur the death penalty. This would be the result of their own disobedience, rather than the kind Adam inflicted on his children.
It can't be complete when we consider that what YHWH told Abraham in Gen. 13:14-16
14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land which you see I give to you and your [c]descendants forever. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered.
Moses had to remind YHWH about this promise when YHWH want to destroy the nation (Exodus 32:13, 1413 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’ ” 14 So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Or when we consider the promise he made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” Gen 12:3
In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” Gen 22:18; 26:4, 24;
When has this happened? YHWH says Israel will be a blesser nation, that hasn't happened yet, He says they will possess the land FOREVER!!!!!
That hasn't happened yet.
The Apostle Paul says YHWH has not forsaken His people. - Romans 11
This is symbolical language. The heavens are used symbolically as representing the ecclesiastical or spiritual powers. For instance, the heavens of the present time in this symbolic language of the Bible are the religious systems of the present time, while the heavens of the future age will be the church in glory. The earth at the present time is the present social order of things, society as at present organized on the basis of selfishness; and the mountains represent the kingdoms of this world, and the rivers represent the truth, and the seas represent the masses of mankind who are unstable, restless. And the Lord pictures a change in this respect, that all of these things are to made over new--a new order of society under the domination of Messiah, and there will be no more sea in the sense that there will be no more people who are in that restless, dissatisfied condition. To him every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess. This present order of things will pass away and give way to the new order of things. This word "World" is translated from three different Greek words, and our comprehension of this word has been correspondingly rather confused.
According to the Bible there have already been two worlds, and the third one is coming, and this earth has been the scene of all these. As, for instance, the Apostle speaks of the world that was before the flood, of the present evil world, because sin is now reigning, and of the world to come wherein dwelleth righteousness. This does not signify three earths, but three different orders or conditions of things in the earth. The condition of things which preceded the flood was different from the present order of things. That condition of things before the flood, was under the ministration of angels; during the present time, from the flood down to the coming of Christ, at his second advent, the world is left in the hands of mankind, and Satan, the prince of this world, taking advantage of men, taking advantage of their ignorance and superstitious fears, has become prince of this world without any divine authority, because he works in the hearts of the children of disobedience, and the children of disobedience are much more numerous than the children of obedience; therefore it is the present evil world. The new dispensation, or new order of things that God will introduce at the second coming of Christ, is spoken of as the new heaven and the new earth, in this same symbolical way. But it will be the same physical earth, the same rocks, the same matter will be here, the sky we now have will be here just the same as before the flood. One world has passed, and another world or dispensation has come, and a new world or dispensation is about to be ushered in. The new one will be different from either of the others, because Christ will be the prince of that world, the prince of peace, and the government of that dispensation will be altogether righteous. He who sits on the throne says, "I will make all things new." They will all be made new.
“No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
This simply means that mankind will have upwards of 100 years to make the adequate changes in their characters to conform to Kingdom rule. If after living in the Kingdom rule for 100 years, having made no changes, during the time that Satan and his minions have been imprisoned, that they continue to live a sinful life , they will be put to death,
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
If symbolism is intended (which I have no problems with) then all our interpretations re the promises to Abraham need to be revisited.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
When does "all" not mean "all"? When does "all the families" mean all the people?
When does "all the nations" mean all the people in them?
Then we have to understand what "Israel" is spoken about here....it should have been fleshly Israel, but as a nation born dedicated to YHWH, they failed to honor their covenant with him....so God kept them in existence until his promise to Abraham was fulfilled and when they executed his son as a blasphemer, God chose a new nation to call "Israel"....a nation that would be proud to bear his name, not ones who lost it due to superstition, not because they were never commanded not to utter it.
What did God tell Moses about his name?
Exodus 3:13-15....from the Jewish Tanakh.....
| "And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" | יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם: | |
| 14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" | ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם: | |
| 15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation." | טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר: |
The "Lord God" is "יְהֹוָ֞ה".
Matt 21:42-45...
"Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. 44 Also, the person falling on this stone will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his illustrations, they knew that he was speaking about them."
Seems plain enough....the stone that the builders rejected was Jesus and because of this rejection, the Kingdom was taken away from the Jews and given to a new nation...."the Israel of God". (Gal 6:16)
Peter identified this new nation...."Symʹe·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name."
This "people" were made up of the Jewish and Gentile followers of Jesus the Messiah. (Gal 6:16) God did not change his covenant with Israel....he just changed what it meant to be "Israel"....not fleshly Israel but spiritual Israel.
Romans 9:6-8...
"However, it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s offspring; rather, “What will be called your offspring will be through Isaac.” 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the offspring."
Again, plain enough.....fleshly Israel failed, but God did not.....Israel remains, but it isn't those who dwell in a land overrun by war, corrupt politics and violence. Once again, natural Israel has allied herself with nations whose worship she despises....just like her forefathers. The leopard did not change its spots.....so God chose another nation to substitute for her....one who would produce the right fruitage, which Israel never did.
The devil has people looking at natural Israel in a former "holy land" when it is no longer God's nation, and the land is not remotely "holy" anymore. Only those from that nation who accept Christ will be saved. The real Promised Land is the paradise earth which we are awaiting.
That's right, but who are God's people...? The scriptures tell us, but it seems that you are stuck with old knowledge, not realizing what God's word really says about who that real nation of Israel truly is.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Since Jesus is the firstborn from the dead into immortality, having the ability to be both physically human and Spirit at will, what "promise land" did He inherit, in which God the Father dwells?
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