Rich R
Well-Known Member
All good stuff, but any comment on 1 Cor 8:6 which clearly says only the Father is God? Have you seen anything anywhere, inside of or outside of the scriptures, that calls Jesus the Father? I think that verse lays out pretty definitively as to who the one God is.There was never a Christless relationship with God for the Jews before Christ was born as a babe. If scripture be true that no man has seen God then neither did Adam and Eve in Eden. The Lord God in the garden must have been Christ. God dwells in an unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
11 But you, O man of God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only [e]Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
I know there are some verses that may be taken in a way that suggests Jesus is God. But I'm sure you will agree that the scriptures do not contradict themselves. So how can we make 1 Cor 8:6 which clearly eliminates Jesus as a candidate for God with the verses that are usually shown to say Jesus is God. They must all agree as to who Jesus is.
For example, I think John 1:1 might be considered as the mainstay for Jesus being God. Well if we take that to say Jesus really is God then we must make 1 Cor 8:6 agree. Somehow we must make that verse say that it is not just the Father that is God, but the son also is God. I'm stumped as to how we might do that. It's a pretty simple declaration, that would be hard to take it as saying the son is God. Maybe you see something there I don't see.
The other option would be to say John 1:1 does not in fact say Jesus is God, thus making it in complete agreement with John 1:1. Well that actually wouldn't be that hard. All we would need to do is read it exactly as it is written, avoiding making any substitution of one word for another. In other words, we must not read it as, "In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God." That is not what the text says. It says, "In the beginning was the word (logos), an d the word (logos) was with God, and the word (logos) was God." There is not a text in existence that doesn't say it that way.
It is purely speculative to say that the logos is Jesus. The logos is the logos. It has a rather rich history, but few take the time to understand exactly what it is. There is a ton of available information on it, so there is really no excuse to not see how the people of that time and place understood it to mean.
Interestingly enough, John actually states the express purpose for writing his Gospel.
John 20:30-31,
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
If we just let John say what it says in 1:1 and believe John's purpose for writing the things he wrote, it will not contradict 1 Corinthians 8:6, thus preserving the integrity of God's wonderful matchless word. I can't for the life of me figure out why that is considered blasphemy by the orthodox church. Not only is there no real support in the scriptures for Jesus being God, but there is no need whatsoever for making him God. The story reads just fine, way better actually, if we let Jesus be the son of God. For many reasons, it brings the message into much more clarity.
The scriptures are at heart about one man who screwed everything up and another man who made it all better. It's really much more exciting than God simply coming down and doing everything Himself. From the very beginning in Eden and throughout the entire book, God worked with human agents to accomplish His work. How wonderful a God is that places so much trust in His created human beings. No other Ancient Near East god came even close to Yahweh in that regard. They all just used and abused humans. Our God is not like that though. He worked with humans for some 4,000 years before He could get a man by his free will to finally say, "Not my will, but thine be done." As great as that statement actually is, and as great as the man who spoke those words is, it would become utterly meaningless if Jesus were God. I mean, how many wills does God have? One, two, more? I vote for one. While in Gethseme that night, Jesus had a will that was actually diametrically opposed to God. Who wouldn't want to avoid such a horrible death Jesus was soon to face? But, though tempted just like the rest of us, he subjugated his will to that of his Father's. Absolutely mind boggling in my book!
1 Tim 2:5,
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The man Jesus is the mediator. The one God is the God. What could be more clear than that?