Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?

[NayborBear]

Did Jesus succeed, or fail, at his mission to be "the Saviour of the world."

God sent Him!
He definitely succeeded!
To whomsoever will believe.
Does everyone believe?

 

[St. SteVen]

Does everyone believe?

They will.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and
on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly,
and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.
No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.
Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead
and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

/

 

[NayborBear]

They will.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and
on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly,
and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.
No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.
Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead
and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

/

AMEN!
Dunno if all will believe. But ALL will (at the very least) acknowledge!

 

[St. SteVen]

AMEN!
Dunno if all will believe. But ALL will (at the very least) acknowledge!

Agree. The Strong's definition really helps. The confession is NOT forced.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

/

 

[Augustin56]

Could it be that they leaned on their own understanding of Scripture rather than God's?

 

[St. SteVen]

Could it be that they leaned on their own understanding of Scripture rather than God's?

No. They rejected the church's understanding.

/

 

[Augustin56]

No. They rejected the church's understanding.

/

I think that's correct. The Church's understanding is God's understanding. They rejected that in favor of their own judgement.

 

[Ghada]

No because it is not biblical.
The repeated injunction not to sin found through the epistles tells us that the new Christians in the early church struggled with temptation and with sin.
Why does Paul tell us that there is a way of escapi g temptation?
Why does he talk about his current problem of doing what he doesn't want to do?

I'm speaking of the pure conversion of Christ after repenting, with all things now of God.

You only talking about the necessary fight to remain that way afterward.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to be keeping himself unspotted from the world.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.

You don't believe in keeping your heart and life unspotted, because you don't believe in ever being pure born of God in the first place, because you've just never repented of all your sinning at once in the first place.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

In the Bible, faith toward God only comes with repenting. That's why unbelief in God's words are from not repenting.

 

[Ghada]

Why is it impossible?

I've believe I've given the verse. (1 Peter 1:21)

Paul was a normal human being with all the faults weaknesses and strength we all have.

You're preach your own religion and gospel. It's not the gospel and life Paul preaches.

The passage reads as a current ongoing problem that Paul the human being had.

The problem of Romans 7 is double hearted sinning against God and the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Your ongoing problem is preaching and justifying it for life.

 

[Ghada]

He wrote to encourage other people going through difficult ctemptations.

So did Peter. They did not write to Christians sinning by temptation, to encourage them that they are still saved and justified, while sinning against Christ.

That's what you do. You may even tell yourself it helps Christians to repent, but it only serves to be encouraged with more sinning.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

He was not same sort of super saint, immune to the troubles of life.

No man is immune to the troubles and tribulations of life. But only the newborn sons of God are enduring them like Jesus, yet without sin.

What you call a 'super saint' is simple any repented saint in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin nor sinner.

No doubt you don't mind idolizing Jesus as a super saint, so long as you don't have to live like Him.

And any saint that is walking as He walked, you mock as some sort of super saint, because of living like Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Church's understanding is God's understanding.

That's a bold claim.
Is God subordinate to the Church? (capital C)

/

 

[Augustin56]

No, nor is that implied. The Church is, as St. Paul said, the Body of Christ. Christ identifies as one with His Church, and has promised that it will never teach doctrinal error.

Recall when St. Paul was going around (before his conversion), persecuting Christians, and Jesus knocked him off his horse. He asked Paul (by his Hebrew name, Saul), "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" Note that Jesus didn't say, "...why are you persecuting My Church?" which he was doing, but "...why are you persecuting Me?" Persecute Christ's Church and you persecute Christ!

 

[St. SteVen]

Christ... has promised that it will never teach doctrinal error.

I don't recall that.
And it seems that the Church (capital C), and the church (the WHOLE body of Christ), certainly have taught doctrinal error at times.
Currently in process, I would say.

/

 

[keithr]

Jesus makes the natural seed mortal and corruptible naturally, which has nothing to do with sin.

And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Neither mortality nor deformity of flesh is from sin, nor does it make Christ sinful.

Barnes Bible Notes says:

Master, who did sin? ... - It was a universal opinion among the Jews that calamities of all kinds were the effects of sin. See the notes at Luk_13:1-4. The case, however, of this man was that of one that was blind from his birth, and it was a question which the disciples could not determine whether it was his fault or that of his parents. Many of the Jews, as it appears from their writings (see Lightfoot), believed in the doctrine of the transmigration of souls; or that the soul of a man, in consequence of sin, might be compelled to pass into other bodies, and be punished there. They also believed that an infant might sin before it was born (see Lightfoot), and that consequently this blindness might have come upon the child as a consequence of that. It was also a doctrine with many that the crime of the parent might be the cause of deformity in the child, particularly the violation of the command in Lev_20:18.​

​

Exodus 20:5 (MKJV) says:

(5) You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me,​

So the man's blindness at birth could have been the result of his father's sin. In the case of John 9:2-3 that you quoted (but did not give the reference for), Jesus is saying that the man's blindness was not the result of his parent's or his own sin. It does not suggest or prove that the man was not born with a sinful nature.

According to your reasoning, Jesus created the man with an imperfect body. Causing someone to suffer a life of blindness is a sin, so that would mean Jesus sinned. Then again, if Jesus/God only create the soul/spirit of a person, and the body is simply procreated from imperfect parents, then why can't you believe that the imperfect body will result in the person having a sinful nature? Our thoughts are affected by our bodies (as shown by people with mental illnesses, or dementia, etc.).

Your doctrine of making sinning natural, by being born with it naturally, is just an excuse for sinning against God.

No it's not. It is an explanation of why everyone has sinned. As Paul wrote, Romans 3:10-12 (ESV):

(10) as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;​

(11) no one understands; no one seeks for God.​

(12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”​

He wrote (verse 1) that all "are under sin", i.e. Adam fell from his original state of righteousness, and we have all inherited that fallen state.

Already offered Bible correction to this stuff. You ignore them.

The only verse you have quoted, as far as I can see, is Ezekiel 18:20 (WEB):

(20) The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.​

That says nothing to determine whether or not people are born with a sinful nature. Similarly, verse 4 says:

(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine. The soul who sins, he shall die.​

Here God is saying that he is the Father of all people. This verse, and the whole chapter, is based on Ezekiel 18:2-3 (WEB):

(2) “What do you mean, that you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?​

(3) “As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “you shall not use this proverb any more in Israel.​

It is saying nothing about whether or not all people are born with a sinless or a sinful nature, it is God saying that in the Millennial Age everyone will be judged by their own actions to determine whether or not they will die (eternal death) or will have eternal life. It's connected with Jeremiah 31:27-34 (WEB):

(27) “Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of animal.​

(28) It will happen that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” says Yahweh.​

(29) “In those days they will say no more, “‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’​

(30) But everyone will die for his own iniquity. Every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge.​

(31) “Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

(32) not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of mine they broke, although I was a husband to them,” says Yahweh.​

(33) “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says Yahweh: I will put my law in their inward parts, and I will write it in their heart. I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

(34) They will no longer each teach his neighbor, and every man teach his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh;’ for they will all know me, from their least to their greatest,” says Yahweh: “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”​

 

[keithr]

In any case, I read God prepared a body for His Son. Nothing about this 'perfect' body of yours, which obviously you mean to be different than that of other men.

Obviously. Jesus did not have a human father. Nobody else has been born by a virgin mother.

You preach a christ coming with another kind of 'perfect' body than man. That's not Jesus Christ come in the flesh and blood of man.

He had a human mother, so his body was created from human DNA, from one of Mary's eggs. God only supplied the Y chromosone so that he was born male, not female (see Unique blood of Jesus).

And your christ is even different for another christ, that comes with a different immortal flesh, than that of man.

I don't understand that sentence.

Your christ's body is 'perfect' but mortal. Their christ's body is perfect and immortal.

Well Jesus said, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore" (Revelation 1:18, KJV). If he was dead, then he had died, so he was not immortal. He is now immortal ("I am alive for evermore"), as true Christians will eventually be (1 John 3:2, Philippians 3:21).

If I weren't believing and loving Jesus Christ, who had the same flesh and blood as me, then I'd go with the the perfect immortal body of their christ, not yours.

"Go with" what the Bible says! Jesus was mortal; he died giving his soul as a sacrifice; God raised him to life, giving him the immortal divine nature; God has promised the same for Christians, who will become adopted sons of God (John 1:12).

We'll just leave out your ignorance about the nature of angels' bodies being made immortal spirit by God.

You have not given any Bible quotes to support your idea that angels are immortal. I quoted 1 Timothy 6:16 to show that they are not (as indeed Jesus was not - see above).

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

That says nothing about the mortality of angels.

And you're not believing the Bible where angels have and still do come temporarily with immortal flesh at the will of God.

Angels can take on a flesh human body in order to communicate with humans. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that they appear with immortal human bodies. You have shared no evidence for that claim.

Mortal souls are the same as no souls.

Utter nonsense! What did you quote earlier? Wasn't it (post #585) Ezekiel 18:20 - "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Your own definition for your own beliefs apart from the Bible. Immortality in the Bible is conscious knowledge and self-awareness forever.

I gave a dictionary definition of the word immortal. Your statement is not the Bible meaning of immortality. It sounds like you believe Satan's original lie that we won't really die. I believe God.

The immortal existence of angels and men is either in the light with Christ, or in darkness without God's Spirit of life.

As usual you give no supporting Scriptures for men and angels being immortal. Nobody is currently immortal except God (YHVH) and Jesus. Resurrected Christians will be changed (they will no longer be human) and become immortal (a future event). The remaining humans and angels have not, nor will not have, the opportunity of becoming immortal.

The angels that sinned, and the men that sin unto the grave, will be immortality in darkness without God forever.

These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

That's Jude 1:12-13 (why can't you give the reference and save us time and effort?). Those verses are not talking about the angels that it referred to in verse 6, it is talking about men, going back to verse 4:

(3) Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.​

(4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Verses 12 and 13 are saying that such men are disappointing, useless and worthless, like "clouds without water" being blown about, like trees that don't bear fruit, that have seen to be dead twice, two seasons in a row, with no hope of revival or being valuable, which have no worth so they are plucked up and discarded, etc., and similarly they are like stars that wonder through the darkness of space forever - they have no value or benefit. It is not saying that people (or angels) will live forever alone in darkness!

Where does the Bible say Jesus the man was perfect?

1 John 3:5 (WEB):

(5) You know that he was revealed to take away our sins, and in him is no sin.​

Jesus said of himself, John 7:18 (WEB):

(18) He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.​

Only God in heaven is perfect, where He cannot even be tempted to sin. All men on earth are tempted to sin, including Jesus. But only Jesus was without sinning, and only those in Christ Jesus are not sinning like Him.

Once again. You're use of 'perfect human being' is meaningless and something of your own making.

You intermix a little Bible into your abundance of personal stuff.

In the type the sacrificial lamb had to be perfect and without blemish. Leviticus 22:20-21 (ESV):

(20) But whatever has a defect, that you shall not offer; for it shall not be acceptable for you.​

(21) And when anyone offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering from the herd or from the flock, to be accepted it must be perfect; there shall be no blemish in it.​

Peter wrote, 1 Peter 1:18-19 (WEB):

(18) knowing that you were redeemed, not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, from the useless way of life handed down from your fathers,​

(19) but with precious blood, as of a lamb without blemish or spot, the blood of Christ;​

John 1:29 (WEB):

(29) The next day, he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!​

God does not provide a sacrifice that is blemished - that would not be acceptable.

 

[keithr]

All flesh is mortal. All souls made in the image of God are immortal as God. Especially God the Word.

Wrong, as you have already shown - "The soul that sins, it shall die.", Ezekiel 18:20 (MKJV).

Oh wait. You're saying souls are mortal, and angels are mortal, and now Jesus Christ was mortal.

Yes.

You're teaching a created christ angel come in a 'perfect' body different from men! Now, it makes sense. It's the pagan pantheon of mythical heroes, where certain men came in supernatural bodies born of the gods, and then were deified with the gods for their heroic god-born deeds!

No, Jesus did not come in a supernatural body, he came in a human body - Hebrews 2:14 (WEB):

(14) Since then the children have shared in flesh and blood, he also himself in the same way partook of the same, that through death he might bring to nothing him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,​

The opportunity to gain immortality in darkness forever, has been around since God commanded Adam not to disobey Him.

No it hasn't. God told Adam that if he disobeyed God's command that Adam would die. God never said that if Adam sinned that Adam would live forever in darkness, nor that Adam would become immortal.

You teach men are like all beasts with mortal bodies only, without souls. (Or with 'mortal' souls, which is a pseudo distinction without a difference.) Theologians saying the souls of men are 'mortal', is like natural men saying the mortal bodies of men are souls.

Genesis 2:7 (WEB):

(7) Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

1 Corinthians 15:45 (WEB):

(45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.​

Genesis 1:24 (Darby):

(24) And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so.​

Just as the animals are not immortal, so are humans not immortal - Eccliastes 3:18-19 (WEB):

(18) I said in my heart, “As for the sons of men, God tests them, so that they may see that they themselves are like animals.​

(19) For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.​

 

[keithr]

And so once again back to original languages hijinks. A lying translation for a false doctrine.

As I wrote, the KJV says in its footnote for Genesis 2:17 that in the Hebrew it states "dying thou shalt die", just as the YLT translates it as "dying thou dost die". This is not hijinks, it is study of God's word. It is not a lying translation.

The lie of course is partly 'Dying'. The exact same word and tense is used each time, which is the definitive, not participle. You change the word in one of them to change the translation to change the commandment warning of God.

I have not changed anything. I'm just reporting the facts to you.

Other possible translations are "Thou shalt die, surely be dead." Thou shalt be dead, surely dead."

I don't know of any translation that translates it like that.

That's what your corrupt trasnlation certainly means. And the reason is obvious.

Why are you calling the KJV and the YLT corrupt translations? The TLV (translated by Jews, who understand the Hebrew language) translates it as:

(17) But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. For when you eat from it, you most assuredly will die!”​

If you can't see God seeking an honest confession from both them, before condemning them, then quoting anything won't help. He didn't give the serpent that chance.

What has God asking them what they had done got to do with God providing "a way of escape from sinning in the garden"? Adam and Eve gave truthful answers as to what happened. God did not ask if they were sorry for what thay had done; He immediately announced their punishment. Show me where in the Bible you claim it says that "God made a way of escape from sinning in the garden. It's called repentance unto confession with godly sorrow. He gave that way to Adam, and even to Cain, and has been commanding men to repent ever since". And where does it say that God calls men to repent? Where are the Bible references for that? John the Baptist called people to repent, but where in the Old Testament does it say that God calls people to repent? I can't find any such calls from God.

You have no interest in what the Bible really says, as proven by your willingness to even corrupt translation to teach something else.

I have not corrupted any translations. I have just shown you the evidence. You seem to want to dismiss it rather than properly investigate what the Scriptures really says.

We both know we are at the point of no agreement. For me, it is only another exercise of disciplined Bible correction with any new stuff you bring in.

So far, it's been interesting and fun. I learned long ago, that some of the best perfecting of knowledge in the Bible, is from needing to accurately correct the errors. By seeing so many ways of how not to teach the Bible, I learn better how to stick exactly to the Bible and teach only that.

It appears to me that you're not sticking exactly to what the Bible teaches!

 

[NayborBear]

That's a bold claim.
Is God subordinate to the Church? (capital C)

/

That's a little "lighter" then what I was thinking.......
When Jesus said that (paraphrasing from memory here)
"many will say" (churches...er better yet? denominations)
"LO!" "Here He is!" Or "There He is!"
But He is not there!
Ya see? Today's "churches" have fallen into the same "disfavor" with God as Israel had before the birth of Christ.
Those traditions of men and precepts of men which make void the Word of God!
Admittedly however, some denominations do better then others, depending on the location of "a" church in a given financial/social "strata" of a community.

How many churches have you gone to dressed in rags, and upon entering, are given the "what in the world are YOU doing here?" Look, or perhaps even been spoken to like "We don't appreciate the likes of your kind in attendance here!"

......asking for a friend!

 

[St. SteVen]

Ya see? Today's "churches" have fallen into the same "disfavor" with God as Israel had before the birth of Christ.
Those traditions of men and precepts of men which make void the Word of God!

I think God is much more tolerant of diversity in faith than that.
My experience with God would have been much different if I had been raised in a Catholic home.
I was raised Protestant evangelical. God found me in that situation and worked with it.
Had I been raised Catholic, God would have worked with that.
Makes me wonder how God works when one is raised under another one of the world religions.

And there are testimonies of people leaving Catholicism to be Protestant,
and people leaving Protestantism to be Catholic.

We have this perverted idea that God only works through the "true" church.
Which we define as OUR church. How convenient.

Admittedly however, some denominations do better then others, depending on the location of "a" church in a given financial/social "strata" of a community.

Do better how?

How many churches have you gone to dressed in rags, and upon entering, are given the "what in the world are YOU doing here?" Look, or perhaps even been spoken to like "We don't appreciate the likes of your kind in attendance here!"

Thankfully, I have never had that experience.
And I wonder if the reaction is somewhat magnified by the person in rags.
What they perceived as negative attention may have been surprise?

......asking for a friend!

Was there a question that I missed?

/

 

[NayborBear]

I think God is much more tolerant of diversity in faith than that.
My experience with God would have been much different if I had been raised in a Catholic home.
I was raised Protestant evangelical. God found me in that situation and worked with it.
Had I been raised Catholic, God would have worked with that.
Makes me wonder how God works when one is raised under another one of the world religions.

And there are testimonies of people leaving Catholicism to be Protestant,
and people leaving Protestantism to be Catholic.

We have this perverted idea that God only works through the "true" church.
Which we define as OUR church. How convenient.

It seems as you are under an auspices that God doesn't know what He's doing when He picked you (or us all for that matter) to be born through your parents into whichever (for lack of a better use of terminology here) scenario we found ourselves in, whether male or female, before our coming of age so to speak, WHEN at that time?
He, who's ways are not "man's ways,"
And who's very thoughts are higher then "man's" thoughts.
Unseen, yet every bit as real and spiritual as, the "prince of the air/this world"(age) strives in persuading those "empirical" parts of us to be more of the world, than in the world! To the point where these events become "just so much foolishness or folly!

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV)
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Admittedly however, some denominations do better then others, depending on the location of "a" church in a given financial/social "strata" of a community.

Do better how?

In being more tolerant in this:
1 Corinthians 12:21-22 (KJV)

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

Which gives much frustration when striving to not forsake the assembling of believers, inasmuch as this raises the same question you asked.
How?
As in how does all this Biblical knowledge and God's revealings to a body (bad example) person amidst His Story (get it? history? present included....even these very moments?) Help?
Easy to say! Not so easy in the doing however.
Comes down to love!
Should today's church/es love the enemies of the Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Light?
With these irreconcilable disagreements?
Or? Should we love them enough to send them onto the Most High God?
Who certainly knows how and what to do with 'em?

How many churches have you gone to dressed in rags, and upon entering, are given the "what in the world are YOU doing here?" Look, or perhaps even been spoken to like "We don't appreciate the likes of your kind in attendance here!"

Thankfully, I have never had that experience.
And I wonder if the reaction is somewhat magnified by the person in rags.
What they perceived as negative attention may have been surprise?

I think not.
I had as an personal experience a few years back occasion to be invited to a breakfast held in a mission that housed and treated homeless people and people with drug/alcohol addictions.
The servers of this breakfast, who were volunteers from a local church, had these looks in their eyes while serving with such contemptuousness to those they were serving? As I was one of those.
Well?
Perhaps they didn't wanna to be there. Eh?

There is a the last verse to a song sung by Casting Crowns that further postulates this contemptuousness. Although in the song it's just a "traveler far away from home, sheds his cloak and quietly sits into the back row"
To which this traveler wonders if he wouldn't be better off going on down the road.
As we can see?
This is not an uncommon issue here.

......asking for a friend!

Was there a question that I missed?

Hmmm!

I prayed and asked God several years back. I had been 6 years into retirement as an 18 wheeled (bend in the middle) rock hauling teamster.
As I had gotten tired of doing nothing all day. Week in and week out. Turned into months/years.
To direct me to a place where I could be with people who had come from the "wine, women, and song" party scene, as I had come out of, and to get in some physical activity to this under worked, over fed body of mine.

The answer to this prayer came in spades, so to speak.
I found myself at a church with a MM (motorcycle ministry) chapter. Which also ran a food pantry with a walk in refrigerator and two walk in meat freezers, in their old church building they held service in before expanding onto a 27 acre plot of land where they built a new building which also included a Christian Academy (school) from daycare to 12th grade. And even more then that? An organization that starts up new Christian schools in various parts of the state.
As I am a firm believer in:

Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

As I come from a christian family non-denominational (pre evangelical? Dunno. Really don't matter.) background.
I really wanted to do that which God had led me to. As I had been in heavy heavy Bible studying's from more then a couple of sources.
Figured I could/should do some volunteering to get in some "physical" activity.
And being retired with all the free time that retired folks have?
I dived right in!
Beings I was a driver with a valid license , I found myself volunteering to drive a 3/4 ton van going to various supermarkets to pick up donations for this food pantry with someone else who didn't have a license.
Found myself volunteering to drive a 10 passenger short bus (LOL) to pick up seniors at a local assisted living center. Also picking up special needs people and taking them to church service.
Found myself on a zero turn 54 inch lawnmower helping keep 17 acres of grass (which includes 4 baseball fields, a soccer field, and retention/retention ponds) trim......
In short?
Finding there are more things that a non profit organization has to do then there are people to do 'em.
As well as understanding why some people get burned out from volunteering.