WHY ARE MANY OF US STILL HERE?

[marks]

Circumcision made one a physical Jew and member of Israel. No circumcision = no physical Israel.

Deuteronomy 4:30-31 "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Hi Dave,

When would these latter days be?

And wouldn't they be following a time when Israel had turned away?

Isn't it interesting how Moses says that God will not forget the covenant that God made with their fathers, not with them, not meaning the Siniatic covenant, but a previous covenant.

So what then is the context here? What covenant?

Deut 4
26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Read on . . .

37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.

And will God ever take that back?

Genesis 17:7-8
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

It just seems to me that God knew full well that Israel would disobey, and end up scattered, but that God still means for them to possess the land He gave to their fathers, even for an everlasting possession.

And one say, they will return.

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

I try to never do that

Really? Seriously? Because it sure looks like you've only responded to bits and pieces of my posts.

I would think that as a practical matter this is how we function. Who here addresses every point of every post made?

 

[aspen]

To practice our sanctification

 

[bbyrd009]

Really? Seriously? Because it sure looks like you've only responded to bits and pieces of my posts.

I would think that as a practical matter this is how we function. Who here addresses every point of every post made?

Who here skips entire posts bc they do not like the implications is surely more relevant wadr

 

[marks]

Think for a minute we are the collective temple composed of kings a priests, we inherit the earth etc etc its all spiritual.

But if we're going to make it spiritual, make it all the way spiritual. Let us not fall short in anthing!

Who are the Levites that should receive tithes, and how do we know this from Scripture? Just to pick on simple little law. How are we to "spiritually" keep this law, and where can I read about that in the Bible?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Dave L]

Deuteronomy 4:30-31 "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Hi Dave,

When would these latter days be?

And wouldn't they be following a time when Israel had turned away?

Isn't it interesting how Moses says that God will not forget the covenant that God made with their fathers, not with them, not meaning the Siniatic covenant, but a previous covenant.

So what then is the context here? What covenant?

Deut 4
26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Read on . . .

37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;

38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.

And will God ever take that back?

Genesis 17:7-8
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

It just seems to me that God knew full well that Israel would disobey, and end up scattered, but that God still means for them to possess the land He gave to their fathers, even for an everlasting possession.

And one say, they will return.

Much love!
mark

When are the latter days? The return from Babylon? It can also be the New Covenant era under Christ. Remember "all the promises of God are YES in Jesus. “For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20) (KJV 1900)

 

[bbyrd009]

To practice our sanctification

Ah, for use when, iyo?

 

[Dave L]

Dave this may be true for gentiles coming to Christ but for a direct descendant of Abraham circumcision is a covenantal requirement for them.

Genesis 17:9-14: - 9 And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations/the ages. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations/in the ages, he who is born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not your descendant. 13 He who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money must be circumcised, and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male child, who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."​

Dave I do not see a sunset clause in this covenantal requirement.

“For all the promises of God in him [Jesus] are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20) (KJV 1900)

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Jesus abolished the OT and circumcision on the cross.

No, He did not. He said in John 10:35--"The Scriptures cannot be broken." The Scriptures of which Jesus spoke were obviously the OT since the NT had not yet been written. The very early Church taught extensively from the Septuagint--the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT. Why would they do that, if they believed that Jesus had abolished the OT on the cross?

 

[Enoch111]

There are no unbelieving Jews or members of Israel today. Those who do not believe are frauds claiming tho be Israel.

You are quite mistaken. There are broadly two groups of Jews -- the Sephardim (Sephardic Jews) who descended from the twelve tribes and the Ashkenazim (Ashkenazic Jews) who are primarily from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, and who converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are called proselytes, and as far as other Jews are concerned, proselytes are fully accepted as genuine Jews.

Whatever may have been the original implication of the Hebrew word, it is certain that Biblical authors refer to proselytes, though describing them in paraphrases. Ex. xii. 48 provides for the proselyte's partaking of the paschal lamb, referring to him as a "ger" that is "circumcised." Isa. xiv. 1 mentions converts as "strangers" who shall "cleave to the house of Jacob" (but comp. next verse). Deut. xxiii. 8 (Hebr.) speaks of "one who enters into the assembly of Jacob," and (Deutero-) Isa. lvi. 3-6 enlarges on the attitude of those that joined themselves to Yhwh, "to minister to Him and love His name, to be His servant, keeping the Sabbath from profaning it, and laying hold on His covenant." "Nokri" (ξένος ="stranger") is another equivalent for "proselyte," meaning one who, like Ruth, seeks refuge under the wings of Yhwh (Ruth ii. 11-12; comp. Isa. ii. 2-4, xliv. 5; Jer. iii. 17, iv. 2, xii. 16; Zeph. iii. 9; I Kings viii. 41-43; Ruth i. 16). Probably in almost all these passages "converts" are assumed to be residents of Palestine. They are thus "gerim," but circumcised. In the Priestly Code "ger" would seem to have this meaning throughout. In Esther viii. 17 alone the expression "mityahadim" (= "became Jews") occurs.

BAPTISM – ...Justin, "Apologiæ," i. 65) has the same significance as is implied in telling a proselyte to Judaism, after his bath, that he now belongs to Israel, the people beloved of God (Yeb. 47a; Gerim i.).

proselyte - search - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Dave L]

No, He did not. He said in John 10:35--"The Scriptures cannot be broken." The Scriptures of which Jesus spoke were obviously the OT since the NT had not yet been written. The very early Church taught extensively from the Septuagint--the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT. Why would they do that, if they believed that Jesus had abolished the OT on the cross?

If you think you are under ANY of the OT, you are not following Christ who replaced all of it.

 

[Waiting on him]

But if we're going to make it spiritual, make it all the way spiritual. Let us not fall short in anthing!

Who are the Levites that should receive tithes, and how do we know this from Scripture? Just to pick on simple little law. How are we to "spiritually" keep this law, and where can I read about that in the Bible?

Much love!
Mark

Brother you are the priest. After the order of yours truthfully

 

[aspen]

Ah, for use when, iyo?

Well, loving God and others takes practice - we will need it when God perfects our love and we spend eternity (the eternal present) loving.

 

[marks]

ancient Israeli Civil Code does not, but that is not Decalogue, from which our own Civil Code derives, which you obv must also keep imo, unless you can justify breaking it, which our laws now allow for

What is your justification for subdividing God's covenant made at Mount Horeb with Israel? Considering James state the Law is a single unit, you either keep it or you don't, from what passages of Scripture do we know what parts are for us and what parts are not? If any are.

The Law is given in the Torah, and if you are to keep it, you have to keep all of it, and you can't. It's not even possible anymore.

You don't offer sacrifices. You don't show your sores to the priests. But you do place yourself above the law if you declare that it is to be kept, and yet equally declare you get to decid which parts.

So . . . to avoid that, we need to have the authority of Scripture. So . . . where in the Bible can I read about this? About what parts we have to keep and what parts we don't?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Brother you are the priest. After the order of yours truthfully

I don't receive your bushel baskets. Did you not have a crop this year? No increase to your flocks?

What's up with that?

Oh . . . and where do I read that the tithes are now supposed to go to me? I'll be needing that.

 

[Dave L]

You are quite mistaken. There are broadly two groups of Jews -- the Sephardim (Sephardic Jews) who descended from the twelve tribes and the Ashkenazim (Ashkenazic Jews) who are primarily from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, and who converted to Judaism. Converts to Judaism are called proselytes, and as far as other Jews are concerned, proselytes are fully accepted as genuine Jews.

Whatever may have been the original implication of the Hebrew word, it is certain that Biblical authors refer to proselytes, though describing them in paraphrases. Ex. xii. 48 provides for the proselyte's partaking of the paschal lamb, referring to him as a "ger" that is "circumcised." Isa. xiv. 1 mentions converts as "strangers" who shall "cleave to the house of Jacob" (but comp. next verse). Deut. xxiii. 8 (Hebr.) speaks of "one who enters into the assembly of Jacob," and (Deutero-) Isa. lvi. 3-6 enlarges on the attitude of those that joined themselves to Yhwh, "to minister to Him and love His name, to be His servant, keeping the Sabbath from profaning it, and laying hold on His covenant." "Nokri" (ξένος ="stranger") is another equivalent for "proselyte," meaning one who, like Ruth, seeks refuge under the wings of Yhwh (Ruth ii. 11-12; comp. Isa. ii. 2-4, xliv. 5; Jer. iii. 17, iv. 2, xii. 16; Zeph. iii. 9; I Kings viii. 41-43; Ruth i. 16). Probably in almost all these passages "converts" are assumed to be residents of Palestine. They are thus "gerim," but circumcised. In the Priestly Code "ger" would seem to have this meaning throughout. In Esther viii. 17 alone the expression "mityahadim" (= "became Jews") occurs.

BAPTISM – ...Justin, "Apologiæ," i. 65) has the same significance as is implied in telling a proselyte to Judaism, after his bath, that he now belongs to Israel, the people beloved of God (Yeb. 47a; Gerim i.).

proselyte - search - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Only faith in Christ makes one a biblical Jew and member of Israel. The rest are broken off followers of Satan. They hate you and Christ more than anyone on earth according to their Talmud.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

If you think you are under ANY of the OT, you are not following Christ who replaced all of it.

As Gentiles, the OT is not to us but it is for us.

 

[Waiting on him]

But if a man hates his brother he is a murder. Thall shalt not commit murder. He does it.

 

[Dave L]

As Gentiles, the OT is not to us but it is for us.

The OT was replaced by the NT. We use the Old for instruction and commentary. But we live according to the Two Great Commandments in the NT. If you need to be told not to steal or murder, you are not born again.

 

[marks]

Who here skips entire posts bc they do not like the implications is surely more relevant wadr

You will assume what you want, but don't expect me to be defined by your projections.

Perhaps you think of others as avoiding answering posts they find difficult because this is your style? I don't know. I don't really know you that well.

But I've been on debate forums to know about those who rather than address a point will make some personal comment instead. I quess we go with what we have.

Much love!