Why Civilization Should Defend Zionism

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Wrangler

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My argument is simple, you don’t know who true Israel is thus you don’t know who the house of Judah is.
Your argument is simple - simply subterfuge. From today’s devotional reading.

Ezekiel 47:22

New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

22 You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have begotten children among you. They shall be to you as citizens of Israel; with you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.

Ezekiel 48:14 CJB


14 They shall not sell or exchange any of it; they shall not transfer this choice portion of the land, for it is holy to the Lord.


‘True’ Israel is a ruse.
 

Truthnightmare

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It’s called the Balfour Declaration not Lord Rothschild.

We know you don’t support Zion but you are not able to touch the 6 reasons in the OP that detail why you should.
I know what the document is called! I posted it. The document was formed due to the agreement to bring America into WW2. It was presented at the council of nations to the surprise of everyone.

Let’s me make this easy and put this to an end..

I don’t care how many things you come up with to support Zionism.

I don’t care if they make the best BBQ ribs! I don’t care if they support Captain America and the X-men… I don’t care if they are Chicago Bear fans like me. I am a Christian! All I have is Christ as Lord and savior.

Zionism doesn’t believe Christ is Lord and savior. So get this through your thick scull and ridiculous OP.

Antichrist is your god… Jesus Christ is my God
 
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Wrangler

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I don’t care how many things you come up with to support Zionism.
Unreasonable.
Zionism doesn’t believe Christ is Lord and savior. So get this through your thick scull and ridiculous OP.

Antichrist is your god… Jesus Christ is my God
I see. The OP is not why Christians should support Zion but why civilization should support Zion. See the difference?

To say Zion is anti-Christ is absurd. Christ was a Jew from Israel.
 

Truthnightmare

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You can claim this but the facts show you refer to it as Rothchild not Balfour.
You’re not to bright! I can easily go back and show where I posted it and labeled it the Balfour Declaration long before this I merely referenced Lord Rothschild. Ok at this point I don’t even care reading what you write… And you seem to have some kind of psychological issues going on and I don’t want to contribute to them.. You scream personal attack to much for me.. a sign of a weak lonely beta male. This thread has long died anyhow.. I’m out.
 
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Wrangler

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You’re not to bright! I can easily go back and show where I posted it and labeled it the Balfour Declaration long before this I merely referenced Lord Rothschild.
I see. You were right before you were wrong. Gotcha!

There is no edification to respond to your other personal attacks. You just cannot admit the Right of Conquest does not apply only for Muslims. For some reason, you are fixated on invoking one Strawman argument after the other, denying the Balfour Declaration came from the Conquest of the Ottomon Empire in 1917.

The entire reference to getting the US into WWII and invoking the name Rothchild is just an inflammatory diversion.
 

Truthnightmare

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Unreasonable.

I see. The OP is not why Christians should support Zion but why civilization should support Zion. See the difference?

To say Zion is anti-Christ is absurd. Christ was a Jew from Israel.

Zionism is a political side of Judaism. Judaism rejects Christ, and you believe civilization should support states that reject Christ. Are you even a Christian…
 
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Truthnightmare

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It’s called the Balfour Declaration not Lord Rothschild.

We know you don’t support Zion but you are not able to touch the 6 reasons in the OP that detail why you should.
Are you serious? This has to be some kind of joke.
Your first point was “Zionism is the foundation for western civilization.

Zionism didn’t even begin until the late 1800’s
The USA was founded 1776 a western civilization with a constitution, a bill of rights, and a Declaration of Independence all before 1800.
 
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Wrangler

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Zionism is a political side of Judaism. Judaism rejects Christ, and you believe civilization should support states that reject Christ. Are you even a Christian…
Yes, I am a Christian. There is no political side of Christianity. What's wrong with people of a certain demographic group organizing a government for themselves?

Your Christian litmus test has no validity, no applicability. This is why there is no verse in Scripture that espouses what you do; that we, Christ followers, can only support other Christ followers. In fact, it is ONLY by reaching out and supporting non-Christians might we win them over for Christ.
Matthew 5:40-42
The Voice
40 If someone connives to get your shirt, give him your jacket as well. 41 If someone forces you to walk with him for a mile, walk with him for two instead. 42 If someone asks you for something, give it to him. If someone wants to borrow something from you, do not turn away.

Notice the "someone" is unqualifed, meaning it included non-believers? In fact, the "someone" is most likely NOT a Christian (since forcing and conniving is not the way). Yet, our lord commands us to do things that they (nonbelievers) ask of us. What do you make of this?
 
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Wrangler

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Your first point was “Zionism is the foundation for western civilization.
Not quite. From the OP ...

1. Foundation of Western Civilization

Western Civilization is under relentless attack from the political Left. Education has been replaced with Cultural Marxist indoctrination, leaving our youth ashamed of what little they know about their ancient heritage rather than proud, as they most certainly should be.

Exactly what is Western Civilization is beyond the scope of this paper. So, let’s summarize the roots of Western Civilization. Greek history, literature and language; Roman government and language; British law, language and trade; American ingenuity, and Judeo-Christian religion & ethics.
My 1st point was that Western Civilization is founded on Judeo-Christian religion & ethics.

There would be no Christianity OR salvation if it were not for the Jews.
John 4:22
New Living Translation
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.

What do you make of the fact that - according to the word of God - salvation through the Jews?
 

Truthnightmare

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Not quite. From the OP ...


My 1st point was that Western Civilization is founded on Judeo-Christian religion & ethics.

There would be no Christianity OR salvation if it were not for the Jews.
John 4:22
New Living Translation
22 You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews.

What do you make of the fact that - according to the word of God - salvation through the Jews?
I make of the fact you are on milk, pretending to eat meat.

You present the NLT Bibl, this speaks volumes of your ability to render the word correctly.

The text does not say “salvation comes through the Jews”! The text reads…

ὑμεῖς προσκυνεῖτε ὃ οὐκ οἴδατε· ἡμεῖς προσκυνοῦμεν ὃ οἴδαμεν· ὅτι ἡ σωτηρία ἐκ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἐστίν.

See that word ἐκ,
It is a Greek preposition, and I don’t have time to get you caught up… so here, consider it an early Christmas present.


The word “Jew” in the scripture you presented is
Ἰουδαίων (Ioudaios) this word is translated from one living in the land of Judea or a descendant of the man Judah.

American Wisdom Series Note: Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.

During His lifetime here on earth in His flesh and blood body, no Israelites. even those from the tribe of Judah (which Jesus was), were described as "Jews". That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars. In neither of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew", just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas.

In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in all the recorded history that there is a record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same.

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".
 
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Truthnightmare

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Anyone with eyes to see can follow the Zionist trail.

August 29, 1897: The first Zionist conference is held in Basel, Switzerland. Attended by nearly 200 delegates, the Congress formulates the Basel Program, which remains the basic platform of the Zionist movement. The program defines Zionism's goal as the creation "for the Jewish people of a home in Palestine secured by public law."

Nov. 2, 1917: Britain passes the Balfour Declaration, expressing support for the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. In the previous 40 years, Eastern Europeans immigrated to the region in large numbers. By 1914, Jews living in Palestine grew to 85,000, about 12 percent of the population.

May 6-11, 1942: During World War II the U.S becomes the center of Zionist activity. A conference in New York results in the Biltmore Program, which rejects British restrictions on immigration into Palestine and calls for the fulfillment of the Balfour Declaration urging the establishment of Palestine as a Jewish commonwealth.

Nov. 29, 1947: The United Nations proposes to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem under international control. The U.S. and Russia approve of the plan, but Britain abstains. The Zionist movement - pushing for an independent state - reluctantly accepts the proposal that is denounced by Arab states. Arabs feel that the U.N. has no right to make such a deal.

May 14, 1948: As the British mandate over Palestine expires, Jewish authorities declare a new State of Israel. Many nations recognize the new country under first prime minister David Ben-Gurion. The Arab League declares war and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq engage in fighting with Israel until early 1949, when all parties sign truce agreements that established the borders of the new Jewish state.

1951: Egypt denies Israel access to the Suez Canal and blocks the use of the Strait of Tiran, Israel's only direct access to the Red Sea. Palestinians launch raids on Israeli soil from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

Oct. 29, 1956: Israel invades Egypt's Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. The U.N. brokers a cease-fire agreement and sends in peace-keeping troops.

Jan. 1, 1965: Yasser Arafat's Fatah Movement (founded in 1956)begins armed guerrilla attacks against Israel, which responds with raids against Syria and Jordan. Israeli security zone and border incidents escalate in intensity throughout the year.

June 5, 1967: Egypt had signed an alliance with Syria, Jordan and Iraq, and moved troops into the Sinai in May. In response, Israel launches an immense military strike at Egypt, Jordan and Syria in the Six-Day War, capturing the Gaza Strip, the Sinai, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Golan Heights.

Feb. 26, 1969: Israeli secretary general Golda Meir is elected prime minister.

April 10, 1969: Egypt launches the War of Attrition against Israel along the Suez Canal. The U.S. brokers a cease-fire the next year.

September 1970: Jordan repels an attempt by the Palestine Liberation Organization to grab control of the country.

Sept. 28, 1970: Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser, who always strongly opposed the state of Israel, dies and Anwar al-Sadat is later elected the new president.

Oct. 6, 1973: Sadat fails to negotiate the return of the Sinai to Egypt, and therefore, along with Syria, launches a surprise attack against Israeli positions in the area. Called the Yom Kippur War by Israel and the Ramadan War by Arabs, the fighting ends in late October.

April 11, 1974: Meir resigns following the release of a government report criticizing Israel's lack of preparedness for the Arab strikes the year before. Yitzhak Rabin (pictured) assumes the prime minister position. He is replaced three years later by Menachem Begin.

Nov. 22, 1974: The U.N. recognizes the right for Palestinians to have "statehood and sovereignty."

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Sept. 18, 1978: U.S. President Jimmy Carter hosts Sadat and Begin at Camp David, where the leaders approve the agreements for a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt and for a comprehensive Middle East peace. They sign the accord at the White House March 26, 1979.

Oct. 6, 1981: Muslim extremists, upset with the Egypt-Israel treaty, assassinate Sadat in Cairo.
 
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Truthnightmare

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June 6, 1982: Israeli troops launch Operation Peace for Galilee into southern Lebanon, with the sole purpose of ensuring security for northern Israel and destroying the infrastructure in Lebanon of the PLO, which had staged raids into Israel.

Sept. 14, 1982: Bashir Gemayel, president of Lebanon, is assassinated less than a month after the PLO withdraws its forces form Lebanon.

March 1984: Under pressure from Syria, which held considerable political and military influence in Lebanon, Lebanese president Amin Gemayel nullifies a 1983 peace agreement with Israel. Most of the Israeli forces evacuate Lebanon in 1985, leaving a small force in the south to maintain security along the border.

December 1987: The 7-year-long Palestinian uprising, or intefadeh, begins as an expression of frustration at 20 years of Israeli rule and Jewish settlement in the Occupied Territories. The movement becomes more violent over time as cease-fire attempts continue to fail.

Nov. 15, 1988: Arafat declares Palestine an independent state, acknowledges Israel's right to exist as a nation by accepting U.N. Security Council Resolution 242 - originally adopted in 1967 - and renounces terrorism. The PLO and The U.S. begin formal dialogue and Israel proposes a comprehensive peace initiative in spring 1989.

August 2, 1990: Saddam Hussein's order for an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and the ensuing Gulf War in 1991 suspend efforts to seek an Arab-Israeli peace.

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Sept. 13, 1993: The Oslo negotiations paved the way for the signing of a peace accord between Israel and the PLO. It proposes a Palestinian self-rule to be phased in over several years in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Peres, Rabin and Arafat win the Nobel Peace Prize.

May 4, 1994: Israel and the PLO sign an agreement in Cairo on the final status of Jericho and the Gaza Strip. Israel completes withdrawal of troops from the two regions. The Palestinian Authority led by Arafat assumes civil matters and sets up a Palestinian police force to maintain internal security.

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Oct. 26, 1994: Israeli Prime Minister Rabin and Jordanian King Hussein sign a peace treaty.

Nov. 4, 1995: Israeli ultranationalist student Yigal Amir, who opposes the peace process, assassinates Rabin at a peace rally in Tel Aviv. Shimon Peres, also a major player in the peace process, takes over as Israeli prime minister.

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Nov. 13, 1995: Israeli troops pull out of towns and give the Palestinians autonomy in six cities on the West Bank as part of the Oslo Accords.

Jan. 20, 1996: In their first elections since the formation of Israel almost 50 years earlier, Palestinians elect Arafat as president of the Palestinian Authority. He wins more than 80 percent of the vote.

August 27, 1996: Under Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli government lifts the four-year freeze on Jewish settlement construction in Palestinian territories by giving the go head for the expansion of the Kiryat Sefer Settlement. The building angers Arabs and puts the peace process into a dire situation.

Jan. 16, 1997: After more than 30 years of occupation, Israeli troops withdraw from the West Bank town of Hebron the day after an agreement is signed with the Palestinian Authority.

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Oct. 23, 1998: Arafat and Netanyahu sign the Wye River Accord - a land-for-peace deal involving the West Bank. President Clinton hosts the Middle East Summit at the Wye River Conference Center retreat in Maryland.

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Truthnightmare

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Nov. 16, 1999: Citing Palestinian violations, Netanyahu freezes Israel's implementation of the peace accord and places new conditions on further withdrawals.

May 16, 1999: Ehud Barak defeats sitting prime minister Netanyahu for the top government seat and vows to continue Israel's withdrawal of troops from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

May 1-2, 1999: Mr. Clinton, Barak and Arafat meet in Oslo, Norway and agree to continue with the peace process.

May 25, 2000: Israeli troops conclude their three-day withdrawal from the security occupied zone of southern Lebanon, 18 years after Israel invaded its northern neighbor. Hezbollah guerrillas quickly overrun the Israeli-allied militia.

June 10, 2000: Syrian President Hafez al-Assad dies after three decades of autocratic rule. A renewal of Syria-Israel peace talks hangs in uncertainty as Bashar Assad, the president's oldest surviving son and heir apparent, is handed over the reins of leadership.

July 25, 2000: After 13 days at Camp David Maryland, peace negotiations between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and P.L.O. Chairman Yasser Arafat bartered by U.S. President Bill Clinton breakdown.

September 13, 2000: Deadline for a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestinian question. Arafat statedly intends to forcefully and without agreement establish a permanent Palestinian State within the borders of Israel with Jerusalem as it's Capitol, specifically East Jerusalem including the Temple Mount. War immanent.
 
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Truthnightmare

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Another admission you lost the argument via Ad Homenim.

False dichotomy. Parsing synonyms is in bad form.
Ummmm A Judean is one who lives in the land of Judea… You can be a Jew and live in North Korea, heck I can convert to Judaism tonight and I’m in Alabama… So you struggle with the association of synonyms to… Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you should leave the Greek alone for now.
 
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Truthnightmare

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As the OP points out, the Zionist trail begins with God’s command for Joshua to Conquer Canaan.
Zionist doesn’t equal Israelite.. Do we need to review the writings of the Zionist again.. How is it you support Zionism, and know less than me concerning the aforementioned, but speak from a position of authority… Look… go do some research and get back when you are adequately learned on the topic.

The few New Testament 'proof texts' utilised by Christian Zionists and secular proponents of the modern Judeo-Christian myth are the product of poor translation. Messianic Jewish writer Malcolm Lowe in his paper "Who Are the Ioudaioi?" concludes, like Robert and Mary Coote, that the Greek word "Ioudaioi" in the New Testament should be translated as "Judeans", rather than the more usual "Jews". The Israeli scholar David Stern also came to the same conclusion when translating the Jewish New Testament.

Few Christians are aware that the translators of Scripture often mistranslated the word "Jew" from such words as "Ioudaioi" (meaning from, or being of: as a geographic area, Judean). The word Judean, mistranslated as "Jew" in the New Testament, never possessed a valid religious connotation, but was simply used to identify members of the native population of the geographic area known as Judea.

Also it is important to understand that in the Scriptures, the terms "Israel", "Judah" and "Jew" are not synonymous, nor is the House of Israel synonymous with the House of Judah. The course of history is widely divergent for the peoples properly classified under each of these titles. Accordingly, the authoritative 1980 Jewish Almanac says, "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."

A writer for The Dearborn Independent, published in Michigan back in 1922, summarised the problem thus: "The pulpit has also the mission of liberating the Church from the error that Judah and Israel are synonymous. The reading of the Scriptures which confuse the tribe of Judah with Israel, and which interpret every mention of Israel as signifying the Jews, is at the root of more than one-half the confusion and division traceable in Christian doctrinal statements."

Jesus Christ and the Pharisees The New Testament Gospels reveal an intense conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees, one of the two principal Judean religious sects (see Matthew chapter 3, verse 7; Matthew chapter 5, verse 20; Matthew chapter 23, verses 13-15, 23-29; Mark chapter 8, verse 15; Luke chapter 11, verse 39). Much of this controversy was centred on what was later to become the foundation and highest authority of Judaism, the Talmud. In the time of Jesus Christ, this bore the name of "The Tradition of the Elders" (see Matthew chapter 15, verses 1-9).

The Judean historian Josephus wrote: "What I would now explain is this, that the Pharisees have delivered to the people a great many observances by succession from their fathers, which are not written in the laws of Moses . . ."

While the Pharisees recognized the laws of Moses, they also claimed that there was a great body of oral tradition which was of at least equal authority with the written Law - and many claimed that the Tradition was of greater authority. By their tradition, they undertook to explain and elaborate upon the Law. This was the "Tradition of the Elders", to which the name of Talmud was later given. It had its beginning in Babylon, during the Babylon captivity of the people of Judah, where it developed in the form of the commentaries of various rabbis, undertaking to explain and apply the Law. This was the foundation of Rabbinic Judaism.

This Judaism was very different from the religion of the ancient Israelites. The late Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, who was the Chief Rabbi of the United States, expressed this conclusively when he said: "The return from Babylon, and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, marks the end of Hebrewism, and the beginning of Judaism." The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us that the Talmud is actually "the product of the Palestinian and Babylonian schools" and is generally referred to as "the Babylonian Talmud".

Dr. Boaz Cohen in Everyman's Talmud states the Talmud is the work of "numerous Jewish scholars over a period of some 700 years, roughly speaking, between 200 [B.C.] and 500 [A.D.]."

Rabbi Louis Finkelstein in Volume 1 of The Pharisees, the Sociological Background of their Faith says, "Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes of name, inevitable adaption of custom, and adjustment of Law, the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered."

According to The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol. VIII, (1942) p.474 : "The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud is the largest and most important single member of that literature."

Moshe Menuhim explains that the Babylonian Talmud embodied all the laws and legends, all the history and 'science,' all the theology and folklore, of all the past ages in Jewish life -- a monumental work of consolidation. In the Talmud, Jewish scholarship and idealism found their exclusive outlet and preoccupation all through the ages, all the way up to the era of Enlightenment. It became the principal guide to life and object of study, and it gave Judaism unity, cohesion and resilience throughout the dark ages.

The Talmud, more than any other literature, so defined Judaism that Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser admitted, "Judaism is not the religion of the Bible." (Judaism and the Christian Predicament, 1966, p.159) It is the Talmud that guides the life and spirit of the Jewish people.

"The Talmud is to this day the circulating heart's blood of the Jewish religion. Whatever laws, customs, or ceremonies we [Jews] observe -- whether we are Orthodox, Conservative, Reform or merely spasmodic sentimentalists -- we follow the Talmud. It is our common law." (A History of the Jews, Solomon Grayzel).
 
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