Why cruel design in the animal kingdom?

[Adrift]

WHat is with you guys? WHat's hideous or terrifying about a hawk eating Lunch?

And of course the earth's curse at the fall extended to plants also. How's that go? ...Thorns and thistles shall it also bring forth for you...?

I'm guessing you guys were never hunters? Prolly never even shot a gun? Being a hunter is more about learning the cycle of life which taught me more respect for life.

You guys will go on down and pick up steaks for the grill, and then get on here and bellyache about it isnt fair that we do that, or that hawks do that too? (Lol)

I think both you guys havent thought this through very well.

You are replete with totally false assumptions. The hawk eating lunch is quite terrifying if you are the lunch. I've thought it through for decades. Some people just "John Wayne" their way through life, incapable of empathizing with any pains or fears other than their own.

 

[MA2444]

You are replete with totally false assumptions. The hawk eating lunch is quite terrifying if you are the lunch. I've thought it through for decades. Some people just "John Wayne" their way through life, incapable of empathizing with any pains or fears other than their own.

Ok so your not a hunter. That explains a whole lot.

There's a lot more to hunting than "john Wayne" going out in woods with a machinegun to slughter all the animals he sees so he can have lunch. If that all you see hunting as, then you have a lot to learn about hunting. When I was taught to hunt there was a lot more talk about life than death. So your assumptions of me being incapable of empathy are not even well founded. But I understand...how could you know? Never been a hunter.

I lived in Colorado for 30 years and I went on many a big game hunt and sucessfully. Now you who know nothing of hunting will tell me how I felt towards that Magnificent Mule Deer after I shot him? I'm sorry Brother but that is laughable to me.

I did not drink my first deer kill's blood like they say you should do. I remembered that we are not to drink the blood and we are to let it drain out upon the ground, so that's what I did. And how could you presume to know that I felt no empathy towards the deer? That I didnt thank it for giving it's life to me so my family could eat?

The John Wayne angle is interesting to me and that's something that I still want to do. Go handgun hunting for big game. I've never done that before and it is something that I want to do. So your picture of Fast draw John Wayne wasnt the real picture of the hunting trips.
There's no fast draw in hunting, lol!

Now my Wife would not go hunting. But when I called her and told her that I got a big Mule Deer, she was ecstatic! She helped butcher them, wrap them, grilled steaks, made Jerky and many other things, but she understood the mindset and was happy about all te money that we would save on buying meat. She was so excited that it was like, she went and killed a Deer herself, lol.

And taking my sons hunting and teaching them about it is some...many memories that you terrifyied people will never experience. Just stomping around the Rocky Mountains with my sons was priceless, even the years that we didnt score.

 

[Wrangler]

Actually, if I did it wouldn't change the basis of my concern. If I eat meat it is because I am just another dot in the chain of events that I didn't design.

Nice dodge. You presume to judge God while not taking any responsibility yourself.

 

[MA2444]

You are replete with totally false assumptions. The hawk eating lunch is quite terrifying if you are the lunch. I've thought it through for decades. Some people just "John Wayne" their way through life, incapable of empathizing with any pains or fears other than their own.

Of course it would terrifying for the animal. But it's a little scary in that we could become lunch for other animals...unless we are prepared for that small eventuality.

You want to hear about me in the Rky Mtns hiking (scouting) and walked around a blind curve in the trail and about 10 ft away was a full grown Mtn. Lion. We saw each other at the same time.

Now that big mountain lion give me the old Wild Kingdom snarl which said to me, I'll eat you for lunch! He didnt run away. Care to hear how it turned out?
(The moral of that story is you dont venture into the rocky mountains with a gun, ever.)

 

[O'Darby]

I'm guessing you guys were never hunters? Prolly never even shot a gun? Being a hunter is more about learning the cycle of life which taught me more respect for life.

Oops.

I lived on a ranch. I had a full Rock-Chucker reloading setup in a spare bedroom. I owned, at the same time, 30-06 and .308 rifles, a 12-gauge shotgun, and .45, .44 magnum, .357 magnum, 9 mm, .38 Special and .22 magnum handguns as well as a .44 Navy black powder pistol. Mutiple versions of the handguns, including a custom Colt Python.

My boss at one time was one of the premier outdoor writers in America. He wrote for the American Sportsman TV show and was hunting buddies with Curt Gowdy and Ted Williams. I went hunting with him once. One of the single most disgusting and repulsive experiences of my life. Whatever the bag limit on dove was, he shot triple the limit. That night, he cheerfully popped off the heads like it was fun, virtually orgasmic as he drenched himself in blood. It was beyond weird - it was deeply, deeply sick.

With my first shot, I downed a dove by pure dumb luck. As the poor thing gurgled and died in my hand, I vowed NEVER, EVER AGAIN. I regard hunters as subhuman, a level below abortionists. Downing an elk with a 30-06 has nothing to do with the "cycle of life" or "respect for life."

Since @Adrift is 75, your batting average on guesses today is .000.

 

[Wrangler]

God is a Capitalist. He provides the Capital, the heart of which is competition.

Failure is an option, which motivates. The ultimate competition is life or death and fear is a great motivator.

I find it hilarious that the Left promotes diversity, except the only diversity that matters - diversity of thought. How dare God create Creatures that don’t meet my delicate sensibilities?!

 

[Adrift]

Ok so your not a hunter. That explains a whole lot.

There's a lot more to hunting than "john Wayne" going out in woods with a machinegun to slughter all the animals he sees so he can have lunch. If that all you see hunting as, then you have a lot to learn about hunting. When I was taught to hunt there was a lot more talk about life than death. So your assumptions of me being incapable of empathy are not even well founded. But I understand...how could you know? Never been a hunter.

I lived in Colorado for 30 years and I went on many a big game hunt and sucessfully. Now you who know nothing of hunting will tell me how I felt towards that Magnificent Mule Deer after I shot him? I'm sorry Brother but that is laughable to me.

I did not drink my first deer kill's blood like they say you should do. I remembered that we are not to drink the blood and we are to let it drain out upon the ground, so that's what I did. And how could you presume to know that I felt no empathy towards the deer? That I didnt thank it for giving it's life to me so my family could eat?

The John Wayne angle is interesting to me and that's something that I still want to do. Go handgun hunting for big game. I've never done that before and it is something that I want to do. So your picture of Fast draw John Wayne wasnt the real picture of the hunting trips.
There's no fast draw in hunting, lol!

Now my Wife would not go hunting. But when I called her and told her that I got a big Mule Deer, she was ecstatic! She helped butcher them, wrap them, grilled steaks, made Jerky and many other things, but she understood the mindset and was happy about all te money that we would save on buying meat. She was so excited that it was like, she went and killed a Deer herself, lol.

And taking my sons hunting and teaching them about it is some...many memories that you terrifyied people will never experience. Just stomping around the Rocky Mountains with my sons was priceless, even the years that we didnt score.

You have gotton way off topic. Whether or not somebody hunts has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is beyond people and their personal choices.

 

[Adrift]

Nice dodge. You presume to judge God while not taking any responsibility yourself.

That's illogical. I didn't judge anyone. It was a question regarding motivation. What am I not being resonsible for?

 

[O'Darby]

God is a Capitalist. He provides the Capital, the heart of which is competition.

Failure is an option, which motivates. The ultimate competition is life or death and fear is a great motivator.

I find it hilarious that the Left promotes diversity, except the only diversity that matters - diversity of thought. How dare God create Creatures that don’t meet my delicate sensibilities?!

Perhaps the single most completely inane comment I have ever read on any forum, and that's saying a LOT.

You have gotton way off topic. Whether or not somebody hunts has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is beyond people and their personal choices.

You beat me to it. All of a sudden we're talking about whether you eat meat. the danger animals pose to humans, the merits of hunting, and the dreaded "Left." And this has WHAT to do with the supposed fall of the animal kingdom?

 

[Wrangler]

That's illogical. I didn't judge anyone. It was a question regarding motivation. What am I not being resonsible for?

The motivation for your question, which implies judging God - for starters.

Then, your dodge on eating meat, #2.

 

[Adrift]

The motivation for your question, which implies judging God - for starters.

Then, your dodge on eating meat, #2.

The motivation for your question, which implies judging God - for starters.

Then, your dodge on eating meat, #2.

Your hilarious and fearful position of us not being faithful if we ask questions implies that we are not supposed to ask questions? So, apologetics are worthless and sinful because folks are attempting to validate things that shouldn't be questioned. Funny stuff! Also, eating meat has nothing to do with the proposition.

 

[MA2444]

Oops.

I lived on a ranch. I had a full Rock-Chucker reloading setup in a spare bedroom. I owned, at the same time, 30-06 and .308 rifles, a 12-gauge shotgun, and .45, .44 magnum, .357 magnum, 9 mm, .38 Special and .22 magnum handguns as well as a .44 Navy black powder pistol. Mutiple versions of the handguns, including a custom Colt Python.

My boss at one time was one of the premier outdoor writers in America. He wrote for the American Sportsman TV show and was hunting buddies with Curt Gowdy and Ted Williams. I went hunting with him once. One of the single most disgusting and repulsive experiences of my life. Whatever the bag limit on dove was, he shot triple the limit. That night, he cheerfully popped off the heads like it was fun, virtually orgasmic as he drenched himself in blood. It was beyond weird - it was deeply, deeply sick.

With my first shot, I downed a dove by pure dumb luck. As the poor thing gurgled and died in my hand, I vowed NEVER, EVER AGAIN. I regard hunters as subhuman, a level below abortionists. Downing an elk with a 30-06 has nothing to do with the "cycle of life" or "respect for life."

Since @Adrift is 75, your batting average on guesses today is .000.

But honestly, owning guns does not make one a hunter. Going on one hunt does not make you a hunter. It sounds to me like, you went hunting with Billy Bob and may have had a bad experience because the teacher's were bad.

So did you go home and sell off all your guns? I'm betting no. So if you feel the way you do about it...you're prolly over reacting to the thread and not necessarily the killing of the doves. You spent more time on how sick and weirdo the other hunters were, than you did on empthy to the animal. That's weird.

Downing an elk with a 30-06 has nothing to do with the "cycle of life" or "respect for life."

It most certainly does and if you don't grasp that, then you have a lot to learn about hunters. CHoose different hunting buddies next time and you might even learn something.

 

[O'Darby]

The motivation for your question, which implies judging God - for starters.

Then, your dodge on eating meat, #2.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and confirm it, as the saying goes. For someone who chides others about "very weak logic," you appear to be a candidate for Miss Muffy's Remedial Logic for Toddlers.

In the original post, @Adrift simply asked "I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?" You elevate this, for no reason I can fathom, to an ad hominem attack on Adrift for "judging God." Posing an honest question on a Christian internet forum is "judging God" in your view?

What does eating meat have to do with Adrift's question? If I ate steak twice a day, it would have precisely nothing to do with the fact that the state of the animal kingdom is difficult to square with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. It is you and the others who are dodging, weaving and tap-dancing because you have no convincing answer to the question originally posed by Adrift.

 

[MA2444]

You have gotton way off topic. Whether or not somebody hunts has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is beyond people and their personal choices.

Oh no it isnt! This is exactly the topic. Just admit that you dont hunt and know little if anythig about real hunters. Then your position is invald upon it's face.

Shal I dig out the scripture for you that says, I have given to you all things for meat? I have made all things clean?

Jesus didnt say, but only if the animal doesnt suffer. Killing is a messy business and it gets bloody. I've been up to my elbows in Elk blood. It was a little grusome for sure. But that's the price of hunting.

I never took the shot if I wasnt confident in a one shot kill. That's how I learned. Every animal (big game) that I ever killed was with a single shot. So that the animal does not suffer needessly.
One shot. Every time.

But the blood spilled for those steaks in your freezer from the cattle ranch...Would you like to know how much those animals suffer? They have no one shot rule, lol.

I was there when a buddy of mine was allowed to go one year hunting with us...he did get a deer...But he shot it 12 times! Twelve times! He had to reload twice! I didnt take him again after that, lol.

 

[Wrangler]

Also, eating meat has nothing to do with the proposition.

Eating meat has everything to do with your Appeal to Emotion about a poor bird eating a rabbit.

Regarding apologetics; like God, we are evidently not meeting your expectations. Guess what? God doesn’t mind being in the hook. Regarding his choices; the authoritative reference is the book of Job.

You cannot even take responsibility for judging God!

 

[O'Darby]

But honestly, owning guns does not make one a hunter. Going on one hunt does not make you a hunter. It sounds to me like, you went hunting with Billy Bob and may have had a bad experience because the teacher's were bad.

So did you go home and sell off all your guns? I'm betting no. So if you feel the way you do about it...you're prolly over reacting to the thread and not necessarily the killing of the doves. You spent more time on how sick and weirdo the other hunters were, than you did on empthy to the animal. That's weird.


It most certainly does and if you don't grasp that, then you have a lot to learn about hunters. CHoose different hunting buddies next time and you might even learn something.

Alas, you're still batting .000. I owned all my guns for reasons unrelated to hunting. I did in fact sell every last one them and have not owned a gun for decades. My father-in-law who owned the ranch was an avid hunter and I accompanied him and his friends in the woods a number of times on their deer and elk hunts, which were equally repulsive spectacles. There is something going on in the head of someone who deems hunting a "sport" that, thank God, is not going on inside my head. I repeat: I regard hunters as subhuman, a level below abortionists.

I have a "favorite" story about the hunting mentality. My father-in-law and I owned German Shorthair hounds from the same litter. They waded into a porcupine and came home with a faceful of quills. I loaded mine into the car and drove 90 miles to the vet for the quills to be removed. My father-in-law took a shotgun and blew his away. Just the cycle of life, doncha know.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I can't help but think that sounds somewhat trite. It doesn't change the observation that the animal sufferers are innocent. I don't believe that wild animals are capable of sin, so they shouldn't be culpable.

They're not "Culpable" - they're dinner. BUT HEY!!! I love animals!! Some of 'em are delicious!!

 

[MA2444]

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and confirm it, as the saying goes. For someone who chides others about "very weak logic," you appear to be a candidate for Miss Muffy's Remedial Logic for Toddlers.

In the original post, @Adrift simply asked "I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?" You elevate this, for no reason I can fathom, to an ad hominem attack on Adrift for "judging God." Posing an honest question on a Christian internet forum is "judging God" in your view?

What does eating meat have to do with Adrift's question? If I ate steak twice a day, it would have precisely nothing to do with the fact that the state of the animal kingdom is difficult to square with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. It is you and the others who are dodging, weaving and tap-dancing because you have no convincing answer to the question originally posed by Adrift.

Well the thing is, adrift did sound like He was judging God. I read it that way too. Adrifts poor logic fails to take into account the fall of man and the far reaching damage that sin brought to the world. And all of a sudden, why would God do that? C'mon. Why does he insist that it is somehow Gods fault?

His entire premise is faulty.

 

[O'Darby]

Oh no it isnt! This is exactly the topic. Just admit that you dont hunt and know little if anythig about real hunters. Then your position is invald upon it's face.

Shal I dig out the scripture for you that says, I have given to you all things for meat? I have made all things clean?

Jesus didnt say, but only if the animal doesnt suffer. Killing is a messy business and it gets bloody. I've been up to my elbows in Elk blood. It was a little grusome for sure. But that's the price of hunting.

I never took the shot if I wasnt confident in a one shot kill. That's how I learned. Every animal (big game) that I ever killed was with a single shot. So that the animal does not suffer needessly.
One shot. Every time.

But the blood spilled for those steaks in your freezer from the cattle ranch...Would you like to know how much those animals suffer? They have no one shot rule, lol.

I was there when a buddy of mine was allowed to go one year hunting with us...he did get a deer...But he shot it 12 times! Twelve times! He had to reload twice! I didnt take him again after that, lol.

Are you folks really as clueless as these responses suggest? It's almost jaw-dropping. @Adrift posed a simple question about the seemingly unnecessary cruelty in the animal kingdom ("Nature red in tooth and claw," as Tennyson wrote) and you goofs come out with both barrels blazing in a wacky defense of human hunting. Methinks thou doth protest too much, perhaps?

 

[Wrangler]

Some people just "John Wayne" their way through life, incapable of empathizing with any pains or fears other than their own.

There it is! Doubling down on your Appeal to Emotion.

You are confusing what people are incapable of with their capacity to think past their emotions. Meanwhile, you cannot even answer the question of whether you eat meat.

With @MA2444, you’ve attempted to dodge the hunting question. Why do you think God should justify himself to you, when you are not justifying yourself to us?

I know you are new here and all this begs the question of what do you hope to get out of this online community? What is your story in following Christ?